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Why is McClymonds in Division II?

By Jimmy Durkin
Thursday, December 2nd, 2010 at 2:39 pm in East Bay Football.

I’ve heard the above question a lot this year, so I figured it’d be a good idea to try to provide a full explanation. I even had a few questions myself about the whole process that I was able to get cleared up.

For starters, the California Interscholastic Federation announced a change in June to its parameters for selecting state bowl game representatives. That change eliminated school enrollments as the determining factor for which divisions teams are considered for state bowl game purposes. Instead, the state bowl divisions were decided within each section. Each section commissioner provided their suggestion for which divisions their teams should be placed in. For the North Coast Section, that led to NCS Division I teams being placed in state Division I, NCS Division II being placed in state Division II and NCS Divisions III, IV and V being placed in state Division III. For all sections, any state Division III schools with enrollments of less than 500 are considered for Division IV (that’s different that what the above press release said, but that change was given to me by CIF Senior Director Ron Nocetti).

As for the Oakland Section, the commissioner’s recommendation that came forth based on the average size of the schools and competitive equity was Division II. The rest of the commissioners agreed that was appropriate and that’s where the Oakland Section was placed, meaning that’s where McClymonds will be considered for this year’s state championship bowl games.

One question expressed at McClymonds is why it can’t be considered for Division IV, using that same rule that allows Division III schools of less than 500 students to fall to Division IV. First off, Nocetti confirmed that’s an exception only in place for Division III. That’s the rule currently in place and only Division III schools can drop to Division IV. But it’s not the only reason Mack can’t be considered in Division IV. Despite a current enrollment that the Oakland Unified School District confirmed to me earlier this year of 247, the CIF always uses the prior school year’s enrollment. That number, which came prior to merger of the former small schools at McClymonds back into one comprehensive school, was 552. That means even if the Oakland Section was in Division III, there’s no way McClymonds could be considered for Division IV because it did not fall into that under 500 enrollment last year.

Nocetti assured this is a new process and it will be reviewed. The Oakland Section could recommend next year that it’s teams — based on size and, more importantly, competitive equity — be placed in Division III. That would allow future McClymonds teams, provided the enrollment stays under 500, to be considered in Division IV. However, for this year, Mack is Division II and will stay there.

Of course, that doesn’t mean there’s zero chance of earning a state title game berth. The Warriors will need Grant-Sacramento to beat Folsom on Friday for the Sac-Joaquin Section Division II title and then have the Pacers earn the Open Division berth, thus creating an opening at Division II. There’s no guarantee Mack would get the spot in that case, but it would have a chance.

One of our bloggers, renegades10, provided some analysis during a live chat yesterday of why Mack would be next in line to grab the Division II berth if Grant was awarded the Open Division spot. Among the teams in consideration for the Division II spot is whoever wins NCS Division II (Concord is the top seed), Northern Section champion Paradise, and whoever wins the SJS Division III championship game between Oakdale and Del Oro. Here’s renegades10′s breakdown:

Concord lost to Whitney early in the season. Whitney lost in the DIII playoffs to Del Oro. So Del Oro would actually have an edge over Concord based on common opponents since SJS DIII teams are DII for bowl games. But Del Oro has four losses on the season. Then Paradise recently won the top division in the Northern Section and they have only one loss. That loss was to Deer Valley, who lost to Pitt, who lost to Mack. Therefore an undefeated Mack squad should have the edge over a one loss Paradise. Then comparing Mack to Del Oro, well 0 losses to 4 I think has to go to Mack. So there you go.

I’ll add to that by saying obviously if Oakdale beat Del Oro, then you could go through the same chain of events renegades10 presented to give Oakdale the edge over Concord and then compare Oakdale having three losses to Mack’s zero.

As you can see, this is all a pretty complicated process. But I know some people at Mack were holding out hope that it could receive a Division IV berth, which simply is not going to happen.

The unfortunate thing is that Ferndale, a team Mack beat 18-0 to start the season, is in a position that if it can win its next two games to take the NCS Division IV title, it would likely soar to the top of the state Division IV rankings and be in position to earn a berth in the state title game. Nobody said life is fair, right?

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  • Prep Fan

    The best chance of Grant being selected for the Open Division (which would open that D2 slot up for Mack) would be for DLS to lose to either Granada this week, or to Cal or SRV next week in the NCS finals. Otherwise, the conventional wisdom is that DLS will get the Open and the Grant/Folsom winner will get the D2 slot that Mack has its eyes on. But no one said the state bowl selections were done by conventional wisdom either. We’ll see what happens. Good luck to Mack!

  • concord guy

    mack will not go in the D2, stop talking about it, heritage beat pitt soundly in the playoffs a team concord beat. pitt was macks only quality win

  • http://ibabuzz.com/prepcorner Jimmy Durkin

    The point of the post is to explain why they are in Division II, rather than being considered for Division IV. The majority of people at Mack are questioning why they can’t go in Division IV and so this post attempts to answer that.

  • renegades10

    concord guy, that is true about Mack’s win. but as I pointed out Concord is at an extreme disadvantage that if Del Oro wins this weekend they have a win over Whitney, who Concord lost to. The CIF takes a huge look at common opponents. Del Oro would get in over Concord, even with 4 losses they would have the edge based on common opponents. the rest of my argument goes on from there. I along with many others said that Mack’s schedule was not enough to get them in. And Ferndale and Pitt don’t compare to the likely D2 SoCal rep in Serra (Gardena). But, after looking at the facts and seeing how many people on this board and the norcalpreps boards were bashing Mack and saying there was absolutely no chance they get picked, well I thought it would be fun to play devil’s advocate. And it so happens that the argument has its merits. And of course this all depends on the SJS DII rep going to the Open. Otherwise no other team has a shot.

  • Prep Fan

    Concord Guy, Heritage actually split with Pitt, but Pitt was the league champ. Speaking of quality wins, other than Heritage what was Concord’s best win? Amador Valley didn’t even make the playoffs this year. Skyline? American?

    Concord is in the same boat as Mack in needing a DLS loss to get Grant into the Open game, but Mack is at least already a section champion and eligible. So Mack people can talk about it. Concord still needs 2 more wins to qualify. Good luck to the Minutemen and the Lloyd show.

  • EBfootball

    This is exactly why the OAL should be a league in the North Coast Section.

  • Big Dog

    If the Oakland teams would sack up and join the NCS (at the least for football). Then Mack would qualify for a lower division and would have had the opportunity to establish a stronger strength of schedule in the playoffs.

  • come on son

    This has been said on this blogs many times before but I will say it again. THE ONLY REASON THAT OAL IS NOT A LEAGUE IN THE NORTH COAST SECTION IS BECAUSE THE OAL COMMISSIONER WOULD LOOSE HIS JOB. In my opinion, he is hurting the kids for his own selfish reasons.

  • come on son

    The OAL Commissioner made a big mistake again by making all of the schools in the OAL go Div 11. Did he consider that that Mack has had the strongest program for Football and Basketball has the smallest enrollment. What was he thinking by putting MACK in DIV 11?

  • KillerD

    With MacClymonds enrollment rumored to be 300 or so, it is Absurd to believe the OAL Commissioner could have possibly placed them in such a high bracket of D2, instead of where they should be at D4.

    IF that is the case, let me be clear on something, there is NO, NONE, NADA, NIET, ZERO and ZILCH acceptable reasons or excuses for him to have done such a boneheaded and negligent act.

    MacDaddy has a great football team and would easily qualify in its rightly home of D4 state title shot or at least finish 2nd. But they would get my vote in D4.

  • KillerD

    As an east bay football native and fan, I am sick and tired of the OAL getting punked.

  • http://ibabuzz.com/prepcorner Jimmy Durkin

    It’s not as simple as placing just Mack in Division II. The whole section had to be placed in the same division. With Skyline, Tech and Oakland in the neighborhood of 2,000, it’s no lock that it would’ve been approved for the Oakland Section to be placed in Division III, thus in future years (but not this year) making Mack eligible in D-4. The average school size had to be taken into consideration.

  • KillerD

    Good breakdown on the reasons, but it is a shame that an entire section of schools in the OAL had to go into the CIF consideration as one.

    It should be solely based on per school enrollment one by one just like the other CIF members.

  • concord guy

    the oal is not in the ncs because they fear having to play by the same transfer and eligibilty rules as everyone else

  • KillerD

    Yes ConcordGuy I have heard that from many people and it’s unfortunate. Only serves to limit the OAL kids instead of teaching and showing them the right thing to do.

    Another terrible set of decisons by OAL powers-that-be.

  • ManDown

    The OAL need to stop playin and they need to become a league in the North Coast Section. We wont have these problems about Mack getting the short end of the stick.

  • coach mac

    concord guy

    The OAL is governed the CIF. All sections are governed by the CIF. We are probably one of the toughest sections as it relates to eligibility. We have no Waivers,8th graders entering the 9th grade must have a 2.0 to participate(no fresh start),all transfer students must complete forms 510 and 207 and must be approved by CIF.

    I am taking your statement to say that the OAL cheats. That is totally false. There are kids that transferred out of Mack to NCS schools and I have yet to sign off the 510 and 207 forms. Those kids played. That’s cheating!

  • concord guy

    no it’s not if Jabari brown was in the ncs he would not be eligible this year. kids go from school to school season by season. you don’t have waivers but i believe kids can make up classes at anytime and through digital classes. you don’t cheat you play by a different set of rules

  • coach mac

    concord guy

    We have cut off points governed by the education board. All sections are regulated by CIF bylaws. Mack also grades on the mastery system. Grading is A,B,C,or F. No Ds. 2Fs you are ineligible. No grade changes after the 3rd Monday at the end of marking period.

  • coach mac

    concord guy
    Jabari Brown was cleared through a CIF hearing not the OAL.

  • Billjohnson

    how is mack getting cheated? They knew there section is d2 for state they should have scheduled some d2 schools y play mckinleyville play rocklin folsom pinole casa grande concord those r the teams in your way from going to state. Mack is good but they couldnt beat a good team who is balanced and capiable of completing a pass. Look who they beat teams who mostly run with not strong passing games n play man to man defenses no mystery just throw up the fade. Will c wat mack does next year if they feel they got cheated play n beat those teams n ur way.

  • http://ibabuzz.com/prepcorner Jimmy Durkin

    Bill,
    Mack didn’t know it was Division II when the schedule was made. The announcement that they were in Division II came June 28. The schedule was complete by then.

  • Billjohnson

    Thanks jimmy. I guess will c how they schedule there non league next year then cuz they know now. Either way da oal needs to step it up if skyline is a 2 seed in ur playoff whats that saying? Not much.

  • concord guy

    get all coaches together and petition to speak to the CIF. The commisioner works for you. take a vote of no confidence just stop hiding behind the paperwork that protects your system as well.

  • EBfootball

    The public outcry against the OAL joining the NCS was that they believed that they were going to be broken up and sent to different leagues. That’s what I read in the paper and that’s what I was hearing around The Town. That’s not how leagues are formed in NCS. The AD’s an principals get together every 4 years and vote if they want to make any changes and those changes are initiated by teams that want to move. For example Castro Valley is about to join the EBAL because they asked and it was approved by a vote. The OAL will not be broken up unless one of the schools wants out. I never heard anything about fear of having to follow NCS rules.

  • coach mac

    billjohnson

    Due to our enrollment 340 students in 2009 and 250 students in 2010 we were to be reclassified to D-5. We scheduled Pittsburg(D-1 and BVAL champion). We beat them at Pitt with 22 players. We were 40 point underdogs. Ferndale and Salesian are champions as well. They are playing in the semifinal game this Saturday at Salesian. Mckinleyville beat us last year and made it to the playoffs last year. We were in a 2 year contract.

    Now that I know that we will be reclassified, I will schedule all D-5 schools in preseason and compete with the D-2 schools in our league. We may have a shot.

  • EBfootball

    Coach Mac,
    What’s your opinion on the OAL becoming a League in the NCS? Would you approach your Principal and AD in order to attempt to make that happen? Were the coaches, AD’s, and principals surveyed?

  • coach mac

    ebfootball

    Yes I would love foe the OAL to be a part of the NCS like basketball and track. Make all the sports NCS.

  • JustMaybe

    This year’s Mack team would have been the team I’d like to see play the other D-2 schools. I hope next year’s team is just as good as this one. Without a JV squad, do you think you’ll have another Marcus Peters-like player, or a chance at having the same undefeated record. I know the Salesian game was really close, and they have an undefeated JV team, and still keep Freddie, their WRs, safety, and all their DBs.

  • http://ibabuzz.com PERKIN

    OAL is not part of NCS for basketball & Track they’re are part of CIF. To get in the state tourney all they have to do is win their section. Bad though for soem years in hoop they could have had D-II & D-I teams that would have done well.

  • Coach Mac

    justmaybe

    I don’t just coach a team, I run a program. I can’t say that we will go undefeated next year. I can tell you that we will be young and competative. QB returns,three of the five o line returns of which 2 were sophmores,etc. I won’t compare the next years team to this years team. Best Mack Team of all time. 12-0. No JV? Our jv was our scout team this year. A game is 48 min. Practice is 2hrs a day 5 days a week.

  • JustMaybe

    Just asked since it’s this year’s team that’s getting all the attention. I hope Mack can continue their success especially after all the fuss. It’s not like you have had the same consistency year after year as most of the top teams.

  • Coach Mac

    Justmaybe

    Since the year 2000, Mack has won 5 Silver Bowls. This team won it 12-0 and played a competative preseason. This team also has the #1 defense in the eastbay.

  • Coach Mac

    Justmaybe

    I forgot to mention with all of 22 players.

  • JustMaybe

    Silver Bowls??? Not the discussion. If that were the case, then you would have been petitioning since 2000, right? The whole point is you’re trying to go to state because of how good THIS TEAM is. Although undefeated, many haven’t respected Mack because it is felt that your competition hasn’t been at the CIF level. So, when Mack changes its schedule in the future, will you be good enough to beat DII teams, go undefeated or even win the Silver Bowl????

  • http://ibabuzz.com Perkin

    The OAL was also horrible this year. Not nearly what its was 2001-2006. 2008 was also a good year. Pitt alright good win but come on lost 6 times & one & done when it mattered in the play-offs.

  • Sports Guy

    For all of you who think Mack doesn’t have a chance… This CIF says differently! Half of the teams ranked and are ineligible and after this weekend a few more will be ineligible.

    http://rise.espn.go.com/football/articles/2010/California/12/01-CIF-State-Bowl-Game-Rankings.aspx

  • JustMaybe

    I hope they do make it. Otherwise, next year when they’ve toughened their schedule and don’t qualify, everyone will blog about what coulda, shoulda, woulda been this year when they went 12-0, won the Silver Bowl, etc.

    GOOD LUCK COACH MAC!

  • XTower

    Great post, Jimmy.

  • coach mac

    justmaybe

    We won’t be D-2 we will be D-5 with the same talent. It just gets better.

  • JustMaybe

    Right. Good luck with that too Coach Mac!

  • Billjohnson

    Coach mac d5 next year huh good luck do they even televise that game. I would like to c u play central catholic from modesto or st.pats n non league there small. Not expecting u to go undefeated next year but is this a 1 year run or can we expect a run like the best of all time coach beams skyline boyz

  • coach mac

    billjohnson

    One game at a time my man.

  • T-Mobile 44

    Fire The OAL Commissioner! Join The NCS!

  • T-Mobile 44

    Coach Mac

    How would you compare to Concord High School this year?

  • Ivory

    Coach Mac-
    Congratulations on McClymonds undefeated season. I still bleed orange and black, having played on Mack’s 1st Silver Bowl team in 1987. There will always be those who will belittle and critique this year’s performance. There will be those who will question the scheduling and whether or not Mack could compete with this team or that team. Before considering the NCS, please evaluate the very few NCS teams (outside of DLS) that have actually played in the state championship game. The football state championship is still in its infancy stage, so changes are bound to be made in terms of consideration. Bottom line is that you’ve beaten everyone on your schedule, with many of the “quality” wins coming on the road. McClymonds has won state championships in basketball and track, so adding a state football title would be a great addition to an already full trophy case. I’m sure as a leader, you will do what is in the best interest of the program and I wish you the best in your future endeavors. Go Warriors, School of Champions!

  • Sports Guy

    Grant Loss last nite!