Draft review: 2002
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Friday, April 20th, 2007 at 12:34 pm in Oakland Raiders.
Eighth in a series reviewing Raiders’ draft classes since they returned to Oakland in 1995:
1/17_Phillip Buchanon, CB, Miami
1/23_Napoleon Harris, LB, Northwestern
2/53_Langston Walker, T, California
2/55_Doug Jolley, TE, Brigham Young
5/147_Kenyon Coleman, DE, UCLA
6/189_Keyon Nash, DB, Albany State
6/197_Larry Ned, RB, San Diego State
7/235_Ronald Curry, WR, North Carolina
The top picks_Oakland went through some draft gymastics to make sure it got Buchanon. First, the Raiders traded the No. 21 picked acquired from the Jon Gruden deal along with a third round pick (No. 89) and dealt it to Washington to move up to No. 18 overall. Then they dealt that No. 18 pick along with a fifth-rounder (No. 158) to get Buchanon.
Buchanon, initially an electrifying punt returner, with a penchant for making the occasional big play on defense, was such a liability in coverage Oakland finally _ and wisely _ gave up on him despite seven touchdowns in three seasons. Eventually, even the remarkable skill as a return artist left him.
Both Buchanon and Harris, the second first-round selection, carried themselves as if they were instant stars who had everything figured out. Buchanon, ironically, is in Tampa, trying to hang on. Harris signed a free agent deal with Kansas City, with the Chiefs likely to discover he grades out better on paper than on the field.
Could have had_Ed Reed, Buchanon’s college teammate at Miami and the playmaking young safety the Raiders have long sought, went at No. 24 to Baltimore, one pick after Harris. New Orleans defensive end Charles Grant went at No. 25.
Poker chips_Only the last player taken in this class remains with the team after Walker’s separture for an astonishing $10 million in guaranteed money. The Raiders will get a supplementary pick for that next year for Walker, who was never a standout either at guard or tackle. Jolley was eventually dealt for to the Jets. The Buchanon mistake was salvaged with the help of Houston, which dealt second- and third-round picks to get him. Harris went to Minnesota in the deal which sent Oakland’s first-rounder to the Vikings in exchange for Randy Moss.
Draft bargains_Curry went just after Washington took a defensive end named Greg Scott and before Baltimore took quarterback Wes Pate of Stephen F. Austin. He blossomed in 2004, helping push Tim Brown and Jerry Rice out the door, and withstood two Achiilles’ tears to lead the Raiders in receiving in 2006.
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April 20th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
Wow, we really suck at this thing called drafting….
April 20th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Yea we sucked recently. Fortunately, 2005 and 2006 are look like pretty good drafts.
If Gallery and Grove become salvagable, the the 2004 draft is pretty good too.
April 20th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
yes cause the old man is doing the drafting and he has lost his touch too find talent i hope he lets kif do the picking of players but pleas don’t pick quinn he has bust all over him.All you walter lovers that love him even the experts say he is a back up at best we need a starter not a 3rd string back up ppl come on get your head out of the sand.
April 20th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
All the supposed “experts” also said Drew Brees was a back up at best and that is why the Chargers drafted Phillip Rivers… Fact is last year was his first year playing in a horrible offense and behind a bad o-line, without his top 2 receivers and his starting RB… I think it’s a little unfair to judge him off last year.
April 20th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Eric, what makes you think Quinn will be a bust?? Strong work ethic, film room junky, desire/love for the game…..what more could you ask for?? He’s a student of the game, period.
April 20th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
I think this was a pretty good draft, they got some service out of this one. Buchannon aside Langston Walker had some good yrs IMO, recently signed huge contract, Doug Jolley, I liked him probably, for yrs it seemed the RAiders forgot about the TE position. Kenyon Coleman I thought got lost in the D-Line mix 4-3, 3-4 turmoil, and of course Ronald Curry.
I think if you go to any teams draft with hindsight you’ll find 2-3 servicable playere per year.
April 20th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Well, I’ve just returned from Raiders Headquarters (the bus stop across the street that is) nothing to report from here. I did see a big black Lincoln with big shiny rims and tinted windows go in though, couldn’t make the driver out. No sign of any of the top draft prospects. This is KoolKell reporting live from Raiders HQ. Out.
April 20th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
I don’t hink this draft was all that terrible. The top four picks all contributed and upon their combined departure netted us a total of 4 draft picks and Randy Moss. I thought Jolly should have been kept. Walker was servicable every season until the Art Shell disaster. Buchanon should’ve been used as a nickle back since he couldn’t cover m2m.
The whole could’ve had business is a bit silly since in most cases a lot of teams could’ve had.
In the 1st & 7th we got Buchanan $ Curry while Baltimore got Reed & Pate. Our two picks are still in the league, they got a stud and a dud.
April 20th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Plus why draft Reed when we had the “promising” Gibson from the year before? Which remind me why we shouldn’t draft a QB in the first unless we’re pretty sure he’s the guy. There will be 3 top notch QB’s next year and I’d hate to skip one because we thought we had it covered.
Has everyone noticed we seem best in the 2-4th rounds? Our 1st rounders haven’t been great. More reason to trade down and get TB’s 2-4th picks? Then we’d have 87 (or 8?) picks in the rounds we seem to do the best in.
April 20th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
I meant 7-8 picks in rounds 2-4. Our money time.
April 20th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
The reason why we do poorly in the 1st round is because we are always drafting for need instead of taking the best player available.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
My, my, my, Calvin Johnson smokes weed.
Now will all the people who questioned JR’s character in favor of the pristine Calvin Johnson revise their campaings talking points? Probably not. We’ll hear excuses like “hey everybody does it”, “Hey he’s no drug addict”. Then out of the other side of their mouths they’ll be on their hindlegs and moral authority blasting someone else’s percieved character weaknesses.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
I don’t get how we had 2 1st Round Picks and still Screwed the pooch. What a disaterous draft class this was. The Fact we could have had Ed Reed makes me sick (Curse you Derrick Gibson!)…Reed was picked after BOTH of our Picks ! We kind of made up for things later with Trades of all these Players and turned the into Good Picks such as Fabian Washington, although the Moss Trade isn’t looking too good now. I go with what Danny says in that we keep drafting for need instead of the best player on the board. Why all the “experts” think we just “have to” draft a QB with our first pick is Crazy. Russell’s lack of experience will almost require we bring him along slowly…how does that “help” us get the ball to our great Wideouts next year? It just makes no sense to me that that somehow “makes up” for us not Drafting Leinart, who was very NFL ready. I have no Problem with us Drafting Quinn, but not with the 1st pick when we know he’ll be there at #4…So if we’re smart we’ll make that deal with tampa after we Draft Cj and TB is on the clock with Quinn and/or Peterson is still on the Board! The fact that we are currently in Contract negotiations with CJ and JM shows classic Al Davis misdirection that we are instead targeting Quinn after a Trade down with Tampa…at least that’s what I hope…
April 20th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
I’m sure JR has smoked weed too, he just didn’t admit it. CJ passed the drug test at the combine, which goes to show he hasn’t smoked in awhile. I’m sure most athletes in the draft have tried weed at some point or another, including JR.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
The key to the article to pay attention to is he has TRIED weed not that he smokes weed.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Warren Sapp also “tried” weed too…yeah that made him suck too. Young College kids do some dumb things from time to time. Trying Weed and being a Pothead are totally different things. I don’t think this affects CJ one bit…If he had Failed Drug Tests??? then I would be worried, although I think Sapp had a Failed test comming out of College and that is why his stock fell at the time…
April 20th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
I like Quinn at #4 as well, but I fear that Cleveland will jump all over him at #3, thus bringing the Ohio native back home, so to speak.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
You have to commend the young man for having the nerve to own up and admit that he has made that mistake of smoking weed in the past… That is commendable considering most wouldn’t admit to it and it clearly shows that he doesn’t do it now or he wouldn’t have admitted to something like that.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
The Defense Rests.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
If anything, I respect the kid more for owning up to his faults. Like Michael said, I’m sure there are countless others who have tried it or smoke it and don’t have the balls to admit it. If fans couldn’t relate to CJ before because he was so “perfect” as Kiffin said, I bet they can now.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Does anybody remember when the Texans announced their intent last yr, before the actual draft? I think they had signed Mario before the draft. It’s a week before the draft and the consensus is still JR at #1. I’m feeling more & more confident.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
I smoked weed in 8th grade who gives a shit. Drop it. BS that the NFL let that out.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
It was at least 2 or 3 days before the draft, I think.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
The Texans could have easily traded out of the top pick, stockpiled draft picks and still got Mario Williams at least a spot or two, if not a few spots, later. They showed their cards way too early.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
If the Raiders were smart they wouldn’t sign either before the draft, I still believe the real value is in trading that #1 spot… Signing JR gives Detroit that power that we should have… Consider this JR has to sit for a year right, well Moss is gone for sure either this year or next and Porter’s contract voids after the season so that leaves JR with Curry, Gabriel, Morant, Buchanon and whoever else is on the roster hardly an all star cast
April 20th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Thanks, things should be firming up by mid-week, we’ll see.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
And that is why the Texans are drafting in the top 10 again because they make stupid decisions with their draft picks.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
No other teams signed the first pick that I can remember before the draft because they were all smart enough to know that a possibility of trading down can set your team up for a decade… One player does not make a team.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Quinn will be there at #4 because Cleveland will Draft Russell if we take CJ…the only team that might take Quinn is the lions, but I don’t think they’ll pass on Thomas. Heck even if they do Adrian Peterson will be there and I’m cool with that as well if we get more Compensation from tampa IF Quinn isn’t there…Also, we could always Keep CJ and take a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round. I can’t wait for the Draft if only to make KoolKell wrong.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
The Cowboys Signed Russell Maryland before they Drafted him #1. There’s a Team that built itself by Stockpiling Draft Picks….Hmmmm…Wonder if we should do that???
April 20th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Teams have been signing the #1 pick beforehand for years.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
Everyone keeps mentioning picking a QB in later rounds…..is everyone giving up on AW being the starter this year?? Is that the concensus?
April 20th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
This is one of the most difficult drafts ever to grade. Buchanan, Harris and Jolley all made major contributions to the AFC championship team. But then Buchanan turned to absolute shit and Jolley wasn’t much better. Puzzling. At least we got something for Harris — or is obtaining Moss a good or a bad thing?
Walker had his moments. His blocked field goal in the snow versus the Broncos preserved our last divisional win, don’t forget.
Curry is the one unqualified success. Assuming he can stay healthy, of course.
April 20th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
If we draft AP, what do we do about the crowded backfield situation?
April 20th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
I’m not Giving up on AW. I like AW, but we do need Depth at the Position. If a QB is on our Board as the Best Player available on that pick then we take him…heck that’s exactly what we did when we drafted Walter in the 3rd round in ‘05 you never know when you might find the next Joe Montana or Tom Brady…I think Walter Starts next year no matter who we draft.
April 20th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
yes i have giving up on walter he’s not a leader i mean dont get me wrong if he is our ob i want him too do good but i jut don’t see it. So ppl youmean too tell me that walter is as good as marc wilson or jay shrader and all they did was lead there teams too the playoffs with same offense think about that . how did you feel about wilson and jay as you ob?
April 20th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
You can never have too many quality RB’s and none on the current roster is the Quality of AP . That’s also the same kind of thinking that kept us from Drafting Leinart, Ed Reed and why we may indeed draft Jamarcus Russell…because he’s what we “NEED”…and not the best Player available. Jordan and Fargas are expendable as well… we can cut them with little to no Cap penalty.
April 20th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
I always thought the argument for drafting AP was better than CJ. The Running Back is the Quaterbacks best friend., and can dominate a game and carry an offense.
April 20th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I am not ready to give up on Walter and the difference between Wilson and Shroeder were the talent around them… The O-line especially was never bad when they played and do I even need to mention who was the RB’s behind those two guys?
April 20th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Marc Wilson was just to Frail and skinny to handle the Pro Game. A stiff wind would blow him over…
Jay Schreoder was a Ticking time bomb…just like the Bears’ Rex Grossman. You just knew that at some time during the game he was going to uncork a truely horrible pass that just makes you go HUH? what the F_ck did he see there? That’s quintuple coverage!?
I don’t see those qualites in Walter…at least not yet. When Shoop was calling the plays he was completing 60-70% of his passes, ans Just ask the Bears Shoop sucks as a playcaller. that just goes to show you just how bad last years offensive system really was.
April 20th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
The Raiders won’t cut Jordan after they just gave him that 3 million dollar bonus. Comparing Wilson and Scrotum to last years offense is not fair…..that B&B bullshit actually worked once upon a time….over 15 years ago, when the game was a lot slower and the offenses and defenses less complex.
April 20th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
JaMarcus Russell | 6′6″ | 260 pounds | LSU
JaMarcus Russell completed 493 of 797 pass attempts for 6,625 yards, 52 TDs and 21 INTs during his time at LSU. In 2006, he threw for 3,129 yards and 28 TDs.
Brady Quinn | 6′4″ | 230 pounds | Notre Dame
Brady Quinn completed 929 of 1,602 pass attempts for 11,762 yards, 95 TDs and 39 INTs in four years at Notre Dame. In 2006, he threw for 3,426 yards and 37 TDs.
April 20th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Those late 80’s Early 90’s teams were stacked with talent. Just think if we would have kept Shanahan not put both Marcus Allen and Steve Buerlien in the Dog house and Definitely NOT traded away the best LT of his Era Jim Lachey for Sex Cannon Sr. Jay Schroeder? We would have won a few Superbowls I think…And I know we wouldn’t have lost 51-3 in AFC Championship Game!!!
April 20th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
I live in Idaho (or, more accurately, am in exile here). Fifteen years ago is about right. That’s where we are at present in the state of potatoes and sheep. Poor Tom Walsh; he probably thought he was on the cutting edge.
April 20th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Is it just me, or does Solomon Wilcots shout a lot?
April 20th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Carson Palmer was signed by Cincy well ahead of the draft.
Pretty funny hearing complaints about players who have smoked weed, when about 75% of the people at the Coliseum are high going into the game (and continue to fire up in the 3rd deck).
Actually, make that 100% of the people due to secondary contact…..since you have to walk through the tailgate parties in the parking lot to get in.
Gut feeling looking back at this draft in 5 years…..Adrian Peterson will be the most dominating player.
April 20th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
I smoked weed too. Maybe that explains why I’m typing so slowly. Anyway, when the best player to come out of a draft is a seventh round receiver who has torn his achilles twice and will probably continue to fight that injury(just a prediction) and has raider fans ready to put him in a class with so many great receivers from the past, I think a lot of people are smoking weed. If he can stay healthy all season I will jump on the bandwagon, but until hten I wouldn’t count on Curry to strike fear into too many DBs in the league.
April 20th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Glad when Buchanon wen to Houston and doubly glad he never pulled a Woodsen and resurged after we let him go.
Yuck! Gibson, Woodsen, Buchanon, good riddance!
What a total gyp.
Kind though Asomugha wouldn’t pan either, but lo an behold he came on like a house a fire in 06.
No choice in 07 if he does it again. Have to give him the money he’ll demand to extend his contract.
Unless Stanford Routt starts blowin’ it up…
April 20th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
Kiffin may have been selected, among other things, for his talent aquisition skills at USC.
He supposedly has a knack for reading young players abilities mentally and physically and how they’ll translate on and off the field.
Don’t think he’s partial to Russell. Seems to damn him with feignt praise.
No idea how he feels about Quinn, though his tendency to disappear in big games has to be a concern.
As far as CJ, Kiffin calls him “Perfect.”
April 28th!
A new era of Oakland dominance begins…
I love how its going to suprise the sh*t out of everyone but Oakland fans.
April 20th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Return to Glory, baby…..Return to Glory!!!
April 20th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Greetings Raider Faithful..I am back the lone Raider Fan from Miami in this forum. Just wanted to inquiry about the comments posted by Ryan regarding former USC players (Jarrett and Khalil) not liking Kiffen??
Can anyone source this info. just for curiousity. I know its not important with the draft a week away just curious….Was hoping we took a look at Khalil in round 2.
Dont fret guys..nothing we can do at this point but HOPE and PRAY we select CJ with the #1 pick..at least thats what I will be doing every night before the 28th.
Merry Christmas lets hope Santa delivers the All-Pro Perennial wideout to change the game!
April 20th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
If we draft Russell which I think is a bad idea…at least we have Walter because he will be the starter for 1-2 years considering the all great and powerful Russell is not ready to play in the NFL and will have to sit so he can be ready. His 80 throws may not be seen until 2010 but hes obviously worth the #1 pick right? Maybe Walter will do well during the time Russell will be sitting and we can at least play well during these next 2 years.
April 20th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
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April 20th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
why would JR not be ready for the NFL? You say “hike” take the ball, hand it to a RB, or pass it to someone with the same color jersey. These guys have been playing football for YEARS. V young, E. Manning, Leinhart, even CUTLER played their first year in the league. Will he put up Manning / T. Brady numbers? NO. ROTHELISBURGER?????? “Experience is an entity wasted on old fools” You learn to feel Merriman BY SEEING HIM BARRELING DOWN ON YOUR ASS. You learn that you can’t throw over Ed Reed by……making a rookie mistake and throwing to Ed Reed. You can only learn the speed / mechanics of the game by playing the game. Draft JR and get his ass in there.
April 20th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
MD Raider - Sounds like Andrew Walter should be the starter considering he learned the game by playing the game. It is the scouts and all the media who feel the Raiders should draft JR. It is the scouts and all the media who feel he should sit for a year or two while they groom him. I believe he should have played is senior season in college, you know, the college where people were saying Russell would probably lose his starting job this season to another QB. Not good enough to start your senior season but good enough to start for the Raiders right? If you look at all the drafts Jerry McDonald is throwing at us, you will find Jamarcus Russell’s name there 5-10 years from now and think exactly what you see now. What were we thinking?
April 20th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
I hear what you’re saying, but they weren’t high on V. Young either and look what he did. How high up Eli’s arse were they when he came out? And I also look at the media for what they are also - have you every watched that show “Around the Horn”? I lost all respect for “experts” and “writers” after watching those guys.
April 20th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Plus - they $hit on the Raiders whenever they have a chance too. not an original thought among them. There are more thoughtful and meaty comments here in ONE post then there are in one week of shows.
April 20th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Vince Young has only played one year…thats it. Vick wasn’t half bad when he first started either because he was running all over the place. Well, Vick is still running all over the place and he isn’t any better. Young does not have a good supporting cast on offense or defense and hes going to decline because of it. He can only run so much before he ends up injured all the time because of the hits he is going to take. Running QB’s are forced to sit in the pocket later in their careers because they get beat up too much and if Vince Young is forced to sit in a pocket and not use his legs…you will have another Vick. Young probably looked good because it wasn’t Kerry Collins.
April 20th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Eli Manning was drafted because of his dad Archie Manning and Peyton Manning’s success not because of his own. They were talking about how bad his mechanics are on ESPN today. His mechanics were just what they are now in college. Nothing has changed but now its a problem because he is not winning. Granted…Eli has a bad coach and a bunch of bad attitude players but thats where his daddy wanted to go and instead of being his own leader and going to the Chargers, he took his daddy’s advice and look at where that got him. He wasn’t a leader then…he had bad mechanics then…and he still does. Not every Manning in life is going to be successful.
April 20th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
MD Raider - You know what I say to them? Fuk em!!! They’re wrong just as many times as us if not more. They just happened to get paid to be wrong. They got into the right job by sucking d!ck or they simply were in the right place at the right time. Some people get in by association. Most of the time you get a job because of WHO you know, not WHAT you know. Examples are Mel Kiper JR (Might as well be Dr. Phil) and John Clayton. JOHN CLAYTON? Can you imagine that guy playing football? And hes the guy writing sports articles. Whatever.
April 20th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
I agree with you on the running part. They better tell Vick to keep it in the pocket, V young too. But do you honestly think that B. Quinn can put a team on his back and win the big game? AFC Championship, Denver, KC, SD. Maybe against the niners or texans. Do you think he can lead an offense like Brady or direct one like Manning? he may have a great work ethic - but the ND games I saw (very few I admit) he just sort of looked like E. Manning - kinda lost and he had samarja to bail him out quit a bit.
April 20th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
If you had the team Notre Dame fielded…you too would be a deer in headlights my friend. He had no offensive line, a WR who left to play baseball after the season and a RB who knew how to take a handoff. Does anybody know any of these guys? The defense? Please. Yet Quinn threw 37 TD’s? Quinn made Notre Dame. Quinn is the reason Notre Dame was even in a bowl game.
People said Peyton Manning couldn’t win the big game either. Took Manning 8 years but he still got it done. I’ll take 8 years of great football by my QB if it means we’ll win the Superbowl in 8 years with many successful teams in between.
Vick and Young cannot be pocket passers because they are not. The reason they are in the NFL is because they can run. Thats like forcing Jamarcus Russell to run the West Coast offense. He can’t play that game. He needs to throw 80 yard passes because that is the oly reason the Raiders would draft him. Hah.
April 20th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
I’m gonna take a break from blogging. I don’t know WHO or what Raiders gonna do, the sites have them taking Russell 100%. I posted all I could giving my opinions as a pro football fans. I’m gonna wait and see till April 28. Let’s hope the Raiders get it right this time. LOL
April 20th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Point taken.
April 20th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
Huff… agree with you completely about Eli. He may turn out to be OK, but I saw him play in college and couldn’t believe the hype. Now, JR may not pan out; I’m not a scout, coach or GM, but he sure does look a helluva lot better than Eli did in college. He just looks natural, and relaxed back there. I know their respective skillset is different, but he really reminds me, temperament-wise, of Vince Young. Doesn’t get rattled, and I think that’s a real important for a QB. I think that’s what makes VY special (notwithstanding his physical skills, of course); you just know the guy’s going to find a way. You could go back a few years, and we had a guy that, no matter how bad things looked, you just knew it wasn’t over. His name was Kenny Stabler. As I recall, it took him awhile to get the game down, but when he did it was lights out for the other guys. And he was from the SEC (that was for you, CT… lol).
As I said, I don’t profess to be an expert, but to me JR just seems to have that certain something that all the winners have.
April 20th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
sorry huff24 V Young is special, did you not see the rose bowl? how about the the last game of the season when they were knocked out? the guy has heart and he will succeed. Eli also has a real need to win.
April 20th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
The only thing I noticed about Kenny Stabler were his stats. I’m 24 and never had the opportunity to watch the guy play but I was not impressed by his stats when he played for the Raiders. I cannot judge that alone but I know the Raiders defense back then was extremely intimidating and I’m guessing they won alot of games for them. Stabler won 1 Superbowl right? Plunkett won the other 2 I believe. Something tells me the Raiders could have won more if they had a much better QB than Stabler but thats just my guess as I didn’t live through that era.
Stirling - I’m certainly not taking away what Vince Young did last year. He did a great job no doubt. The Championship against USC was a joke because he didn’t win as a QB, he basically won as a runningback and the defense did not make the necessary adjustments to stop him which was completely disappointing considering they had the coaching and defense to do so. I don’t want to take away from Young but he was completely predictable during that game and the coaches didn’t take advantage of it. It was obvious Young was going to run all game after the first 5 runs. I would have done something to stop him even if I had to shadow him with 2 linebackers. Just my take.
April 20th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
I like a quarterback who is willing to put in the work to be great. If JaMarcus Russell shows up at the combine overweight, that tells me he’s not taking the game seriously and I wonder about his leadership skills. Just because he can throw the ball 80 yards doesn’t show me anything. Kyle Boller threw the ball through the goalposts on his knees from midfield and Baltimore was dumb enough to take him in the first round because of that (nice job Brain Billick). That’s a great clip for youtube, but it hasn’t translated to the NFL. Russell has Akili Smith/J.P. Losman written all over him. I say trade down with Tampa Bay, take Brady Quinn (a young Rich Gannon) at No. 4, select Dwayne Jarrett in Round 2 then load up on OTs and D-linemen. Brady Quinn wants to be great. JaMarcus Russell wants to get paid.
April 20th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Well since we’re on the topic of whether or not it’s relevant that the upcoming draft picks tried weed or not…HAPPY 420!!!
April 20th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
Huff, back in the Stabler days, it was a different game with different type players. Art Shell for example was considered big at 285 lbs. Defensive linemen were 240-265 normally. And, nowhere near as fast as today’s players. One of the biggest differences was that QB’s called their own game. That was one of Stabler’s strong suits. He called great strategic games. He was an excellent field general. But, he, nor Shell and many other Raider stars could not play well in today’s game. There were a couple that could play with today’s game and they included Ted Hendricks, John Matusak, George Atkinson, Jack Tatum, Willie Brown, Marcus Allen and Cliff Branch come to mind.
In the old days there was no slow motion replays, wireless communication between the players and coaching staff and instant photography of the last play faxed to the field. It was just plain vanilla basic football. Oh, there was also a product called stick-up made famous by Lester “the Molester” Hayes and Fred Billetnikoff. They almost had to take a ball out of play once it had been touched by either player.
I’ll end with a Stabler play often used in dire situations called the Drew Buie pass interference play. Most old timers will know this play well.
April 20th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
That was Stick-um not stick-up. Sorry for the typo.
April 20th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
i’m glad we’re only a week away because i,’m getting blue in the face…..
does everyone here know who reggie ball is?? he is (was) the QB for georgia tech. an inconsistant QB, he has virtually no shot of hearing his named called next weekend. most would describe his play as inconsistant or even just plain bad at most times during his GT career. despite his shortcommings, he still “managed” to find calvin johnson 75 times last year, including 15 times for paydirt. CJ made his QB better.
this leads me to the current QB for the oakland raiders, andrew walter. who here believes ball is a better QB than walter?? who here believes ball has a better arm than walter?? more intangables?? if CJ can turn in those kind of stats with a marginal ACC QB , what do you think he’ll do as walter’s main target?? i’d be willing to bet a lot of you don’t envision AW as our future, but let’s face the facts: walter is an NFL QB…and CJ will make him a better one!!
i’ve ripped on jamarcus russell in the past and i’m through with it. having said that, i still believe(IMO), russell will be a bust comparable to ryan leaf. i just truly believe he’s simply just too good to be true and we’re suckers if we take him.
of course, if we do take russell, i hope i’m completely wrong!!!!
April 20th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
ALL A SMOKESCREEN ON 420 DAY!
- A team leaks that 3 top players tried weed. Why? They hope one drops to them.
- Detroit says they won’t trade McCown. Why? They want Oakland to draft JR so thy have the CJ trade power.
- KC stalls the trade of Green to Miami. Why? They want Oakland to draft JR and not pass on him for Culpepper.
- Secretive Oakland announces they will start talks with CJ & JR. Why? To put pressure on teams to trade for CJ. Also, if they trade down everybody thinks they want JR and their real target may be someone else.
Oakland puts Moss & Porter on the trade block. Why? More indication they’ll take CJ if nobody pays them enough in a trade.
When teams leak this info ask yourself why they’d let that out. As for KC, they obviously think a battered Culpepper or T Green is more dangerous to them than JR. They’d trade Green to Oakland if they thought Russell was going to be any good. If your competition wants you to do something yu need to wonder why.
April 20th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
I can’t believe I might be forced into believing in a player I don’t believe in. I will have no other choice but to root for him because he might just be the future QB of the Oakland Raiders. As much as I like Huff, I really wish we took Matt Leinart because he would be a year ahead and we could draft Calvin Johnson with no questions asked. Leinart was a shoe in for a pick and we passed him up which is like passing up Reggie Bush, just not as flashy.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:01 am
When we draft CJ we definetly won’t trade him. Moss or porter maybe but not CJ, younge and better. I agree teams below the Raiders are leaking the weed stuff because they want CJ to drop, namely Tampa.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:02 am
I mean Tampa is leaking the weed stuff, damn tired and drunk!
April 21st, 2007 at 12:03 am
Coach on Wheels - Very powerful. Great observation in putting all that together and it seems as though everyone is trying to play the JR game with the Raiders while the Raiders are smart enough to counter back with their own games and truthfully, the Raiders have always been good at it so what you say makes all the sense in the world. I’m just literally worried that the Raiders would do such a stupid thing but I can see your logic. I just hope it turns in our favor.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:07 am
Andrew Walter put up compariable stats to Leinart last season with far less talent. If you watch Walters highlights on video, he makes som great plays avoiding the rush. Last year was a disaster but Walter showed leadership in publicly asking for more short drops and getting in Shell’s doghouse. He also took more responsibility than he needed for the offense. He didn’t blame his WR’s (ala Vick) or his line or even his coaches. He has the makings of a guy teammates respect.
By the way, Walter was a 1st round pick who dropped because of a shoulder injury his senior year. Talent-wise he is 1st round quality. He showed flashes of this under Turner.
Walter’s QB rating jumped 10 pts when Walsh was demoted.
Walter has a 78 rating when trailing by 9 to 16 points. Leinart has a 32. AW gets better when the heat is on to comeback.
AW deserves a chance.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:07 am
I’m sure if we were to go ahead and draft Calvin Johnson for ourselves, the trade for Moss would go through without a problem and even a trade for McCown. The only thing pending those trades is whether we pick CJ or not. This draft is going to be extremely interesting and I cannot believe how much influence CJ has put on all these teams. Do you know how many trades could go down within the first 10 picks? This might as well be Vegas because there is more gambling going on than anything. It’s like picking a horse to win and we’re just waiting for the race to happen. This sport has taken over and I believe it is definately bigger than Baseball in today’s world.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:14 am
Coach on Wheels - I am a Brady Quinn guy as far as the draft but that is because I believe he is a franchise QB and could have a similiar career to that of Peyton Manning however I do not have a problem getting CJ and letting AW start because I do believe he has the potential to be great and had he not hurt his quad or groin his rookie season, Turner probably would have started Walter in place of Collins and Turner could have probably had another year to go instead of being fired. If we start AW and draft CJ then I think we should either trade for McCown just for competition purposes and depth or save that draft pick for ourselves and sign Tim Rattay for that depth and veteran leadership. I’m not sure whether McCown would succeed but I feel confident that Rattay would if pressed into action. Even Moss for Rodgers and a draft pick is still possible. As long as we have depth because I don’t want to see anotehr year where a Billy Joe Hobert or a Vince Evans or someone like those guys have to come in and start. If that happens, just shoot me now.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:18 am
Hey Huff - using the “JR beat BQ” logic, “Walter beat Leinart”. LOL Take heart, I really don’t think JR fits our offense and the more I see how bad our competition wants us to take JR, I’ve got to hope the Raiders see this too. To me it is just so telling when KC would do everything they could to get Oakland to pass on the next “John Elway”. The fact that KC seems to be trying to manipulate us into grabbing JR is the biggest red flag yet.
I remember the Briar Fox story as a kid. The media guys who don’t like Oakland, the KC Chiefs, and so on all keep beating the JR drum and it stinks.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:25 am
I wouldn’t mind BQ at #4. I also wouldn’t mind MCCown or Rattay. Plus there are 3 1st round QBs coming out next year. This includes USC’s Booty I believe. Revamp our line play. Improve our WR’s. (CJ and Curry would be big over last years Moss/Whitted), Get some RB play out of Rhodes and see what Jordan has left.
Solid D and Running will take the pressure off any QB. Plus when AW can throw a 6 yard slant to CJ and watch him turn on the 4.31 afterburners for 80 yards, that’s much better than lobbing 60 yarders downfield hoping Moss or Porter come up with it.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:46 am
Something we haven’t considered. How well does the Raiders running game play out if Dominic Rhodes runs 3.4 ypc during the regular season like he did last season? Lamont Jordan will have to pick up the slack big time with that kind of number and will he be able to? I would just rather drop Fargas and pick up Corey Dillon if he was willing. We will probably draft a RB in the draft but we haven’t been drafting RB’s as of late for quite sometime. Fargas was the last one wasn’t he and hes been here for 5 years. Rhodes will be better at catching out of the backfield at least.
I wouldn’t mind having Colt Brennan in next years draft. More than likely he won’t get picked highly because he plays for Hawaii and Hawaii doesn’t seem to be publicized or scouted as heavily.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:49 am
I know Colt is a QB…kind of went off subject there.
April 21st, 2007 at 4:22 am
What about Lavar Arrington on the cheap? Good guy, injury prone but seems like a great locker room presence to offset the whiny offensive guys. Big personality - I’ve seen how the media embraced here due to his playing in the NFC East. Brings more ATTITUDE and FIRE to the S&B.
April 21st, 2007 at 6:14 am
Picking up Arrington has been in the back of my mind for a while, if the price is right. If we dump Moss and free up his cap space, it’s a possibility. Health permitting, he’d help against both the run and the pass. Our main need on D is another big run-stuffing roothog in the interior line, but Arrington would definitely give offensive coordinators something else to worry about. Perhaps this will come to pass after the draft. Moss won’t be moved before then.
In 2002, I recall that Buchanan was originally rated as a top-five pick, then started sliding down the draft boards as the draft neared. In retrospect, I guess a lot of personnel people were scared off by his character issues. Al obviously got all excited as he kept slipping lower, and talked himself into moving up to grab him. I must admit I liked the pick at the time as well. Too bad the guy turned out to be a major flake. Although a bit on the small side, he did have amazing natural ability. He just wouldn’t listen to the coaches.
The word on Harris going into the draft was that he had great speed and athleticism, but lacked instinct, and blew lots of assignments. He was simply a gamble that didn’t pay off.
Jolley was a receiving TE with poor blocking skills. He actually played quite well his first season, then regressed afterwards. He didn’t do squat with the Jets either.
Curry was a college QB who was drafted as a project. No one could have known how well he would make the switch to WR. Just goes to show that even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.
Overall, this draft was another in a series of stinkers (With the exception of Curry). We’d best hope Big Al turns the reigns over to Kiff next Saturday. He has a good read on the talent pool, and knows what kind of players he requires to run his offense. I’m starting to lean towards trading down a few spots and hoping Quinn or Russell are still there. If not, we can grab Thomas, then one of the other QBs with one of our extra picks. No matter how you slice it, that o-line needs upgrading.
April 21st, 2007 at 6:26 am
Good morning everyone… my comment about Stabler was his ability to be calm under pressure. Having a great team around him didn’t hurt, but I know you old timers remember his knack for getting the job done in the clutch. He and Madden were quite the pair; Madden tearing his hair out and screaming at anyone within earshot (usually the referees), and Kenny coming over to the sideline saying, “Calm down, John, we’re doing fine, don’t worry.” Classic comedy, if there wasn’t so much at stake most of the time.
As for his lone Super Bowl win, keep in mind that two of football’s greatest dynasties were in the AFC at the time. The three best teams in football, by far, were the Raiders, Dolphins and Steelers. We played in the AFC title game or the semis virtually every year during that period, at one point three conference title games in a row.
Guys with that attitude don’t come along too often; Montana had it, and so did Elway and Favre. Brady has it now, and I see it in Vince Young. They just win, baby.
April 21st, 2007 at 7:07 am
RFB - good memories of “Snake”…even if he did come from that QB graveyard, the SEC…LOL.
HUFF24 - Stabler was as a cool as ice. I remember when the Raiders were playing the Colts in 1977 Divisional Round. Game is in OT. Stabler walks to the sideline. Madden is all fired up and stressed out wondering what Snake was going to do next(Snake called all his own plays back then). Madden looks at Stabler waiting for that gem of a play that is going to get us into the AFC Title Game vs Denver. Madden waits…and waits. Stabler looks around the stadium, leans over to Madden and says…..”fans got their monies worth today.”
That was Snake. Ice froze a little bit colder next to him. Raiders won of course. He career stats showed him to be average. As a field general, he was second to NONE.
April 21st, 2007 at 7:09 am
I actually got goose bumps telling that Stabler story….good sh*t.
April 21st, 2007 at 7:57 am
Lance Johnstone was cut. We better hurry and get a Burgess deal done. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to see the Raiders take adefensive player in the 1st rd. I’m not saying I agree, I just wouldn’t be surprised. In a way it would be friggin’ hilarious. Watch all these people dabate JR vs. BQ vs. CJ. only to see the Raiders take a DT.
April 21st, 2007 at 8:05 am
No problem with the Raiders taking defense in round 1, as long as it is after trading from #1 to #4 and then down again.
April 21st, 2007 at 8:49 am
M.I.A.,
Kalil dissed the Raiders on the NFL Network. He joked about being drafted by the Raiders number one overall, laughed and said “No (ha ha ha), not the Raiders.”
Sounded to me like he didn’t want to be a Raider.
April 21st, 2007 at 8:57 am
1 week to go. The silence is deafening.
April 21st, 2007 at 9:17 am
Obviously Leinart is going to be a stud on passing him over for Huff was a mistake. He may have not had the “stats” last year, but he made a big change in the D whenever he had to cover the TE. Last year was the first time in years the other teams TE didn’t blow us up.
There are many people in this blog who consistently rip him. This year he doesn’t have to “think” as much as he can react more. He’s going to be stud this year.
He’s not chump change like I keep hearing.
April 21st, 2007 at 9:29 am
Kiffin and Knapp actually prefer BQ over JR. Read Jerry’s Blog about how the longest passes at the mini-camp were only 15 yards. They feel BQ is much more suited for htis offense. Still the plan is to take CJ and see who ponies up AND what is left at #4. If BQ is there, then they will have a decision to make.
Al Davis wants CJ. Kiffin and Knapp do NOT want JR at all.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:25 am
Huff24 - Snake’s stats were pretty good in the mid 70s, but he was always a little interception prone because he was a soft tosser and he gambled a lot. He continued to play long after his velocity left him, and his late career stats show decline, so his career numbers look worse overall. Passing stats are better now than they used to be. Average rating now is almost 80, back then it was around 70.
But when he was with us in the mid 70s - magic. We always had faith with the game late and close. There was a way about it … hard to describe. Sorry you missed it. CT-Raider is right, you had to be there to really see what all those old timers are talking about.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:48 am
I’m just worried a guy like Jamarcus Russell is going to come in here with those 70’s stats. Those stats don’t work in today’s NFL and he can be as cool as ever but how cool is 3 interceptions? Not very cool for a #1 pick and thats my huge concern. I have no problem with a guy who is going to be calm and take over a game but what if the game takes over him? I just remember Aaron Brooks being a calm and collected QB and look what happened with him. Another thing is, look how much money players make today. Stabler didn’t make that kind of money but if he did..would he still be the same player? Russell will dig having all the money He may care more about that than anything.
Quinn is the QB that is supposed to come from behind…not Russell.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:55 am
I’m not surprised to see Brad Badger and Lance Johnstone cut. We need to make room for those positions because we are going to draft a Guard a Defensive End and we’re going to fill the team with youth and get rid of the older non productive players. I like Badger but we are overstacked with players at the position and we need to get better. Johnstone could have been effective but he cannot stay healthy in a Raider uniform and we have Huntley. We saved ourselves 1.6 mil and will need every penny to help sign our draft picks. Lets clean house.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Where did you read about Badger and Johnstone getting cut? I haven’t read that anywhere.
April 21st, 2007 at 12:09 pm
ESPN.com
April 21st, 2007 at 12:10 pm
NEW BLOG UP
April 21st, 2007 at 12:14 pm
The following article although two days old is very interesting to me and some of you may not be aware of this rumor. Here is the link and the headline (not right to take whole article out).
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
POSTED 9:34 a.m. EDT; UPDATED 9:57 a.m. EDT, April 19, 2007
RAIDERS GETTING FLOODED WITH CALLS
The bottom line is there may be very strong interest with teams wanting to trade up especially teams that have a hole at wide reciever and have the fire power to come up either by using players at positions they have depth at or by force of draft picks. Two of the most likely suspects mentioned are:
1. Tampa Bay (trade all first day picks this year or a combination of this years and next years picks including #4 overall)
2. Atlanta (trade #8 overall along with picks of their own and picks from Texans trade)
3. Washington (trade #6 plus key players Oakland might want and they don’t need)
In my mind JR is not worthy of the 1st overall pick. He has questions about work ethic, decision making, weight and frankly did not have all that spectacular of a season especially against teams like Florida! CJ is worthy of the first pick and is this years Reggie Bush. Not every draft has a Reggie Bush in that one player stands out from the others but I just don’t see WR being a team need especially with Porter comming around and the emergence of Morant a possibility as well as Curry being so good.
I really think the Raiders are going to trade down and I hope they do. If they do they can get Quinn or Peterson (one or the other) with the fourth pick. If they get Peterson they can trade for McCown or sign Rattay and pick up Stanton/Edwards in the 2nd/3rd round (who seems like a very good fit for our offense. If they get Quinn, they will not want to make many QB moves which may explain why the did not go after Carr or have signed Rattay yet. Frankly the more I researched Carr the more I was hoping we did not sign him. Seems more like a tackling dummy and interception machine than a real QB. Detriot by trying to blackmail Oakland into drafting JR to get more value with the second pick may be playing right into this.
My only fear is we will take CJ and keep him and I know the logic of this. Moss will be gone inside of a month one way or the other. Porter is in the last year of a contract and Curry is injury prone and Morant et al. are at this point only potential. I really hope we avoid this temptation because the WR position is deep this year and we maybe could get a decent WR in the 2nd round to develop and Porter and Curry with the other young recievers is good enoough for this year. I can live with this logic but I do not think it is the best outcome. The other reason that we may do this is because no one gave us enough to trade down for.
If we take JR I will be shocked and dissapointed but will still root for the Raiders but it would show that Davis has senility issues. JR will (if he ever develops) take at least 2 years to develop and it is going to be ugly and we are going to be committed to it because we just spent all our cap space on him and we will probably lose Aso and/or Burgess in the process. Bad seasons will put pressure on Al to replace Kiffen even though the situation was not his fault because we created a bad dynamic by getting JR. By the way everyone of these sportswriters that says we should take JR I think are idiots that do not understand the dynamics of the salary cap and what the real state of the Raiders is. I wonder if they know much about any of the teams!
Anyways I think the Raiders have a window here to really get better and begin to be a Wildcard type team because the defense is really playoff caliber. The offense just needs to get average this year and we are in good shape. I think the fastest way there is with Peterson and get FA QBs but I guess that is just my opinion.
April 21st, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Michael-
Although I didn’t hear the Kalil interview, I wouldn’t read too much into it. He’s got a great sense of humor and ripping on people is just a part of that. It’s likely nothing more than good natured ribbing based on how much we’ve sucked tha past few years..
April 21st, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Good Day Raider Faitful, I have been doing more reading than posting these days just panic stricken for this Draft! But no one in this forum echoed my sentiment to the T as just posted by
1960Autumn Wind…..Great analysis on the power of our pick and the personnel needed to become contenders again.
Excellent insight Autumn wind…just now if Mr. Davis executed this scenario is another thing!
April 21st, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Autumn wind - Porter and Moss are gone next year for sure. WR is a need.
April 21st, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Interesting Quote from Phil Savage, Cleveland Browns which hold pick #3…..
Savage doesn’t have a solid feel for what the black-and-silver intend to do. He’s guessing they’ll focus on Russell and Quinn or maybe Johnson, widely considered the best player in this year’s class.
“Or they might trade out,” said Savage, who was asked if the Raiders and Lions might be agreeable to dealing with the Browns. “I would say that they are willing to listen. We’re willing to listen, too. One of the GMs e-mailed me yesterday and I said that we were open for anything. I think that’s part of the process right now.”
Savage spent a portion of his news conference gushing about Johnson, the 6-foot-5 freakishly fast wideout who dazzled scouts by being timed in 4.35 seconds in the 40-yard dash at the NFL combine.
Savage also noted Johnson’s vertical jump (42.5 inches) and broad jump (11-foot-7) before listing reasons why the Browns might pick him.
“There aren’t many of these types of guys walking around,” he said. “People might ask why the Browns would take a wideout. The reason is that he affects coverage. He probably makes your running game better. He would fit in a formidable group of skill players. This guy is a big-time talent, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see him go No. 1.
“He’s deserving of that accolade if that happens.”
A service of the Associated Press(AP)
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:26 am
Trust in Kiffin, dude knows talent! Regardless of who they draft? I know that Al will give the kid what ever he needs! Otherwidse Lane would never have accepted the Job.
This is not a throwaway deal for him. Kiffin is commited to winning and has all of the tools needed to do so…
I feel we have the potential to have a winning season and if that’s the case “Our Man Kiffin” Will be Coach of the Year!!!
I want Russell but If the kid doesn’t take him then I will be very dissapointed but will bowe to his talent to spot and build talent!!!
I’m exited and Looking foward to this thing getting started…
Always remember, we are a nation, the only nation, The RAIDER NATION!!!
February 3rd, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Executing a Stock Market Trade…
There are two basic ways to execute a trade, on the exchange floor or electronically. With the ever changing technological advancements in this day and age, there is a drive to move more trading to the networks and off the trading floors, however this …