Spocko weighs in on Melanie Morgan’s layoff
By Josh Richman
Tuesday, March 4th, 2008 at 5:56 pm in General, Media.
San Francisco blogger Spocko, by reposting some of the more controversial sound clips from Melanie Morgan and other KSFO 560 AM personalities, in 2006 convinced several major advertisers to pull their accounts from the station. ABC, which owned the station at the time, in turn convinced Spocko’s Internet hosting company – by threatening it with a copyright-infringement lawsuit – to axe the blog.
Now Melanie Morgan is out of a job, though reportedly it’s about KSFO parent company Citadel Broadcasting’s financial woes and not about any blowback on her rhetoric.
UPDATE @ 6:06 P.M. WEDNESDAY: See my newest posting on this, with comments from KSFO’s marketing director and other info, here.
Spocko, long since back in business on another hosting company, responded to my request for a comment in the wee hours of this morning, but I only just now found it (having been in court and reporting all day on the same-sex marriage issue).
Read Spocko’s thoughts, after the jump…
“KSFO was unable to renew Melanie’s contract because of across-the-board budget cuts mandated by our parent company,” Hmmm, how…emotionless. Of course that is how they will position it because they don’t want anyone to know the real role KSFO’s hosts played in Citadel’s poor financial showing. What do I mean?
At a macro level last year KSFO was in the middle of a 2.7 billion dollar deal where Disney spun out ABC radio station to sell them to Cidadel. The number one source of revenue for the ABC Radio network is advertising. With Disney gone they will no longer have the brand muscle to sell bulk ads or the deep pockets to sustain them from other sources during down times.
During this critical time in the transition Morgan, Rodgers, “Officer Vic” and Brian Sussman made international headlines with their horrific comments. No other ABC Radio station had such high negative publicity during this period. This bad publicity cost them money. A lot of it. They won’t say exactly how many but based on my letters at least 28 advertisers left. Major national advertisers like Visa, Mastercard, Bank of America, In and Out Burger, Borders Books and FedEX pulled their ads. Many advertisers finally decided that this kind of radio is not a safe place to advertise on, especially given the possibly that prior to or following one of their ads one or more of the hosts will joke about:
someone being raped in prison torturing someone burning a person alive blowing someones brains out after being tortured tracking down and killing their critics. Advertisers found out they had alternatives and didn’t need to run the risk of being the corporate sponsor behind the people who joke about electrocuting journalists or calling for the death of millions of Muslims.
What I also want to point out is how active the management was in supporting these horrific comments. Instead of asking the hosts to tone down their violent rhetoric, they decided to embrace those views. How do I know? Well first they deciding to have my blog shut down with a bogus copyright claim and then they threating me with financial ruin. All this rather than asking the hosts to refrain from talking about killing people on the air. Also, Lee Rodgers revealed on the air last fall that the Disney lawyers wanted him to apologize for his comments during the very special 3 hour “Get Spocko” show on January 12th, 2007 but he refused. (I have the clip somewhere if you want to hear) Rodgers could not have done that without the full support of station management. Of course Jack Swanson, Operations Manager,for KSFO who is Morgan’s husband would support them, but only someone as powerful as Mickey Luckoff, President and GM of KGO/KSFO could have made the decision to keep Rodgers, Sussman, “Officer Vic” and Morgan after what they said AND the dozens of lost advertisers they cost the entire station.
I doubt Luckoff paid any price for his decision to embrace the horrific comments by his “hot talk’ hosts. Most likely he will pretend he is a champion of diverse “free speech” rather than a purveyor of violent rhetoric that seeks only to divide and enrage for advertiser gold.
Will The Station’s Story Change? Will Morgan’s?
Positioned as a cost cutting measure Morgan should not be able to play victim and cry about being”silenced by her critics” (although that might stop her). Saying your speech is silenced is always a nice rallying cry that even liberal “platitude free speech” supporters get behind. (As someone who ACTUALLY had a corporation shut down my blog, I know the difference between having your speech silenced and not getting your contract renewed on commercially supported radio.) I like to point out that Morgan’s speech was always a privilege granted to her by the public when she is on the broadcast airwaves. In addition . Morgan spent years viciously attacking liberals, democrats, journalists and anti-war activists like Cindy Sheehan. When I finally alerted advertisers to her horrific comments they pulled their ads. Morgan may cry that she is a victim of censorship from those nasty liberals, yet we had no power to fire her, it was KSFO/KGO management and the advertisers who chose to “silence” her. Morgan has no one to blame but herself for the station losing money when the advertisers chose to go elsewhere rather than be associated with her and her co-hosts.
Blaming it on the parent company avoids taking responsibility for her own role in losing advertisers. And just how horrific were her comments compared to others? Her parent company decided to hire Don Imus! They were willing to back a man known for racist and sexist comments, yet they got rid of Morgan. Perhaps people should note that one way they decided to pay for the multi-million dollar salary of Imus will be by getting rid of hosts who are more repugnant than Imus.
Why Morgan and not Rodgers, Sussman or “Officer Vic”?
It is curious to me that Morgan was the one whose contract was not renewed. Lee Rodgers, “Officer Vic” and Brian Sussman were also responsible for KSFO’s loss of over 28 national and local advertisers in 2007 because of their violent rhetoric and anti-Muslim comments. Yes some advertisers were replaced, but a local ad might not pay as much as a national. Why are they still employed? Perhaps Citadel still sees them as an asset and not a liability. Maybe they are paid less and are cheaper to keep.
Since you are the political and legal affairs reporter you might also want to ask if there was any question about Morgan using KSFO as a cash register for her organization. Morgan blurred the line daily with her endorsement of candidates one second and her begging for money for Move America Forward the next. I did some research into this topic and the one thing that the head of a 501 c 3 is NOT supposed to do is endorse a candidate. She did on more than one occasion. I’m sure she would find some line of reasoning to explain how she was not speaking as the head of MAF but as an ABC Radio employee when she endorsed Fred Thompson (even though her identification as MAF’s head was 10 seconds before her endorsement.)
Since you mentioned Code Pink and the Berkeley Marine recruiting site in your story I will also bring up another area that I was concerned about for some time. If you gather a group of people for the express purpose of “fighting back” against peaceful protesters and someone then is hurt or dies, are the people who used the public air waves to assemble them responsible?
Are the bosses of those people, who are aware of and encourage these activities, responsible? In addition to using KSFO as a cash register for MAF, Morgan used it to verbally attack anti-war activists. On October 8th I wrote to Citadel management about Morgan’s using the public airwaves to gather a bunch of people for the express purpose of a “show down” at “high noon” and asked them if someone is seriously injured at a MAF/Gathering Of Eagles event that was promoted on their station by their employees, who do they think was going to be financially libel?
I spoke to the Code Pink leader in Berkeley after the October 17th MAF counter protest in Berkeley. She told me that during the “show down” at “high noon” (Morgan’s words) someone from Morgan’s camp pulled a knife and slashed the cord to Medea Benjamin’s microphone. I asked them to file a police report for future reference, but I’m not sure anyone did.
I fully expect Morgan to pop up again in some other venue. I’d like to hope that her brand of vitriol will not find decent corporate sponsors in the future. Maybe a Scaife funded “think tank” will snap her up and she won’t have to worry about disgusting her sponsors or rabid fans.
As I said in my last post before the “Get Spocko” show, their time is over.
From now on, for the rest of this station’s time in this format and Morgan’s time in the public eye they will always be “that station” and “that woman” and a little asterisk* will be next to their name in computers of the hard working media buyers and savvy ad agency’s around the world to tell them, “Be careful who you put on This Station. Be careful who you use to read your product promos. Don’t associate your brand with them, it is bad for the brand.”
LLAP
Spocko
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March 5th, 2008 at 9:17 am
[...] Spocko weighs in on Melanie Morgan’s layoff [...]
March 5th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Josh: Really, did you think it newsworthy to post the entire rant by Spocko? It’s ironic that you even cited him at all, because it was not Melanie Morgan who Spocko chronicled as the most colorful talk show host, but Lee Rodgers and Brian Sussman.
So, assuming you live in Spocko’s ego-driven fantasy world, then the talent that would have been let go would have been one who was cited by Spocko as being one of the worst offenders.
As it is, KSFO’s ratings have risen, and the Lee Rodgers and Melanie Morgan Show is the power behind the station.
People like Spocko hate that fact.
They also demonstrate that they are unable to come to grips with the fact that Melanie was a casualty because her contract was up at the end of March.
It’s just as simple as that, and it does a dishonor to Melanie and the KSFO team to suggest that ad revenue or ratings are weak.
Neither is true.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:11 am
And P.S. I’ll never respect someone who lives in anonymity yet seeks to speak as a public figure.
Melanie Morgan stands behind her words and actions - proudly and honorably. She’s won the Associated Press Mark Twain Journalism award among a host of other journalist awards.
Spock stands behind a pseudonym while roaming the dark reaches of the world of radical far-left political ideology.
Plenty of mainstream corporate sponsors have associated themselves with The Lee Rodgers & Melanie Morgan Show.
How many have chosen to associate themselves with Spocko’s Blog?
Talk about an asterik by the name.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Yes, Joe, I thought I was newsworthy to post Spocko’s comments in their entirety; Google his handle and Melanie’s name, and you’ll easily see why… but I’m sure you already know that.
Spocko says he has strived to maintain his anonymity for fear of reprisals from Melanie’s supporters; readers can take that however they please.
As we’re big on standing behind our words, let’s note that Joe W. is Move America Forward’s spokesman and grassroots coordinator; he’s also a principal at the Sacramento campaign and PR firm Russo Marsh & Rogers, which has been closely intertwined with MAF (through cofounder Sal Russo) from the start.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
It should also be noted, that if someone is making a company money, that person’s contract will be renewed. As a victum of cost cuts, that is just proof she was not considered to be making the company any money or enough money and when they had a chance without penalty, to let the contract go, they did.
March 5th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Yes, Josh, and I put my name, email address and website address in the post, as I certainly DO stand behind my words.
I’m sorry, but since there is no evidence to suggest that KSFO’s actions regarding Melanie had anything to do with the campaign Spocko waged against the station, posting his multi-hundred word rant against KSFO and Melanie Morgan doesn’t seem like news to me.
By posting his rant, it suggests that the action by Citadel was somehow tied to Spocko’s left-wing campaign against the station. Again, there’s nothing to substantiate that claim except for Spocko’s ego and imagination.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
“And P.S. I’ll never respect someone who lives in anonymity yet seeks to speak as a public figure.”
I ran a business in the 1980’s and my customers all knew me and could even call me at home. Later I discovered that two of them were murderers, one who did prison time and one who was only convicted in civil court. I decided at that point to be very cautious about my identity.
Considering who Spocko is dealing with, I think it makes perfect sense to take basic precautions when dealing with the cesspool that is the Internet.
In any event, statement like Joe W.’s is a typical ex-post-facto right-wing attempt at invalidation. Like insisting someone ought to have worn a flag lapel AFTER they didn’t wear it (typically while not wearing a flag lapel oneself).
And if Spocko revealed his name was John Doe, what would that prove? How would we know that’s really his name? How do we know Spocko ISN’T really his name? For that matter, how do we know Joe’s name is really Joe? And why doesn’t cowardly Joe post his full last name and home address in is post?
Finally, Spocko could post his life story to the Internet and he still would not have Joe’s “respect.” Joe is an idealogue, and thus is incapable of respecting anyone who doesn’t cowtow to his ideology.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
You know, maybe I’m not the brightest bulb or something, but it seems to me that the fact that you posted Spocko’s statement would kinda show you thought it was worth posting. The fact you asked for it would seem, to my no doubt addled liberal brain, to indicate you wanted to hear it. Why is it I can figure that out and Joe W couldn’t?
Anbd it sounds like Joe is a bit touchy about management feeling Morgan was the least valuable person there. I geuess even I can see why that would be; it must hurt to be tied to the loser of the bunch.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
I just wanted to say that the companies who woke up and removed their advertising are the kind of companies that we need in our communities.
The response of these talk shows and ABC with their fatuous “apology” and victim ranting was grating to listen to. You do not have the right to advocate violence and terrorism on the airwaves of this country and they certainly do not have the right to shut down someone’s website for letting their advertisers know what was going on.
This woman hinted that the speaker of the house for our country should be shot and that journalists should be hanged for letting us know our country was breaking the law. The owners of this station did the right thing. I think that they can find some republicans who understand freedom and who are true patriots instead of partisan hacks who cry and cry then get thier lawyers.
Nice write up I will have to bookmark.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Excellent reporting. I am eager for the day when hate mongers no longer inhabit our public airwaves. It reminds me of “Orwell’s 1984″ where big brother gave them 3 minutes of hate so they would not hate Big Brother but direct their hate onto Big Brother’s opponents. Same thing the right wing does , just hate, hate, hate all the time. It is all they do, spread hate and disinformation.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
So Joe, if Spocko is so far off the mark, why bother to leave a post? Seems to me like your response to his “rant” would indicate that maybe he was closer to the truth than you found comfortable.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Hey, Joe? Put a sock in it.
When cheap labor-conservative hate-mongers reap the rewards of THEIR OWN bad behavior, I haven’t got a tear to shed for ‘em. What happened to all the the “Party of Personal Responsibility” hogwash, huh?
And whatever may be “suggested” here by posting Spocko’s words, you might just want to remember that this is a BLOG, not corporate media…and there’s still free speech in this country, despite everything that the radical right has done to suppress it.
March 5th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Josh, thanks for including Spocko’s response to the Morgan layoff.
As a major league media junkie, I’d say Spocko’s perspective is a very important part of this story. I was travelling in the Philippines during the 3-hour special brouhaha last year and made a special point of finding an Internet cafe and listening in while reading blog updates about the situation. I had heard Morgan and Sussman’s hateful diatribes many times, and was always astonished at how much they got away with. I found Spocko’s response to be reasonable at first, and later courageous.
I was startled to read about Morgan’s layoff on Monday evening, as I had caught part of her morning broadcast that day. It was yet another steaming cup o’ hate, with Morgan offering plenty of slurred-speech rhetoric and cackling laughter at the bigoted comments of her colleagues.
In some cases, far right extremist talk show hosts can be kind of entertaining, or at least fascinating in a sociological-experimental way. Former talk show host Melanie Morgan never fulfilled that qualification, however. She may have been good at hate, but she certainly sucked at radio.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
She is one of the most vile, rude, brainwashed and disgusting “pundits” I have ever heard (that’s hard to achieve). I cringe at any interview I have heard and cannot imagine why anyone would keep her in their employ.
So, whoever Spocko is, thank you.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Dear Mr. W.,
If we are to accept your statement that Spocko had nothing to do with Melanie Morgan’s contract not being renewed, we must not overlook your own words. As you said previously…
“…KSFO’s ratings have risen, and the Lee Rodgers and Melanie Morgan Show is the power behind the station.”
…it is illogical that they would not renew her contract, or at very least indicative of an unwillingness to profit from her demogogery.
Your posts are mere denials that Spocko had anything to do with Ms. Morgan’s dismissal when she was the, “power behind the station.” You haven’t told us why they really canned her, which leaves the matter up to pure speculation.
Were station interns being hospitalized from overexposure to testosterone? Was the void inside her skull running up their electric bill by draining power from the station’s broadcast antennae? Were the bloodless, withered corpses of children and kittens piling up near their dumpster beginning to be a problem? Pray thee, tell us what really happened! Lest unsupported, malicious, and perhaps even ironic propaganda about her dismissal fill the airwaves…
P.S. Is it alright to say, “wanker,” in this forum…?
March 5th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
BTW, since Morgan supposedly stands by her words, why did she make such a fuss about Spocko printing those words for an audience wider than her rabid fans?
March 5th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
And I’m sure Joe, there is nothing you’d like more than for folks to believe than Spocko’s actions had no affect at all on KSFO or Melanie.
Who’s living in a fantasy world??
You’d also love to know who Spocko actually is so you could do what you guys do best, ATTACK RUIN & DESTROY.
Thats your M.O. right Joe??
March 5th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
“It’s just as simple as that, and it does a dishonor to Melanie and the KSFO team to suggest that ad revenue or ratings are weak.”
You cannot dishonor someone who has none to begin with.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Um, Joe W., stop being such a baby.
And how do you exactly “stand by your words”? By actually tracking down folks and kicking their ass?
Please don’t breed.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Um…..Joe….thou protest too much. Tone down the flack stuff a little next time.
March 5th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Joe says, “Melanie Morgan stands behind her words and actions - proudly and honorably.”
How does standing behind words of vile, sputtering hatred equal pride and honor?
March 5th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Melanie Morgan is a HERO. Though neither you, nor other socialist libs, will ever know the meaning of that term HERO.
She is a true patriot and loves this Country very much. That’s another major difference between you, the other libs and Melanie. You all HATE this Country.
Melanie…you’re the BEST and there are many folks like me in the Bay Area who appreciate all that you’ve done for the conservative cause and hope you’ll continue to do.
RS
March 6th, 2008 at 7:56 am
From the Russo Marsh & Rogers website:
Joe Wierzbicki
Joe Wierzbicki brings a wealth of experience in public relations, public affairs and marketing to Russo Marsh + Rogers, Inc.
Mr. Wierzbicki places a special focus on the initial strategic planning of campaigns for RM+R’s clients. He recognizes that the game plan laid out in the early stages of a public relations campaign is crucial to the long-term success. Creativity and innovative thinking are hallmarks of Mr. Wierzbicki’s approach to seizing opportunities and making the most of them.
Businesses sometimes experience rough patches that they need help with, and Mr. Wierzbicki’s extensive experience and illustrious background enables him to assist corporations and organizations with damage-control efforts. While serving at Fleishman Hilliard as a public relations counselor, he also helped plot image-rebuilding efforts for companies and other entities that were recipients of negative media coverage and public scrutiny.
Mr. Wierzbicki spent several years helping advance the interests of corporate clients, non-profit organizations as well as political candidates and committees. He embraced use of the Internet several years ago as an excellent means to communicate to targeted audiences as well as to build effective grassroots coalitions.
Mr. Wierzbicki has also worked on retail accounts with a special emphasis on corporate image branding and customer loyalty programs at RH Macy & Company’s Bullock’s unit as well as other retailers.
HEY JOEY! Isn’t Mel’s failure to survive in our capitalist system one of those “rough patches” that your clients “sometimes” must endure?
C’mon Joey, we’re all friends here. Fess up. Tell us how you’re going to spin Mel’s failure in the Adam Smith marketplace to her advantage.
March 6th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Isn’t HERO a sandwich? I know Dagwood tried to steal the name back in the day, but MY addled Liberal brain remembers the HERO sandwich.
March 6th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Spocko’s campaign cost KSFO a half a mil in lost ad money.
So I think he’s a good “go-to” guy on this subject.
March 7th, 2008 at 12:54 am
Rob S., from March 5th, 2008 at 9:54 pm, above…
…proves Mark Twain’s statement that it is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and dispell all doubt.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Very interesting. I’d be interested in knowing the names of the adverstiers who pulled their ads from KSFO. They would not be firms I would do business with.
I find it very interesting reading about “hate speech.” It appears to me that the definition of hate speech is speech that the hearer disagreees with. It is like saying someone who expresses an opinion is telling lies, when the opinion does not fit the believe system of the hearer. That being said, there are many things I’ve heard on KSFO that I disagree with - Lee is not a man of weak opinions, and neither is (was) Mel.
March 8th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Contrary to what what Rob S. says, liberals love this country. And it was founded by progressives, who wanted to start a new form of government.
Why do conservatives like Rob S. say liberals hate the country? Because we point out flaws, because we want it to be the best, and because we deeply care. Caring is not about waving a flag or marching in lockstep with leaders.
The founding fathers said that if the government fails to meet the needs of the people, it should be overthrown and replaced. Are they unpatriotic?
People like Rob S. are sad little people who need to belong to a winning team, to belong, to confirm ignorance. That is the key behind right-wing talk radio. Sussman himself says so nearly every night, when he tells his audience. “You don’t have time to do research. You don’t have time to look all this up. I’m here to tell you what you need to know.” Then he panders to every caller who parrots his opinion (well, not his opinion. He gets his talking points sent every day. It’s amazing to hear just how much he, and Hannity, and Rush sound alike, even using the same phrasing. But I digress…)
Listen to Air America, and the hosts practically demand that you go out and get informed. They want their audience to think–not parrot.
As to hate speech cited by Lou Charles. This is again another right-wing tactic. There is a difference between an opinion, and hate mongering. And when someone is telling lies, they are. It isn’t disagreement of opinion, is it distorting facts.
Once I heard a caller tell Sussman that we should send bombs into every mosque in Iran during evening prayer, because “We know where they’ll be, and we can just wipe them all out.” Rather than point out this was genocide, Sussman said that was one way of handling it. When I called his screener, Eric Santos, and said the caller just advocated wiping out millions of men, women and children, Santos said “Everyone has their own opinion.”
So advocating genocide just an opinion? Interesting. Who shared that opinion in the last 100 years?
This is so typical of the right wing. When they get caught in their lies, they squeal like Ned Beatty on a camping trip. I would love to hear an actual reasoned argument from these people sometime. But they hide behind their microphones, able to cut people off anytime, and with the benefit of having the callers screened before hand.
There is someone on the web who has an open invitation to debate Sussman at anytime. He, like the other right-wing commentators won’t, because they know in a reasoned debate, they will lose. Al Franken mopped the floor with Ann Coulter, to the point it was painful to watch. Hannity, to his credit, did offer to debate Dennis Kusinich, with the money going to charity.
Finally, Joe W. and other’s griping about Spocko being anonymous. This is attacking the messenger, not the message, another right-wing tactic. Writing under a pseudonym has long tradition. James Madison, writing under the pseudonym “Publius,” authored twenty-nine of the eighty-five Federalist papers essays. And, as the Website from the Miller Center for Public Affairs says “He argued the case for a strong central government subject to an extensive system of checks and balances wherein “ambition” would be counteracted by competing ambition.”
So the argument that having an opinion, or taking action, is only valid under one’s own name, is horseshit, and thrown out to distract from the real issue.
And, simply having a strong opinion doesn’t make someone an admirable person. Being steadfastly loud, mean and stupid doesn’t give you cred. Well, I don’t give it cred, but a lot of right-wingers, desperate to be told what to do, desperate for a leader, desperate to be patted on the back and be part of a winning-team, gravitate toward this.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Love the euphemisms by apologists here: “not a man of weak opinions”, “colorful”. Yes, they were just “expressing opinions”. Which makes me wonder again why they were so put out when someone merely printed those “colorful”, “non-weak” “opinions” so a wider audience could see them?
March 8th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
I would tend to agree with Jim Moore - it appears that KSFO over reacted to Spocko. However in doing considerable research, it appears Spocko was less than honest in what he posted or sent to advertisers - he took quotes out of context and/or truncated quotes. In both situations his editing greatly changed the meanings. Further in looking at the claims of lost advertisers, Spocko has greatly overstated his case. ATT is a current advertiser, and I’m relatively sure that Visa and/or Master Card are also on KSFO.
A little history about Mel and KSFO - this is not the first time she has not had a contract not renewed - it also happened about 5 years ago, and she came back then. So I would caution those who despise her to hold off on a victory dance.
Also a jab at Josh Rickman. She was not “canned” as the headline stated. Being “canned” or fired refers to an at-will employee being terminated for cause, or a contract employee having the contract cancelled for cause. Saying she was “canned” has an emotional connotation that probably was not accidental.
March 8th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
So, Lou, care to share with us an example of how Spocko truncated a quote and thus changed its meaning? Or how an example of a quote he shared had its meaning altered by being taken out of context? Its an easy claim to make, can you back it up?
March 9th, 2008 at 1:09 am
Lou,
Care to post any of this research? How were the quotes taken out of context?
I do despise Melanine, and I will dance until she surfaces from whatever moldy rock she’s under.
You have a point about using “canned.” She was not technically fired. So even if management was planning on firing her (which we don’t know, and I frankly doubt they were), but realized that it would be just as easy to let her contract run out, she was not “canned.”
I agree it was probably used because it is a charged word.
March 9th, 2008 at 1:15 am
if melanie’s pr person is correct, and the shows ratings were indeed up….why not renew her contract? could only be because revenues were down. revenues go down when the amount that can be charged per ad minute goes down.
that cannot happen if ratings go up.
spocko did his job.
morgan is out of a job.
wonder how she will pay for anymore plastic surgery?
March 9th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Lou,
Also, would you be willing to admit that Melanie, Sussman, Barbara Simpson, Lee et. at. make their living using charged words, or similar distortions of facts?
March 10th, 2008 at 6:08 am
I note that liberals are always against something. If I am wrong, please list what liberals stand for. I will start the list as I see it - for high taxes, for nanny state government, for no responsibility, for no accountability, for high unemployment, for fabricated crises, for a bad economy, for freedom of speech but only for themselves. What else?
March 10th, 2008 at 7:21 am
Melanie Morgan is an honorable American, expressing the mainstream view in flyover country, which is most of the USA, and most of the folks in the USA. Which is to say the left coast and the other left coast are very much alone and in the minority, although locally in Berkely and the Bay Area, they are a temporary majority.
Somehow you put her in the same category as those that advocate the killing of million of Muslims per your article. That is quite a connection (er, stretch).
After all of Western Europe, Russia, England, Eastern Europe, Canada, Southeast Asia, and large sections of Central and South America are demographically at first, violently later, ovurrun by Islamists on or before 2100, with Holland and France tipping over as soon as 2030, will the USA be able to survive alone with all of the Islamists and Islamist apologists we have int he USA, plus the total ignorance of Islam, the religion of Submission, that most folks have? The USA has a tremendous probability of becoming an Islamist country like Lebanon, in whole or in part, on or before 2100. Let me suggest that that will be very bad for evey one in the Bay area. Remember we are the Great Satan, and Osama has a Fatwa to kill 10 million of us in a nuclear fire or any other way he can.
Melanie has taken on one group of Anti-Americans, the Anti-Americans of Code Pink and other US Military despisers. Don’t mix her in with other folks that she has not, at least publicly, allied herself with.
March 10th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
I have listened to Mel, Lee, OV and Brian for years. Have never heard the hate speech you speak of. Their concern is that the country will be attacked again. Repeated attacks have been made against Americans for years, beginning with the Beiut massacre of our Marine base in Lebanon. No one has done anything about it. If we had, perhaps we would not be where we are today. Peace can only come from a strong defense. Conservative talkers want people to stay alert - only care about safety of USA. Bush is keeping war out of US and thus protecting all of us, even you. It is the #1 priority of the president to “protect the people.”
March 11th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
Spekkyboy Says: “… Because we point out flaws, because we want it to be the best, and because we deeply care….”
I could easily call this implied hate speech since the implication is conservatives do not care nor do they want the country to be the best. But the implication of Spekkyboy are precisely why we get into rhetorical controversy of hate speech and opinion.
I believe that Spekkyboy truly believes that his opinion is correct. But it is just as easy for Melanie to say “Conservatives point out flaws, because we want this country to be the best, and we deeply care.”
We all have our opinions as to what is best for the country and what the counties flaws are. Define ‘best.’ Define ‘flaws.’
The term ‘hate speech’ gets tossed around to put down someone, usually someone that holds a different worldview. True hate speech is when the speaker has the ability to carry out or to incite others to carry out criminal acts against a person or group of persons based on race, religion, gender or sexual orientation.
An example:
Eliott Spitzer, aka Client 9, deserves to get womped real hard.
Some would call this hate speech since I’m advocating physical harm to a public official. This is my opinion based on my worldview – a man who cheats on his wife by using the services of a high priced whore deserves to be womped. (No jokes that he might like to be womped.)
It would be a dull world if there were no disagreements. That’s why partisanship is good.
I’ll respond to other questions later.
March 11th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Spekkyboy Says:
March 9th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Lou,
Also, would you be willing to admit that Melanie, Sussman, Barbara Simpson, Lee et. at. make their living using charged words, or similar distortions of facts?
Spekkyboy - please explain how charged words are equal to ’similar distortion of facts.’
If you would have ended your sentence with a period after ‘charged words’ I would have agreed. And so do the Air Amercia crowd, and Keith Oberman and Alan Combs and other liberals. I love it.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:29 am
The KSFO crowd regularly distorts facts.
They are too numerous to list in entirety. But for the sake of argument, let’s talk about how they are handling Obama.
They are claiming he is a Muslim. Sussman doesn’t come right out and say this, but implies it every night.
They also spread the FALSE accounts of what he did or did not do saying the pledge of allegiance, when singing the national anthem, etc. Go to Snopes.com, and read the facts. They do not jive with what Morgan, Lee, Sussman, Dr. History (another right-wing jerk and Sussman toady) put out every night.
Then their is the discussion about his middle name. They point to his middle name being “hussain” as a way to fire up the idiot audience, or that it has some ties to a Muslim heritage. A Muslim heritage that he will be devoted to (even though he is a Christian).
There are the distortion of facts. Other time, they just make shit up.
Name me one time then Olbermann distorted facts. Anytime he has made a mistake, he has corrected himself.
Alan Combs? Please.
Melanie didn’t point out flaws. Her job, as she said herself, was to be an instigator. She just wanted to stir shit up. And she did have the power to incite criminal behavior. So does the rest of the crowd. Hate crimes are up all over the country. Attacks against Muslims and Latinos are on the rise, and it is a result of the bombast spewed by Morgan, Sussman and their ilk. That is hate speech.
As for the comments by Fred Wilson–either throttle back or up the meds, dude. You’re buying the KSFO bullshit about Islam. Be afraid!
And as long as we’re talking about terrorism–was McVey a terrorist? He was a God fearing Christian who wanted to kill Americans. What about those who fire bomb abortion clinics? Those who shot doctors were Christians, not Muslims.
Frankly, God is the big problem here, but that’s another discussion.
“Liberals are always against something?” Hey Robert, how about I’m for the Constitution. I’m for keeping jobs in America and not outsourcing. I’m for universal health care and a minimum standard of living that other industrialized countries seem to be able to pull off. If we’re the best country in the world, and I think we are, why can’t we do what a lot of the rest of the world is capable of.
“Liberals are alway against something?” Jeez, dude, try to form a thought that isn’t off a bumper sticker.
I’ll end with a quote from John Stuart Mill:
“Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)
March 14th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
>Robert S Says:
liberals stand for…for fabricated crises
Oh Robert, thanks for the laugh!
4000+ US soldiers and all those dead Iraquis send their thanks, as well!
March 14th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Spekkyboy - as long as you resort to ad hominems there is no discussion. Apparently you believe that only your kind has any truth. Your quote from Mill is illustrative - typical elitist.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
For anyone who cares, you might be interested in the Mill’s quote in context:
What I stated was, that the Conservative Party was, by the law of its constitution, necessarily the stupidest party. Now, I do not retract that assertion; but I did not mean to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. (Public and Parliamentary Speeches, 31 May 1866, pp. 85-86.)
March 15th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
It’s always fun to observe wingnuts’ pretzel logic as they attempt to defend the indefensible. To wit:
Fredrick P Wilson Says:
Melanie has taken on one group of Anti-Americans, the Anti-Americans of Code Pink and other US Military despisers. Don’t mix her in with other folks that she has not, at least publicly, allied herself with.
Two comments later Fredrick P Wilson Says:
“Spekkyboy Says: “… Because we point out flaws, because we want it to be the best, and because we deeply care….”
I could easily call this implied hate speech since the implication is conservatives do not care nor do they want the country to be the best. But the implication of Spekkyboy are precisely why we get into rhetorical controversy of hate speech and opinion.”
First, I’m just not getting the “hate speech” reference regarding Spekkyboy’s comment. A sentiment that should be the goal of every American citizen is characterized as “hate speech” while a comment that overtly labels concerned American citizens “Anti-American” is ignored.
And what is Lou Charles trying to accomplish by attempting to ameliorate Spekkyboy’s quotation of John Stuart Mill?
Lou’s fuller quote does nothing to change the meaning.
And finally, Lou, I do not think ad hominem means what you think it means.
Oh, alright. One more thing. Spocko rawks!
March 16th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Lou,
Thanks for the complete quote. As Peteruegene mentions, it only makes the point better. What could be more clear than, “I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.” (Mill)
Mill was right then, and it fits now. Generally, stupid people are conservative.
And by the way, Lou, what do you mean by elite? I am self-employed, and when I check the little box on the form that asks how much I earn, it isn’t the “$100,000 or more box.” I have a 10 year old used car that runs great, don’t buy a lot of stuff (except books–maybe reading makes me “elite”), and live well on what would be considered meager earning. Nor do I wield any power beyond my vote and my small voice clacking away on the keys. I am less elite than Lee, Sussman, and the Melanie.
This is typical of the right. They throw around accusations like “elite” without knowing what it truly means.
So Lou, here’s your chance: why am I part of the “elite”?
Do you know? Or is it something you parrot because Rushbo and Mel and Lee say it?
March 16th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Spekkyboy - Sorry to burst your bubble - the elite I was referring to JS Mill, and if you read much about him you know that he was an elitist. Self proclaimed elitist and proud of it.
He also lived in England in 1866. You will have a difficult time equating what was “Conservative Party” member in 1866 to today. The quote is only meaningful to you since the term conservative is used. Now if it is your opinion that consevatives are stupid, why are you even responding to stupid people? After all, aren’t we hopeless?
petereugene - I’m a little insulted. A comment I made you attributed to another.
No one has answered this question: Why can’t a conservative say “Because we point out flaws, because we want it to be the best, and because we deeply care…” The implication is that only “progressives” really care. That is a crock.
I do know what ad hominem and there is too much of it in these discussions. I have tried not to paint with a broad brush - the Mills quote is VERY elitist in that regard. We have different worldviews, but does that mean we can’t try to understand the other side? I learn more about what I beleive from reading opposing views.
March 20th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
I would tend to agree with Jim Moore - it appears that KSFO over reacted to Spocko.
Wow Lou Charles, just stopped in to see what other comments had been made on this post and yours has got to be the biggest lack of understanding of another’s position I’ve ever seen. Where on earth did you get the idea that I’d said anything remotely like what you read? I mean, reconnect your brain — they come connected, but yours must have rattled loose somewhere along the way. KSFO certainly did not overreact; if anything, they shouldn’t have needed any push to pull the plug on those hatemongers, even when they were making money for the station. Of course, once Spocko pointed out to people what the advertisers were associating themselves with, and the advertisers finally realised that maybe, just maybe, associating themselves with hatemongers wasn’t the best commercial move they’d ever made, and once they pulled their ads and the station realised, not out of any sense of decency but just coldly commercially, that maybe pushing hate on the air wasn’t a good move… well, they hardly overreacted. I am so glad that Spocko delivered their words to a wider audience; I’m just “surprised” (helpful ironic quotes for people like Lou who are a little slow on the uptake) that Morgan et al. were so against Spocko doing it since they claim to “stand by their words”. Seems they don’t stand by them, but instead over by the nearest exit to run for cover once people other than their rabid fans see their words. (You’ll notice no ironic quotes around the word rabid; that’s intentional.)
March 21st, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Lou,
What was the big fear of the Conservatives in 1866?
Working class voters.
On one side you have the conservative Benjamin Disreali (the PM was the Earl of Derby, but Disreali was the better statesman, and was probably calling the shots. Sort of like Bush and Cheney). On the other side, William Gladstone, liberal. The big question was voter reform, and whether or not to extend it to more people (well, more men people, anyway).
From the BBC Website:
“The [Reform]Act extended the vote to all adult male householders (and lodgers paying £10 rental or more, resident for a year or more) living in a borough constituency. Simply put, it created more than 1.5 million new voters. Versions of the Reform Act had been under serious discussion since 1860, but had always foundered on Conservative fears. Many considered it a ‘revolutionary’ move that would create a majority of ‘working class’ voters for the first time.”
The Conservative didn’t like the idea of workers voting, but Disreali, to his credit, and seeing the writing on the wall, pushed the Reform Act through because he didn’t want the Conservative party labeled “anti-reform”, even though most of them were.
So yes, England in 1866 is different than America now, but, then as now, there is still a battle between those who want progress, and those who want to keep power limited to those they think should rightly have it: the true elite class.
Both Disreali and Gladstone got their shot at PM. They disagreed on almost everything, and were antagonistic through their lives.
Fun facts: Disreali and Gladstone are pictured as the Lion and the Unicorn in “Through the Looking Glass.” This was a joke by illustrator John Tenniel.
Other fun fact: Gladstone liked prostitutes, and often brought them back to 10 Downing Street. Even though more there was more respect for privacy back then, Gladstone’s colleagues nonetheless felt they had to explain this as “rescue work” to save “fallen women.”
Spitzer and Sen.Why-Is-He-Still-In-Office Vitter should have used this excuse.
Also, I never implied conservatives don’t care about the country, Louster. I wrote that to counter the what the frothing Rob S. posted (#22):”liberals HATE this country.”
By the way, you still haven’t defined what you mean by “elitist.” My guess is that it sounds like a scary word, tossed out by Sussman, Rush et al, meaning to imply that those who listen to those morons are somehow Norman Rockwell style simple folk who sucks-all just have good old common sense, and we liberals are too smart to understand them.
It’s another word to make the rightwingers who listen to that audio dreck feel good while they wallow in their ignorance. Basically, they are saying someone is “elitist” when they point out the lies of the Bush administration, or try to go beyond the simplistic black-or-white and “you’re either-with-us-or-against-us” discussion of events. Throw in a fact that may present a level of complexity, and you’re labeled “elitist.”
March 21st, 2008 at 10:46 pm
spekkyboy - nice historical review, but you have a major misunderstanding of today’s conservatives. The fear is not of ‘progress’ or the working man vote. The concern is the role of government. In 1866 England the Conservative Party’s desire was to have the government maintain the status quo. The last thing conservatives today want is the government to control anything other than what the constitution expressly allows. This is an over simplification - read Bill Buckley’s stuff to get a much fuller picture. Conservatives are true progressives in that we desire to see all people be successful, with minimum interference from government. Liberals seem to think people cannot succeed without government help, but history disproves that approach. Look at how LBJ’s Great Society has destroyed the inner city.
Elitist - one who considers himself better than others. JSM did consider himself better than others, especially the Conservative Party members of that era. I don’t consider elitist to be a pejorative term when the term is truly descriptive - Willy Brown is an elite politician. Where it is pejorative is when one considers himself an elitist by putting down others – JSM as an example. Hope that helps.
BTW Too many of today’s professional politicians consider themselves to be of the elite (party does not matter) and need to be knocked down to size.
BTW 2 - I take offense to suggestions that I use terms I hear on the radio, implying that I don’t understand the term. I enjoyed reading your post up to your last paragraph.
====
Jim Moore – you said in #29 – “Which makes me wonder again why they were so put out when someone merely printed those “colorful”, “non-weak” “opinions” so a wider audience could see them?” I took that to mean you were referring to the 4 hour program KSFO produced to counter Spocko. If that was not your intent, sorry I agreed with you. I’m too slow on the uptake to understand the rest of your rant 47.
But to net it out it appears that other than Mel leaving Spocko accomplished nothing, and I doubt he had much to do about her contract not being renewed. The sponsors that were claimed to have left are still on KSFO.