Comments on: Cutting through the rhetoric on prison healthcare

By: Josh Richman

Josh Richman — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:21:13 +0000

REW – “Why is it unconstitional for prisoners to have lousy health care, but not the working poor?” Sounds like you’re making an argument for government-run universal single-payer health care for all Californians! But even if you’re not, the simple truth is that when a state locks prisoners up, it assumes responsibility for their constitutionally adequate health care, plain and simple; choosing not to pay for it just isn’t a legal option. The state has freely admitted the care prisoners have been receiving is constitutionally inadequate; it’s merely disputing whether Henderson has the authority to compel the spending to fix it. Henderson didn’t put the system into receivership lightly; he’d found that on average an inmate was dying each week due to inadequate health care, preventable deaths due to the state’s malfeasance. Read his 2005 findings of fact, supported by reams of evidence and testimony. And remember, those findings came in 2005 – well before we found ourselves in this budget crisis. As I’ve said before, the state has known for a long time that this bill was coming due, and has steadfastly refused to pay it. As for dental care, that’s actually a separate case – and another in which the state clearly admitted its past practices were unconstitutional and agreed to change its policies and practices to bring the care up to snuff. And whether or not the 9th Circuit is a den of liberal activists is a debate nobody’s going to win, although I’d caution anyone against holding up Wikipedia as gospel. I’d also point out that many conservatives – including at least one arch-conservative Southern California Congressman I can think of – believe a true conservative stance on medical marijuana is to preserve states’ rights to do as they see fit without federal interference.

By: Rewgolfer

Rewgolfer — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 05:25:43 +0000

Josh, according to Wikpedia the 9th circuit has been regularly critisized for its activist judges, who tend to be quite liberal. The 9th circit was the court that said the pledge of allegiance in schools was illegal because it mnetions God (since overturned by the Surprse Court). The court has also ruled in favor of medical-pot laws, these laws that say it’s okay to grow pot for medical reasons. Judge Henderson is considered a liberal activist Judge by many, and his decision to order the state to pay an additional 8 billion for prisoner health care is an example liberal activism at its worst.

By: Rewgolfer

Rewgolfer — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 05:03:03 +0000

Josh, Judge Henderson clearly had the “right” to order the State Corrections people to improve prisoner health care – I don’t dispute that, what was unususal in this case is ordered state corrections to pay 8 billion dollars to upgrade the prison health care system, and this ruling came at a time when the state was completely broke.
The Corrections people report they already pay $14,000 per inmate for health care. In the Sac Bee yesterday, Dan Walters reported the state pays $45,000 per year to lock up an inmate. So Henderson wants to add 8 billion to these figures!
Judge Henderson claims the state isn’t funding prison health care properly, the State Corrections people say they are, and they have provided the $14,000 per inmate figure to prove that they do. (possibly they are wasting money in the delivery of the service?).
Many experts believe these prisoners get better health care in prison than they do when they are not in prison. They get free dental care while in prison, for example. But on the outside the don’t – they have to pay out of thier pocket, so they don’t go to the dentist (which is true of many poor people who lack dental insurance).
Prisoners, in fact, have a dental plan while they are in jail, they get free dental care while in prison. Should they get top notch dental care in prison, should the come out with all new capped teeth like Brittney Spears?
So Judge Henderson’s basic argument, that prisoners are geting sub-par care medical is absurb on it’s face, because 6 million Calfiornians – many of them working full time – have no health insurance at all, cetainly not free dental care like the prisoners have.
Shouldn’t people working full time have better health care than prisoners? I think so. In prison you fill out a slip to get health care, but the working poor do without health care because it’s too costly. Why is it unconstitional for prisoners to have lousy health care, but not the working poor?
Many conservative judges would take the position that prisoners deserve lousy health care, they should be lowest on the totem pole when it comes to health care. Judge Henderson certainly doesn’t think this way, because he ordered the state to pay that 8 billion.

By: stewart

stewart — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:05:36 +0000

Josh? Ignore the likes of rewgolfer, he speaks with malcontent in his heart when it comes to a ‘judge’ who makes a determination based on the fact that the prison system is broken and this example health care shortcomings.
If it is not the place of the court to determine the matter then there is only anarchy, and not that silly little thing like the 8th ammnedment to the US Constitution?
California want to get tough on every crime then California needs to fork out for the cost, not just walls and guards, but healthcare too.

By: denise

denise — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 17:53:34 +0000

yes ms sheehan im with you on this !!!
and i think the people of calif should pay the pays on the laws they passed that made this mess
PAY OR OPEN THE D– DOORS

By: Ms. Sheehan

Ms. Sheehan — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 07:06:26 +0000

I would like to see each state/government organization be required by law to post their expenditures line by line as to what they spend the dollars on and who is paid. It may lead to “finding” money spent elsewhere.
The funds are going somewhere…best to start looking internally. Have a loved one be dumped into the system and you will find out first hand the horror they go through due to lack of medical care. I would be supportive of spending my tax dollars to install inexpensive, live feed video cameras/speakers to monitoring officer’s and medical staff 24/7. I believe there would be a huge shift in care and accountablity, and perhaps reduce the need to allocate more money into the jail system. One also needs to ask – when cities settle with families for wrongful deaths, etc., from what bucket is that money coming from? If each person who was involved in the care/oversight for a dead or maimed inmate would be held liable and wouldn’t receive a paycheck, bonus, perhaps have to liquidate their home and other assets to pay their share for a settlement, I am confident there would be a huge drop in deaths and complaints. It’s called being held accountable for another human beings life.

By: Josh Richman

Josh Richman — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:10:56 +0000

I beg to differ, Rewgolfer: it’s precisely a judge’s job to determine what is and isn’t constitutional. That’s not activism; that’s the job description.

And if the state disagreed that its prison healthcare system was unconstitutionally inadequate, it could’ve appealed to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, and then to the U.S. Supreme Court… but it didn’t. It has acknowledged the problem, but refused to pay to fix it. And the bill coming due now is so overwhelmingly big solely because the state has ignored this problem for so long.

I’d like to see some stats to back up your contention that the Northern District is “considered the worst district in the US, they regularly get thier (sic) rulings overturned because of this.” If you mean the 9th Circuit as a whole, it does account for a lot of U.S. Supreme Court reversals — at least in part because it’s the largest circuit, and so sends more cases to the U.S. Supreme Court than any other.

By: rewgolfer

rewgolfer — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:33:24 +0000

Josh, just because this Judge says the health care situation in prisons is “unconstitutional” doesn’t make it so. That’s his view. He one of these “activist” Judges pols are always talking about.
99% of federal judges in the US wouldn’t being doing what this Judge is trying to do. The Northern California federal court is full of activist left wing judges, it’s considered the worst district in the US, they regularly get thier rulings overturned because of this. This Judges position is ludicrous, Calfifornia is spending so much on prisons – 11 billion annually – it’s bankrupting the state.