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Major change to NCS playoffs

By Jimmy Durkin
Thursday, October 29th, 2009 at 5:18 pm in Uncategorized.

As first reported by Ben Enos in the Two Geeks chat not long ago. the North Coast Section made an announcement today regarding a major change to the playoff brackets. The change now allows, at the discretion of the seeding committee, for any bracket to include up to 16 teams, provided the committee believes there are other eligible teams worthy of making the field. That could play a major role in this year’s NCS football brackets, where only Division III was scheduled to have a 16-team field. Off hand, I can think of a few teams (Valley Christian, Harker, Justin-Siena) in the Division IV field who just moved from bubble teams to probables, although it will be hard to gauge how the committee decides, in closed session, what makes a team worthy of making the field and increasing the size of the bracket.

The NCS’s rationale, the announcement says, is because “Often times, there is very little if any separation between the last team selected and the team(s) excluded from the Championships by the committee. By allowing the committee to increase the bracket size, this will allow qualified teams to compete on the field/court rather than on the chalkboard.”

On the surface, I see the merit. But it could open a huge can of worms when decided whether or not to increase the bracket size. Let the discussion begin.

[Both comments and pings are currently closed.]

  • ManO’War

    More that play, the better! Problem, though, is accountability for the decisions made behind the closed door. Is the info submitted by coaches available to view, at least?

  • Panther Fan

    Jimmy D – I am totally confused. Does this mean an extra game for teams? I was told to win NCS you need to win 3 games. Is it now 4? Can you help a rookie out?

    Go Panthers!

  • http://ibabuzz.com/prepcorner Jimmy Durkin

    Potentially Panther Fan. With Div. IV set as a 8-team bracket, I could see it possibly getting bumped to a 10 or 12-team bracket, but it wouldn’t go up to a full 16-team bracket. There are, in fact, only 17 teams in the divisions and there won’t be 16 teams qualified, although I do still give 14 teams a chance to qualify. It wouldn’t likely add a game for St. Mary’s since in a 12-team bracket, the top four seeds would have first-round byes, and I’d expect St. Mary’s to be in that top four.

  • http://ibabuzz.com/prepcorner Jimmy Durkin

    ManO’War,
    I’m not sure if it will be available or not. That’s a question we’ll attempt to get answered. And knowing what NCS commissioner Gil Lemmon has been like throughout his tenure, I’m guessing he’ll be very open in getting us information about the decisions made regarding adding or choosing to not add teams to a bracket.

  • Kyle Bonagura

    I’m all for having more teams in, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

    Say you have 14 teams eligible for the postseason — would the committee be willing to take just 13 and leave the only qualified team out? They are setting themselves up for a lot of problems, especially with all of this going on behind closed doors.

    Might as well just make it 16 teams at D1 and D2, 12 at D4 and let more teams in.

    This could very well be a money decision too. Let’s say Amador is the team with the No. 4 seed at D1 and they let 13 teams in. AV would then have a first-round home game where they’ll draw say, 2,500 fans (number out of the blue). At 10 dollars a head, that’s $25,000 dollars more that NCS would get coming its way. In that regard, it’s a smart move.

  • http://ibuzz Football 4eva

    What happens if there aren’t enough EBAL teams to fill the 16 spots?

  • http://ibabuzz.com/prepcorner Jimmy Durkin

    Chances are there won’t be enough to fill 16 spots, since the teams still have to be qualified through either a .500 overall, league or within division record. There’s no guarantees of putting in 16 teams, there’s just now the option to go up to 16.

  • norcalfball

    very interasting…so college park, newark could benefit greatly….and guarantee heritage, logan, and any ebal school that finishes 5-5 in…

    newark should finish 6-4…cp has to win 2 of 3, even antioch could get in by beating heritage…

    yeah more money and a nice warm up for the top seeds i guess…but hey more playoff participation makes it fun..all about the kids right

  • norcalfball

    so if 14 qualify will they take 14 then? or just decide to stay with 12 or something since they don’t have 16 qualifying teams…

    i do think they need to keep the .500 record in tact, whether it be overall record, in league, or against like division oppponents…

  • http://ibabuzz.com/prepcorner Jimmy Durkin

    The problem, Norcalfball, is we don’t know. This throws such a variable into the loop. Previously, I think each of the writers had covered enough NCS seeding meetings that we had a good idea how the committees worked and that allowed us to predict better. With this change, we really don’t know.

    If 14 qualify, they might take 14 or they might still take 12. I agree they shouldn’t change the rules for qualifying. By allowing teams to be .500 in any of those three areas, there are enough opportunities for teams to get qualified.

  • Kyle Bonagura

    D-1 is going to be interesting

    10 qualified teams
    ————————-
    De La Salle
    Deer Valley
    Berkeley
    Amador
    San Ramon
    Foothill
    Washington
    Heritage
    San Leandro
    James Logan
    ——————-
    Every other D-1 team except Mission San Jose is still “mathematically alive.” But figure its extremely unlikely for 7 of those teams to qualify (Liberty, Livermore, Freedom, Santa Rosa, Arroyo, Castro Valley and Irvington).
    ——————-
    That leaves 8 teams that have a realistic chance of qualifying:

    Monte Vista – Needs 1 win (Granada, Cal, SRV)
    Cal – Needs 1 win (Foothill, Monte Vista, DLS)
    Pittsburg – Needs 1 win (Freedom, Liberty, Antioch)
    Antioch – Needs 1 win (Heritage, Deer Valley, Pittsburg)
    Granada – Needs 2 wins (Monte Vista, SRV, Livermore)
    College Park – Needs 2 wins (Mt. Diablo, Clayton Valley, Ygnacio Valley)
    Newark – Needs 2 wins (American, Irvington, Mission San Jose)
    American – Needs 2 wins (Newark, Kennedy-Fremont, Valley Christian-Dublin)

  • EBAL FAN #2

    This is all about making money for NCS. As it is, it is a joke that so many teams are allowed into the playoffs. The lowest seeds have absolutely no chance of winning and you are creating potentially dangerous situations.

    In college footbal when you “qualify” for a bowl game you are typically pitted against another team of a similar record and quality. With an expanded field, you have a potential of a no 1 seed DLS playing no 16 seed American. What a fiasco. No reward but a big beat-down, not a good way to end anybodies season.

    They need to go the other way and have only league champions play in playoffs and then go on to play other section champions for a “real” state champion, not the BCS style situation we have now.

  • Kyle Bonagura

    I wouldn’t expect a team like American to even apply for just that reason…

  • http://httpn Fast and Physical

    I think this is a great idea, to allow Berkeley to showcase their talent, and to be able to ofer more film for recruiters to see. Maybe Rickey Galvin can get 2500 yards rushing? Maybe Berkeley can participate against some EBAL teams, and show all the non- believers, whats up, (kyle B). Let the show begin! Run Rickey Run, Go Jackets!

  • ccoosby

    there is already too many teams in, it is all about the money this is a complete joke basketball and football and baseball all have too many playoff teams. Why even play a season just seed everybody and start the playoffs NCS is supposed to reward teams for a good season not a 500 season to get blasted by 50 to a top seed. This is suppose to be about the kids not the money for embarrassomg loses

  • HitStick

    There are a lot of teams that are very excited to hear this news, I am sure of that.

    Playoff football, gotta love it!

  • mike

    lol some teams are gonna get smashed and won’t do it. American in the playoffs? thats ended bad… SRV smoked them in 07 59-6. Logan got beat 68-0 by DLS in 06.. shet’s gonna hit the fan bad call.

    Berkeley doesn’t need any more show off games bruh, they got that weak league already LOL. dont worry bout rickey he’s going to wasu and the cougars are gonna become a pac ten force with all the home grown guys they stealing from the rest of the pac. lol i love it all the locals gettin recruited full ride to a fun college town and nobody else seems to care. cal stanford oregon hella suck they losin out.

    we do need inter section playoffs tho. if they gonna expand the post season, we should be going intersectional and have the strong teams play the strong teams from the SJS and CCS. it aint nothin. Grant Mitty St Marys Del Oro goin down NCS pride LOL

  • http://Bluedog2 George Manley

    10-29-09
    I think Mike is right about intersection playoffs…Which would include from the tip of Northern Calif. to the Valley and only the league champs or top two could enter….With all the 5-5 teams, its almost like drinking Pespi or beer that is half water….Too many of the 5-5 teams take a beating right at the start..but with some exceptions….the big grip would be travel costs…But the winners would earn their way to the NCS playoff in the South instead of a committee chosing who should go..

  • Prep Fan

    True, there are many weak 5-5 teams that should not be considered. But teams like Monte Vista, Foothill, or Cal might end up 5-5 and still be able to hang with any team they might draw. You also need to look at who they have played, and how close were the losses.

  • KillerD

    1. Due to nasty, way, way, way, way too Overtaxed and Horrible Bad economy, YES, make no mistake, the Number One Reason the CIF/NCS and many other state associations across America have and are expanding potential playoff brackets is Money. CIF dues are Very Low, and way down, so this remedy when viewed through clear glass is understood, but nevertheless a bit Tart

    2. Now that we might have concurred on that point, is there a downside to expanding playoffs?

    a. Yes, it waters-down the playoffs and too many teams at or near .500% get in through the back door

    b. No, there is not a downside, these games are for the Kids first and foremost, and let the chips fall where they may: what a glorious site to behold a 5-5 EBAL team upset an 8-2 DLS team, it could happen.

    c. Usually, during Most teams’ regular season, they will encounter nasty injuries, flu season and a windmill of bad happenings that hurt their realistic chances of winning or eliminate them all together…BUT, that is normal, understood by most logical football fans, players and coaches, even though it hurts them to come to terms with it, and understand it…some teams get lucky and bypass the injury/flu bug, whilst other squads are ravaged by it while they play very tough teams, and suddenly, over a two or three week span…..alas,,,,,there Playoffs hope are dashed.

    More teams in the NCS Playoffs?????????

    Yes, let the kids live the dream, and to the neysayers…………………..Tough, get over it.

  • norcalfball

    you guys are all whinning about the teams that will get blown out…are you their protectors? remember they have to apply still if they want to go. so if they don’t want to practice another week to go get blown out by DLS then don’t apply for a berth. Let each team make that decision…

    as for me yes it is watered down a bit, but realistically those teams shouldn’t win anyways….and if you are worried about injuries then pull all your starters and play the backups all game if you know the game is in hand already. hey and if it is about the money then why is everyone complaining…these are the same people complaining when the cut school funding for sports or have to play all day games or might have to cut sports all together…in these tough economic times why not make a few extra dollars to help our high school sports out.

    is it the best answer well no…but i think overall it has good intentions and remember if you are worried about a team getting blown out in the first round, THEN DONT APPLY!!! ncs is not forcing anyone to play the game.

  • http://ibabuzz.com PERKIN

    I’d rather have a game then a bye. So in that sense I’m for more teams. I’d have much rather seen the Northern sections come together which had been mentioned earlier to make a Play-off system where you play to go to state. But in the NCS for example that would mean 8 team play-off fields at al levels D-I, D-II ect… Not getting in the play-offs is the main reason that the North Bay Redwood Empire teams started their own section cause they felt they were getting dogged on Play-off births.

  • http://ibabuzz.com PERKIN

    The bottom line if I’m not mistaken is you have to qualify to apply so maybe it won’t get as bad as the OAL play-offs in certain years where 1-9 teams make the Play-offs. BUt that could have happened at D-III last year but those 2-8 teams didn’t apply.

    I think bloggers are making too much of having a 5-5 record vs 8-2 records. Strenght of schedule has to be taken into account or just what would happen if SL had to play MV schedule if their strength of schedule is close to even then look at records.

  • EBAL FAN #2

    NORCALFBALL,

    Not worried about the health of the WINNING team, but the health of the LOSING team.

    Also, where do those extra dollars go? Doesn’t NCS get the bulk of it?

    5-5 teams are 5-5 because they deserve it.

  • football

    this really opens D-2 up…

    If a team like Mt. Diablo can manage to win 2 out of 3 down the stretch and get to 6-4… then they will probably get in. I think they should do this, you give a bunch of kids one more game in their life and NCS gets to make a lot of money. Everybody wins. PERIOD

  • THE WHISTLE

    At the end of the day, the expanded fields are all about the money. You’re kidding yourselves if you think anything else. But while NCS pimps out the athletes to make more money, at least more kids get a chance to play in the playoffs and that’s how we look at it. Just don’t believe NCS for one minute if they say anything other than it’s for the money!!!!

  • dnrapp

    I think CIF should set up a true Open Division State Championship Playoff. Have all the sections in the North combine for a bracket to the the State Open Championship game.Same with the South. Any tean should be able to throw their hat into the Open playoffs by a certain date. Have CIF select an 8 or 10 or 12 or 16 team bracket. All the teams that don’t opt for the Open Division will still go to their section divisional playoffs. It will kinda be like what the CCS does now.

  • billjohnson

    dnrapp bad idea only de la would play in the open. so basicially they’d be playin with themselves just like u did this morning!

  • billjohnson

    bad idea to expand ncs in d-1 n d-2 unless u like blow outs.

  • dnrapp

    What smalljohnson don’t you think teams like Grant, Del Oro and St Mary’s in the sjs, the top teams in the WCAL and Gilroy ares schools in the CCS and even some teams in the NCS would like to take a shot at DLS in a true state playoff? You can even expand it so that the North goes down to the Fresno area so that all the Clovis schools and Fresno schools will be in the mix

  • billjohnson

    that would work if u open it up. they should have section champions meet so we send the rite teams 2 state. just busting ur ba11s dnrapp good come back.

  • http://aol Big Joe

    The Season is long enough already, especially if your team advance to state. Private schools have finals before the Christmas break. They are not going to sacrifice grades for extra games. This goes for both NorCal and SoCal. That means De La, St. Mary’s ( Stockton), Central Catholic, Bellarmine, Mater Dei, St. Bonaventure, Orange Lutheran, Westlake and Norte Dame(Sherman Oaks) might not want to play any more of an extended schedule. If you want a seperation of church and state then let the publics battle it out, the privates can play a seperate bowl series, they’re the best anyways.

  • http://aol Yo Mama

    Johnson, that was a low blow to DeRapp and playing with himself this morning. He might have been playin’ with Yo Mama.

  • MiKE

    Big Joe, Grant and Poly and Pittsburg and Oceanside might have something to say about that… Grant beat Bellevue………….

    lol but you have a point its all privates that usually make up half of the field in CIF bowls. I really want to see DE La Salle play Oaks Christian. I wanna see Grant go against Oceanside-San Diego. We’ve been getting the same matchups.. Grant/St.Mary’s will play in their section championship, let’s rotate teams so we dont see DLS/Centennial each year, St Bonaventure vs St.Mary’s/Central Catholic/Cardinal Newman each year…

    Poly is showin how down they have been the past two years.. Let Grant play Centennial now, or a private school even.. Mix it up and get rid of these repeat performances.. Poly is down, DLS is down when they lost to Centennial, Grant is the only factor that has been more or less constant, 13-0 in 06, down in 07, back in 08 and back in 09. Pacer Pride lol

  • Kyle Bonagura

    D-1 update

    13 qualified teams
    ————————-
    De La Salle
    Deer Valley
    Berkeley
    Amador
    San Ramon
    Foothill
    Washington
    Heritage
    San Leandro
    James Logan
    Monte Vista
    Cal
    Pittsburg
    ——————-
    That leaves 5 teams that have a realistic chance of qualifying, although it wouldn’t surprise me if just Newark does…

    Antioch – Needs 1 win (Deer Valley, Pittsburg)
    Granada – Needs 2 wins (SRV, Livermore)
    Newark – Needs 1 win (Irvington, Mission San Jose)
    College Park – Needs 2 wins (Clayton Valley, Ygnacio Valley)
    American – Needs 2 wins (Kennedy-Fremont, Valley Christian-Dublin)

  • 925

    thanks Kyle.

  • renegades10

    antioch could surprise pitt. i don’t know what happened in the pitt v freedom game today but it was tied up i believe at halftime. maybe a little bit spent after last weeks heartbreaker. but rivalry games tend to play out differently then expected. but ya newark would have to become the choke artists of the century to not win one game against those two teams. i don’t think granada has what it takes to beat SRV but it could be a close game. college park might beat clayton but not yv.

  • 2raw

    hayward will make the d2 playoffs this year with an 8-2 record

  • Dutch B

    Shorten regular season to 9-games.

    Create a 6-game NorCal playoff, utilizing districts and regions.

    State title game would be game #16.

    There could be 4-regions. Each region being comprised of 8-districts.

    I would also incorporate the Central Section teams into NorCal. So the Bakersfield; Clovis and Fresno heavyweights could be in the mix.

    One district could include the schools from Tracy; Concord; Pittsburg; Clayton; Brentwood; Oakley; Antioch; Martinez and Benicia. That district would be a part of a region including the EBAL; MVAL; HAAL and etc.

    I would also include the Monticello Empire League (MEL) schools in that region. Schools from Vacaville; Napa; Vallejo; Fairfield and etc. Obviously Berkeley and Richmond area schools too.

  • Kyle Bonagura

    This is what I came up with last year for a state playoff:

    http://www.ibabuzz.com/prepcorner/2008/12/16/state-football-playoffs/

  • FootballSmart

    Hey Kyle,

    I guess CV won’t be leaning towards a 9-1 finish after all.

  • bhsfan

    would like to see last year b high in there, lol but i like the concept and school size. most states start the regular season 2 or 3 weeks b4 california and most states dont have restrictions on when and how long they can practice

  • underrated

    alamedas in

  • bhsfan

    that was not bad last year kyle

  • Prep Fan

    Kyle, I guess you can take that as a compliment. :)

  • renegades10

    footballsmart you are taking what kyle said the wrong way. he talked about the possibility of how they would end up record wise. he was saying that they would be more likely to be 9-1 then 6-4 , not that they would exactly end up 9-1. there is no need for you to taunt him on here. ur team won be happy.

  • norcalfball

    I like kyles format, but I believe all private schools should play one level up from enrollment…in this format ncs would get hurt as most of the best teams fall in that 1700-2500 range…this year we have dv & berkeley up top but most years we have very few teams in this range..

    but agree need to move toward state playoff…if texas can we can…but still a separate public & private school playoff format would make it easier & lessen games & brackets…by doing this I think more feasible & then private schools can determine together when to end season

  • skip cuevas

    ….just a way to make more teams feel good about themselves…there is such a gap b/t team who REALLY have a chance to advance to section finals and the 8-16th best team that this adds nothing that a few bucks to NCS coffers (as they get share of gate receipts)

  • renegades10

    how about just for kicks we have the winner of the private school brackets play the winner of the public school brackets?

  • Dutch B

    Renegades10…I like your suggestion. That the winners of the private and public school brackets play one another.

    Kyle Bonagura…I did not like your state playoff idea.
    http://www.ibabuzz.com/prepcorner/2008/12/16/state-football-playoffs/

    I like mine better:
    Shorten regular season to 9-games.

    Create a 6-game NorCal playoff, utilizing districts and regions.

    State title game would be game #16.

    There could be 4-regions. Each region being comprised of 8-districts.

    I would also incorporate the Central Section teams into NorCal. So the Bakersfield; Clovis and Fresno heavyweights could be in the mix.

    One district could include the schools from Tracy; Concord; Pittsburg; Clayton; Brentwood; Oakley; Antioch; Martinez and Benicia. That district would be a part of a region including the EBAL; MVAL; HAAL and etc.

    I would also include the Monticello Empire League (MEL) schools in that region. Schools from Vacaville; Napa; Vallejo; Fairfield and etc. Obviously Berkeley and Richmond area schools too.