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	<title>Comments on: A new push for &#8216;split-roll&#8217; property taxes</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/2012/12/06/a-new-push-for-split-roll-property-taxes/</link>
	<description>Politics in the Bay Area and beyond</description>
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		<title>By: Split-Roll Property Tax Would Hit Small Businesses Hard — California Political Review</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/2012/12/06/a-new-push-for-split-roll-property-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-117291</link>
		<dc:creator>Split-Roll Property Tax Would Hit Small Businesses Hard — California Political Review</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/?p=21685#comment-117291</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] in Contra Costa County described her plight in a comment left on the Political Blotter of the ContraCostaTimes.com for Dec. 5, 2012: “We have owned a small piece of commercial property for several years. The rent on this property [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in Contra Costa County described her plight in a comment left on the Political Blotter of the ContraCostaTimes.com for Dec. 5, 2012: “We have owned a small piece of commercial property for several years. The rent on this property [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Democrats: Split Rolls or Parcel Taxes—“We will tax you to Texas”</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/2012/12/06/a-new-push-for-split-roll-property-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-117272</link>
		<dc:creator>Democrats: Split Rolls or Parcel Taxes—“We will tax you to Texas”</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 06:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/?p=21685#comment-117272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] If the tax increase is passed, it will hit small businesses the hardest. A small commercial property owner by the name of “Maureen” in Contra Costa County described her plight in a comment left on the Political Blotter of the ContraCostaTimes.com for Dec. 5, 2012: [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] If the tax increase is passed, it will hit small businesses the hardest. A small commercial property owner by the name of “Maureen” in Contra Costa County described her plight in a comment left on the Political Blotter of the ContraCostaTimes.com for Dec. 5, 2012: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John W</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/2012/12/06/a-new-push-for-split-roll-property-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-107665</link>
		<dc:creator>John W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/?p=21685#comment-107665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re:  #20 Publius Says

Most of what you say is true and became so AFTER the passage of Prop. 13.  Which goes to prove that Prop. 13 limited neither overall taxes nor spending.   It did shift a lot of stuff around. 

It&#039;s easier for things like pension abuse and HSR to occur when voters who could do something about it lack the motivation to do so; because, thanks to Prop. 13, they have no skin in the game and do not face any direct consequences from that abuse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  #20 Publius Says</p>
<p>Most of what you say is true and became so AFTER the passage of Prop. 13.  Which goes to prove that Prop. 13 limited neither overall taxes nor spending.   It did shift a lot of stuff around. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s easier for things like pension abuse and HSR to occur when voters who could do something about it lack the motivation to do so; because, thanks to Prop. 13, they have no skin in the game and do not face any direct consequences from that abuse.</p>
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		<title>By: Publius</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/2012/12/06/a-new-push-for-split-roll-property-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-107622</link>
		<dc:creator>Publius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/?p=21685#comment-107622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Disney, Chevron and people with rental properties pay enough taxes. The Dems in Sacramento spend too much time devising ways to increase government revenue. Californians are burdened with the highest taxes in the union. Here are a few examples of what the Democratic liberal agenda has done to this once golden state. With a Democratic Super Majority I predict it will get worse. Why pay more for a government that has failed?

Year 2000-12.2 million jobs in the private sector
Year 2012-11.9 million jobs in the private sector
We are losing Jobs!

1/3rd of national welfare recipients live in the Golden State.

Over 10% unemployment. 2nd highest in the nation.

2011; On reading and Math tests California 8th graders outscored Mississippi and DC to take the 48th spot overall.

Over the past 10 years an average of 225,000 people per year left California to live in other states.

Dead last in S&amp;P credit rating.

High Speed Rail, just signed a union only contract. Suprise!Excluding 80% of the bidders will raise the price. 

Pension abuse so bad that it would make a mobster blush!

Lack of Revenue is not the problem. I would even venture to say that spending is not the problem. A  Bad Corrupted Government that has catered to ideology and special interest is the true culprit. We have to stop feeding the beast, or one day we will all be consumed by its avaricious appetite.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disney, Chevron and people with rental properties pay enough taxes. The Dems in Sacramento spend too much time devising ways to increase government revenue. Californians are burdened with the highest taxes in the union. Here are a few examples of what the Democratic liberal agenda has done to this once golden state. With a Democratic Super Majority I predict it will get worse. Why pay more for a government that has failed?</p>
<p>Year 2000-12.2 million jobs in the private sector<br />
Year 2012-11.9 million jobs in the private sector<br />
We are losing Jobs!</p>
<p>1/3rd of national welfare recipients live in the Golden State.</p>
<p>Over 10% unemployment. 2nd highest in the nation.</p>
<p>2011; On reading and Math tests California 8th graders outscored Mississippi and DC to take the 48th spot overall.</p>
<p>Over the past 10 years an average of 225,000 people per year left California to live in other states.</p>
<p>Dead last in S&amp;P credit rating.</p>
<p>High Speed Rail, just signed a union only contract. Suprise!Excluding 80% of the bidders will raise the price. </p>
<p>Pension abuse so bad that it would make a mobster blush!</p>
<p>Lack of Revenue is not the problem. I would even venture to say that spending is not the problem. A  Bad Corrupted Government that has catered to ideology and special interest is the true culprit. We have to stop feeding the beast, or one day we will all be consumed by its avaricious appetite.</p>
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		<title>By: John W</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/2012/12/06/a-new-push-for-split-roll-property-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-107559</link>
		<dc:creator>John W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 09:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/?p=21685#comment-107559</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Elwood, that was a very keen insight on your part.  The observation about the Chevron refinery also applies to Disneyland.  Many people realize that now, as hindsight is always 20/20.  But I doubt many voters realized that in 1978.

Another unintended consequence is that it concentrated power of the purse strings, especially for school financing, in Sacramento.  Even the Howard Jarvis folks acknowledge that was not a good thing.

If Prop. 13 were changed in a way that treated rental housing as &quot;commercial,&quot; they would need to make special allowances for people whose properties are subject to rent control.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elwood, that was a very keen insight on your part.  The observation about the Chevron refinery also applies to Disneyland.  Many people realize that now, as hindsight is always 20/20.  But I doubt many voters realized that in 1978.</p>
<p>Another unintended consequence is that it concentrated power of the purse strings, especially for school financing, in Sacramento.  Even the Howard Jarvis folks acknowledge that was not a good thing.</p>
<p>If Prop. 13 were changed in a way that treated rental housing as &#8220;commercial,&#8221; they would need to make special allowances for people whose properties are subject to rent control.</p>
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		<title>By: Elwood</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/2012/12/06/a-new-push-for-split-roll-property-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-107538</link>
		<dc:creator>Elwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 06:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/?p=21685#comment-107538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My thinking when I voted no on Prop. 13 in 1978 was &quot;How many times does the Chevron refinery change hands?&quot;

Time has borne me out on this one.  As homes change hands they are reassessed but large properties either don&#039;t change hands that often and/or it&#039;s done in a way to avoid reassessment.

Consequently, a greater proportion of the tax burden has shifted to the homeowner.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My thinking when I voted no on Prop. 13 in 1978 was &#8220;How many times does the Chevron refinery change hands?&#8221;</p>
<p>Time has borne me out on this one.  As homes change hands they are reassessed but large properties either don&#8217;t change hands that often and/or it&#8217;s done in a way to avoid reassessment.</p>
<p>Consequently, a greater proportion of the tax burden has shifted to the homeowner.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John W</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/2012/12/06/a-new-push-for-split-roll-property-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-107524</link>
		<dc:creator>John W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 03:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/?p=21685#comment-107524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re Wendy Lack,

I&#039;m against split roll if it means that &quot;commercial&quot; property would be treated differently from owner-occupied residential property and exposed to annual reassessment.  However, commercial property is already treated differently from owner-occupied residential in the sense that property owned by corporations  can change hands many times through stock transactions without ever being subject to reassessment.  Also, we already have a &quot;fragmented roll&quot; system of sorts in that  no two properties of comparable market value are taxed the same.

I don&#039;t think Prop. 13 has done diddly-squat to control the overall tax burden in California, to control spending, to control indebtedness, or to benefit the economy.  The trajectory on all those metrics since Prop. 13 was passed would suggest just the opposite is true.  And I would argue that Prop. 13 has been harmful in all those categories.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Wendy Lack,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m against split roll if it means that &#8220;commercial&#8221; property would be treated differently from owner-occupied residential property and exposed to annual reassessment.  However, commercial property is already treated differently from owner-occupied residential in the sense that property owned by corporations  can change hands many times through stock transactions without ever being subject to reassessment.  Also, we already have a &#8220;fragmented roll&#8221; system of sorts in that  no two properties of comparable market value are taxed the same.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Prop. 13 has done diddly-squat to control the overall tax burden in California, to control spending, to control indebtedness, or to benefit the economy.  The trajectory on all those metrics since Prop. 13 was passed would suggest just the opposite is true.  And I would argue that Prop. 13 has been harmful in all those categories.</p>
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		<title>By: Wendy Lack</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/2012/12/06/a-new-push-for-split-roll-property-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-107502</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy Lack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 01:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/?p=21685#comment-107502</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not sure about the current proposal, but past &quot;split-roll&quot; proposals have defined investment property (including residential rentals) as commercial.  This impacts many homeowners who have residential property they hold and lease out.  Would be a huge hit on average families that rent out &quot;the old house grandma lived in &#039;til she died.&quot;

@Bruce Peterson:  Yes I, too, recall people getting taxed out their homes in the 1970&#039;s.  It&#039;s a fact higher taxes accompany higher spending levels -- the debt piles up even as spending accelerates.  

Absent Prop 13, California&#039;s fiscal situation would be far worse today.

Prop 13 is an obstacle to those who favor bigger government and higher taxes -- it gets in the way of those pursuits.

The split roll would be a net negative for California&#039;s economy and would result in higher government spending and more debt.  Not a good outcome.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure about the current proposal, but past &#8220;split-roll&#8221; proposals have defined investment property (including residential rentals) as commercial.  This impacts many homeowners who have residential property they hold and lease out.  Would be a huge hit on average families that rent out &#8220;the old house grandma lived in &#8217;til she died.&#8221;</p>
<p>@Bruce Peterson:  Yes I, too, recall people getting taxed out their homes in the 1970&#8242;s.  It&#8217;s a fact higher taxes accompany higher spending levels &#8212; the debt piles up even as spending accelerates.  </p>
<p>Absent Prop 13, California&#8217;s fiscal situation would be far worse today.</p>
<p>Prop 13 is an obstacle to those who favor bigger government and higher taxes &#8212; it gets in the way of those pursuits.</p>
<p>The split roll would be a net negative for California&#8217;s economy and would result in higher government spending and more debt.  Not a good outcome.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John W</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/2012/12/06/a-new-push-for-split-roll-property-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-107171</link>
		<dc:creator>John W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 20:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/?p=21685#comment-107171</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Elwood, Was that when you were a non-recovering &quot;dimmiecrat?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elwood, Was that when you were a non-recovering &#8220;dimmiecrat?&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Elwood</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/2012/12/06/a-new-push-for-split-roll-property-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-107170</link>
		<dc:creator>Elwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 20:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/politics/?p=21685#comment-107170</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t blame me!

I voted no.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t blame me!</p>
<p>I voted no.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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