Draft review: 2005
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Monday, April 23rd, 2007 at 11:57 am in Oakland Raiders.
Eleventh in a series reviewing Raiders’ draft classes since they returned to Oakland in 1995:
1/23_Fabian Washington, CB, Nebraska
2/38_Stanford Routt, CB, Houston
3/69_Andrew Walter, QB, Arizona State
3/78_Kirk Morrison, LB, San Diego State
6/175_Anttaj Hawthorne, DT, Wisconsin
6/212_Ryan Riddle, LB, California
6/214_Pete McMahon, T, Iowa
The top pick_A 4.29 time in the 40-yard dash at the NFL scouting combine put Washington at the top of the list and caused the Raiders to maneuver back into the first round to get him.
Oakland dealt its No. 7 overall choice to Minnesota, along with LB Napoleon Harris, to acquire Randy Moss. The Raiders dumped Phillip Buchanon for second- and third-round draft picks, then traded one of those picks and tight end Doug Jolley to the New York Jets to get back into the first round.
To ensure they aqcuired Washington, Oakland dealt a fourth round pick to go from No. 26 to 23.
Washington started slowly but was a solid corner by season’s end. He made a quantum leap in 2006 training camp, where he might have been Oakland’s best defensive player. Washington had four interceptions last season opposite Nnamdi Asomugha, and although he struggled at times, has looked like an excellent choice so far.
Could have had_Seattle selected USC LB Lofa Tatupu in the second round, behind both Washington and second-round pick Routt. To be fair, a lot of teams blew it on Tatupu, an instant star, and the Raiders did pretty well themselves getting a linebacker in the third round.
The other corner_Routt, a University of Houston sprinter, was even faster than Washington at the combine (4.27) although much less polished. He opened his rookie season as the starting nickel back, but appeared lost against New England and his playing time diminished considerably.
Routt’s size (6-0, 195) makes him well-suited for the nickel role. One problem _ Routt openly admits he is not comfortable there and likes it better on the outside. He appeared to be warming to it late last season however. With Washington and Asomugha on the outside, he had better.
Character gamble_Hawthorne’s stock plummeted after a positive marijuana test. To his credit, Hawthorne never ducked responsibility or made excuses _ owning up to his mistake. He opened his rookie season on the practice squad and was eventually promoted to the 53-man roster.
Hawthorne could be in the Raiders defensive tackle rotation this season, particularly if Tommy Kelly sees more time at end than tackle.
The tweener_Riddle, a Cal product, made the roster initially because of his special teams skill but could not mount a challenge to play on defense because he isn’t really a defensive end or a linebacker. He played five games with the New York Jets last season and is currently a member of the Atlanta Falcons.
Draft bargains_Morrison, No 78 overall, led the Raiders in tackles as a rookie outside linebacker. He replaced the popular Danny Clark in the middle last season, and instantly upgraded the position. Although not a prototype physical middle presence, Morrison gave the Raiders their best pass defense from the position since they returned to Oakland in 1995. A steal.
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April 23rd, 2007 at 12:01 pm
The Raiders did well this time around…..hopefully a sign of things to come.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:19 pm
All in all, I think the 2005 and 2006 drafts will produce many starters for years to come. Once Cable gets a hold of the line, our 2006 picks, Grove and Gallery will flourish.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:20 pm
C-T here’s Carl’s Stewart’s article, if he says the Raiders aren’t drafting JR, I just got kicked in the gut.
http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_5726852
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:31 pm
KK - thanks for the link. He makes some very good points, but never discount Al doing the unthinkable!
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:39 pm
$29M on the Pass Line for JR, huh? Well, that settles it, his jersey number has to be 7 for him to be a winner.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:51 pm
The question is does Al pull another Gibson over Heap deal, picking Russell over CJ because we need a QB or does he take the best player in the draft since we are picking #1
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:54 pm
With the Donkey rumors, it appears we have to pull a San Diego and take CJ #1. If JR is there at #4, at least trade them CJ for JR and next years #1, although I want a lot more for CJ. At this point I’m leaning towards the “Draft and Keep CJ Camp” and pray Walter makes a Drew Brees-type splash this year. Maybe take a flyer on Troy Smith in the later rounds. He could be a nice steel.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:55 pm
I still like our chances better if we draft CJ. We can -
1. look to trade down
2. trade for McCown
3. pick up Rattay
4. trade Moss to GB for Rodgers
5. draft another QB in rounds 2-3
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Yes. We should draft CJ and then see what happens. If BQ goes before #4 (or sigh JR) we hang on to CJ and draft a QB later. If BQ (or JR) is there at #4 we do the deal with TB.
This why I said last week not to do the TB deal before draft day. We maximize our leverage and protect ourselves by actually drafting CJ. See what happens at #2 and #3 and then do the deal. Either way this keeps us IN CONTROL OF WHERE CJ PLAYS! He can’t end up with an AFC West team if we’re the ones who draft him.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Here’s the latest from ESPN Insider on McCown posted today -
McCown update: Josh McCown isn’t happy about his situation in Detroit. He’s been given permission to seek a trade. The Oakland Raiders are interested. The latest is the Lions are fearful of dealing McCown to Oakland because it could lead to the Raiders taking Calvin Johnson instead of JaMarcus Russell with the No. 1 pick. McCown isn’t attending the offseason program in Detroit. He also hasn’t heard much from the Lions’ front office. His situation is in limbo.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:45 pm
That is why we have to take CJ no matter what because it still keeps us in control of the draft and our options… Detroit will trade him eventually but we can’t let them hold him to keep us from maximizing our draft.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:47 pm
If we take CJ, We still keep the option of trading down and also keep the option of trading for McCown because Detroit will trade him no matter what they just want to think they hold all the cards if we don’t take CJ they will trade him to us but the fact is they will trade him to us either way he makes too much to be a back up and is free to walk after this season they will want something for him
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:50 pm
By taking CJ we strengthen ourselves (either keeping the best player, but more importantly keeping him away from division rivals and also giving the options for a trade netting us a ton of picks that could build the team into a powerhouse for years)
Fact if we pass on JR he wont be coming back to haunt us our division rivals are set at QB
We pass on CJ do you really want to see him against us for the next 10 to 14 years?
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:58 pm
POSTED 4:56 p.m. EDT, April 23, 2007
BRONCOS WANT JOHNSON
A reader tells us that there’s a rumor being reported on 950 AM in Denver that the Broncos are trying to make a play for the No. 2 overall pick in the draft, in an effort to land receiver Calvin Johnson.
A source with knowledge of the discussions tells us that the rumor is dead-on accurate, and that an offer has been made by the Broncos to the Lions.
Per the rumor and based on what we’ve heard, the Broncos have offered their first-round, second-round, and third-round pick in the 2007 draft and their first-rounder in 2008 for the No. 2 spot.
The Lions, we’re told, are concerned that the No. 21 overall spot would put them too low to land one of the players whom they covet. The Lions’ goal in trading down is/has been to get more picks, and to still get one of the players they want, but at a lower salary slot.
So the deal might hinge on the ability of the Lions to line up another deal that would allow them to move back up a bit.
The Broncos hold the No. 21 overall pick in round one, the No. 56 overall pick (No. 24 in round two), and the No. 70 and No. 86 overall picks (No. 6 and No. 23, respectively, in round two). We don’t know which of the third-rounders has been offered.
Under the trade chart, the deal might favor the Lions. But different teams value picks from the next year’s draft differently; some teams downgrade the points by a full round, making a 2007 first-rounder the equivalent of a 2008 secon-rounder. The other problem here is that no one will know where the Broncos draft in round one until the 2007 season ends.
The entire deal would be contingent on the Raiders not drafting Calvin Johnson with the No. 1 overall pick. We’re currently told that the Raiders are expected to strike a deal on a contract with quarterback JaMarcus Russell before Saturday.
However, the fact that former Raiders coach/current Broncos coach Mike Shanahan apparently has a bee in his butt for Johnson could cause Raiders owner Al Davis to think twice about whether he would prefer to have Johnson on his team — or to have to face him twice per year.
——————————————————————————–
This is off of PFT.COM
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:31 pm
If we draft CJ, there are even more options than just trading with TB. It opens up many doors for the Raiders that don’t include KC, SD or Denver. We could obtain young, veteran players from any team that we feel can contribute in our system, right away….unlike rookies who may take time to develop. Any trade should be contingent on this premise: If we trade CJ to you, you cannot trade him to KC, SD, or Denver. I don’t know if this is legal or not, but something to that affect would benefit the Raiders since we wouldn’t have to face him twice a year. the Raiders could make it a clause in CJ’s contract before trading him away. Any thoughts?
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:53 pm
cut n paste:
“Yet for all Brady Quinn accomplished at Notre Dame, more attention has been paid to what he didn’t do. He struggled in several big games and closed out his college career with lopsided losses to Southern Cal and LSU. ”
“I don’t think one game necessarily makes a career for someone, but . . . in the second half [of the Sugar Bowl] we played terrible as a team, not just myself, but as a team,” he said at the combine. “Of course, anytime that’s how you end your last game going into the NFL, that’s what people are going to harp on. That’s the last memory.”
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:03 pm
I like JR’s humility, but Brady Quinn is hell bent on being the No. 1 pick.
Cutnpaste:
“No matter where Brady Quinn and JaMarcus Russell are drafted, they will be linked as long as they play in the NFL. But being the first overall pick obviously means more to Brady Quinn than JaMarcus Russell.
“To tell you the truth, my main thing is just getting an opportunity to go out and showcase my skills of football at the next level,” JaMarcus Russell said. “There really won’t be any disappointment because everybody doesn’t get a chance to go as high as No. 1 or No. 2. I’ll be more than happy, whatever position I go in.”
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:20 pm
43 years, and my stomach’s getting tight 6 days out.
“And if the Raiders take him first, he’ll face more than the usual pressure that will come with being a savior for a franchise that has posted double-digit losses for four consecutive seasons and was 2-14 in 2006.
The Raiders’ offensive line was one of the weakest in the NFL last season, allowing 72 sacks.
“It’s going to be a lot of hard work,” Russell said. “If I go to the Raiders or wherever. … Sometimes, it might take that one guy to spark everybody.”
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Please Al, don’t use the #1 on Russell & let the Broncs land Johnson, for Pete’s sake, trade down a few slots & at least take JR on the cheap
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:39 pm
From Oakland:
The Hell’s Angels
The East Bay Dragons
The Oakland Raiders
The EL-D Riders.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Yes, 2-3 blogs ago I warned about the 420 smokescreen regarding McCown. Detroit wants value for their pick and since NOBODY WANTS RUSSELL BAD ENOUGH TO MOVE UP, they were trying to pressure Oakland into drafting him. The Quinn-Russell debate is unimportant right now. The only intelligent thing to do is draft CJ and A) Keep him or B) trade him to a non-AFC West team we know wants to keep him for their own, like TB or Atlanta.
EVEN IF WE WANT JR, DRAFTING HIM AT #1 IS STUPID under these circumstances.
Detroit wants to trade down? If we want to guarentee our pick we draft CJ, trade him to TB for their first four pick. These picks are #4’s so they’re more valuable than the Donkeys #21s. We could trade the #4 + one other and move up to #2. If we want JR we get him cheaper and make sure we don’t face CJ twice a year, plus we get more picks.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:13 pm
The draft is about getting players you want, not playing fantasy games or trying to operate someone else’s draft.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:20 pm
This is what you call making plays:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHXGVudSGw
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:33 pm
That play was against inferior competition….it won’t be so easy for him at the PRO-level.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:38 pm
I admit KK that was truly an amazing play by JR. BUT it was an ill-advised pass into double coverage that should have been picked. Not exactly a smart decision there.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Every player has a youtube - even Andrew Walter. So what? The draft is about getting the players who help you win for the best value. Drafting Drew Stanton #1 would be stupid even if we want him because we can get him for less. Drafting Russell #1 wouldn’t be any smarter. Take it a step further - if you like Russell more than Quinn you’d say taking Quinn #1 is dumb. It works both ways. Drafting either guy #1 makes no sense when we can get either for less and add picks.
These aren’t fantasy games. These types of trades have happened often (LT, Ricky Williams, Eli Manning) and by no coinscidence EVERY TIME the team getting more picks did better.
Fantasy s thinking a guy who won’t be ready for 2 years (if ever) and has red flags in almost every important area (work ethic, experience, spread system, etc) will turn the team around.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:41 pm
More hits than misses.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Rumble Young Man Rumble:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t1OuNvdGL0
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:14 pm
The bottom line is that the draft process is broken. How can a team climb out of a hole if it busts its payroll on a ROOKIE every year? How did the owner and GMs let this happen? It was probably teams like the Cardinals who want the “famous” guy to put people in seats but not to win games. CJ isn’t worth the 29 mil+ he’ll get. No rookie is. It’s almost impossible to get it right because other than a SB MVP, 3+ pro bowler (notice I said 3+), or league MVP, no player is worth 29mil guaranteed.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:16 pm
We are DRAFTING CALVIN JOHNSON #1 AND KEEPING HIM. No trading CJ. How come nobody is trading up to draft JR? Well because he’s not worth it!!
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:17 pm
JR is all hype!!
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:25 pm
That pass on YouTube by Jamarcus Russell was a poor decision and a desperation move. When spinning he kept the ball way outside of his body and it could have been stripped. The other thing to note is that LSU was losing that game 20-7 in the 3rd quarter. It was a great play but it could have gone the other way in a big way.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Saw a rumor Mike Williams is interested in coming to Oakland. How about a package of McNown and Williams for Moss.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:59 pm
MD Raider, I’ve been thinking about that myself, and so have many others. The salaries at the draft’s top end have made the #1 choice into a stigma instead of an opportunity. All the more reason for not digging yourself into a hole in the first place I suppose. This is precisely what we have done, and now we get to shoot the works on some rookie and hope he saves us. Actually we have been drafting a little better as of late …
How to fix this inefficiency that has worked into the system? Hard salary cap set for incoming depending on round selected? A limit upon duration of contract? Cap for vets only with fixed rates for rookies? Something like that.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Man, I’ll be glad when this draft is over. Some of you are just clueless, thinking about all these elaborate trade scenarios. You’re over-thinking poeple. We’re drafting JAMARCUS RUSSELL, because we only have Walter and Booty and we’ve got receivers comin’ out of our ass.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:49 pm
I would still draft Russell, this was just a thought to get rid of the cancer.
McNown could start for a year or so and let Russell ease into the job
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:18 pm
you tell them island pirate.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:19 pm
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April 23rd, 2007 at 7:29 pm
if everyone on the face of the earth, with the exception of 7-8 people on this blog, is right a al wanting russell, it makes no sense NOT to take johnson. no team, i repeat, no team is trying to trade up to get russell. if say, we’re trade cj to TB, i guarantee jruss will be around at #4.
even if elway, er, russell isn’t around, we’re still going to get value at #4. taking CJ will mean we hold all the cards. ***editorial**if the trade goes down, and jruss is still around at #4, we should take peterson!!! over-hyped, junior QB=bust……but at least he has the big arm al davis covets…..re-f**kin-diculous!!
by the way, how are we loaded at WR?? moss could be gone by the end of this week, porter will fly next year, and gabriel, morrant, and whitted are no lock to even make the team.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:31 pm
You guys are crazy JAMARCUS RUSSELL IS ALL HYPE. Why is no team trying to trade up to get this guy? But they are trying trade up to get CJ . JR= Ryan Leaf. Don’t you guys on JR’s jock realize this?
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:35 pm
although their not 8 feet tall and can’t throw a ball 80 yards from their ass, there are 2 or 3 system QBs that will be around in rounds 2-3 that will be just as or even more effective than elway, er, russell.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:38 pm
If Jamarcus Russell is so great and so talented. Why is no other team trying to trade up to get him? JR lovers please explain this to me, please!
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:52 pm
RGLC - i agree with your assessment. Drew Stanton seems to be an ideal fit for this offense. and just for Kicks, at the Post Senior Bowl workout at ESPN, Stanton threw the ball 71 yards. Its not 84, buts its pretty damn close. Add to the fact that hes mobile, 6-5, and probably translates best into a WCO/Hybrid system like Kiffin’s, And I think it would be great to draft him in the 2nd.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:53 pm
It’s nice to imagine JR lifting us from despair with his mighty arm, etc., or CJ leaping up for 6 TDs a game, but I really think the Raiders Offense will be successful when we have a winning system with lots of good players, not just one great player. If the Raiders commit that much money to one prospect, how will we continue to improve next year, and the year after? Especially if he doesn’t pan out. I don’t think this is a “one player, one year” scenario for us to return to greatness. We need a smart, serviceable quarterback surrounded by high achievers in a smart system, and a few years to let it build and work. That QB could be found in round 2 or 3, or it might be McCown, Walter, or Rattay. I hope there will be a trade scenario that will either allow us to take an impact prospect for less money, or that will garner us more high round picks. I’m not immune to the excitement of JR or CJ, but I’ve been a Raider fan long enough to want the “right choices,” not the glamorous ones. We have a rich tradition of winning without John Elway as I recall.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:07 pm
RGLC
This is exactly what I have been saying all along about the JR-CJ situation…. No one wants JR at #1 and I doubt Detroit or Cleveland and I am sure TB does not want him. Cleveland might, they have a history of reaching for QB’s that suck! TB does want CJ the indications are more than a smoke screen because 1. It is coming from multiple sources and 2. It makes sense for the team. Atlanta wants CJ. He is a high character local hero that can put a different face on the team, meets a team need, and Atlanta has many picks they can offer. This might sound bizarre but take Atlanta’s 8th and many other picks and see how far down Russell slides. Will he be there at 4 or 6 or 7 (My guess is Minnesota would definitely take him at 7). Other teams like Miami may try to come into Washington’s slot at 6 but I doubt any team would trade up in the top 4 for Russell! BQ, he may end up in Cleveland but is not going to the Desert or Washington but maybe Minnesota again would take him. Miami would definitely take him at 9 or trade up to Washington’s slot but not into the top 4. There is only one player that is a lock to be #1 or #2 pick and that is CJ! If Oakland takes JR, there will be a feeding frenzy for Detroit’s pick. If Oakland takes CJ no interest! Are you JR supporters getting a clue yet?
Question to JR supporters: how many Junior QB’s coming out of college with this little experience had a pro bowl year within their first four years? How about a QB rating of 85 or above? Instead of watching Ytube you JR supporters should get a replay of the Florida game. They totally exposed him and LSU has a good line and fast wide receivers and a good running game! What will a NFL defense do to this guy I can not imagine. I still can not believe how ESPN with a straight face still hypes this guy based on him shredding ND and engineering comebacks because he put them in the hole in the first place. Furthermore, do you realize he almost was not even LSU’s starting QB at the beginning of this year because of poor decision making and other factors? Just because Mel has cool hair and comes up with all these corny lines does not mean JR is any good. I am sure Jeff George could of put up some interesting combine numbers if he was invited this year but I still do not want him to be my QB.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Autumn Wind I agree with you 100% ! Great job!!
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Peter King wrote about the problems with the draft just briefly and will go into it more after the draft but the people on here are getting it right. This #1 pick isn’t all that great a thing. We will have over 10% of our cap tied up in GUARANTEED money with no such guarentee he’ll be worth squat.
Let’s say we get JR and AW catches fire in this new system. Now Walter deserves more money but we’re stuck with an unproven guy sucking down too much money to trade. I’m glad Brees left SD but they were lucky he got hurt or they’d never be able to explain to their fans getting rid of one of the NFL’s top QB’s for unproven Rivers.
It’s not just JR, ask Detroit about “sure thing WR’s”. Every draft these guys are all hyped and a lot of them bust. Thomas has the same short arms and lack of pure power Gallery does but he’s a “franchise tackle”.
The pay for unproven rookies is absurd.
Since the salary cap, if the draft works, why are the same teams (Cle, Ariz, Det, and lately Oakland) always picking near the top?
The draft has far less to do with winning in the NFL than coaching does. If Oakland turns things around this year it’ll have more to do with Kiffin than any #1 pick.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:30 pm
By the way, Andrew Walter’s scramble, spin out of a tackle and strike in the end zone against a PRO defense n youtube is far more impressive than Russell lobbing ducks into coverage only to bailed out by receivers and piss-poor DB’s.
Culpepper has stank without Moss to catch his lollipops and Russell won’t have that luxury to make him look better than he is.
How many Notre Dame defenders are slated to go in the first 3 rounds of the draft?
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:36 pm
Against a real defense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuXtvgS_mYU
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:37 pm
I guess you are talking about in college coach on wheels cause all the spining walter did was on his head getting slammed too the grass .
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Here’s a question… If the Raiders were totally SOLD on JR, why would they not just close the deal? What do they gain with the cloak and dagger? It would certainly accelerate the Josh McCown deal, wouldn’t it? If they wanted JR in the worst way, would they risk trading down a few spots just to save money? And if they’re not sold on him, why not?
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:39 pm
coach on wheels please miss us with the college highlights.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:05 pm
I think I may have an answer for the folks asking why no one is wanting to trade up for JR; the teams that want CJ are pretty much set, and one great player could make a huge difference. The teams that need a QB are not so set, or don’t have the right combination of picks that would be attractive to the Raiders or Detroit. The teams that could use a QB (Miami, Minnesota, Baltimore, etc.) pick late enough that a player that the Raiders or Lions want will be long gone. In other words, they haven’t because they can’t. The teams that pick high enough to be attractive already have their quarterback. Just a theory.
I agree that, especially if we want one of the QBs, the smart thing to do is draft CJ and see who wants him the most, but only if certain conditions are met. The player we want HAS to be available, and we pull no triggers until it’s guaranteed. And, if possible, ensure (as others have mentioned) that he (Johnson) doesn’t end up in the AFC West. That could suck, even with a good defense.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:20 pm
i could understand everyone going apeshit about brady quinn, but JAMARCUS RUSSELL?? to me, andrew walter and jruss are the same QB. big, rocket-armed, pocket passers. neither QB is going to beat you with their feet. having said that, why isn’t there more support for walter
i’m not for drafting either quinn or russell, but i could at least understand wanting quinn because of his “mobilty”. guys, especially a QB, who are 6′6″ and 270lbs aren’t mobile. he’d be mobile if he were a left tackle or a tight end, but a QB?. do you think he’s going to get smaller with a million dollars in his pocket??
i’m not a terribly huge fan of the “big” qb, but i don’t believe for a second that jruss will be any more productive than andrew walter. with the defense we have and the improvements made across the o-line, we should have the balls to take the best player in the draft rather thana player who just fills a “need”. i can’t believe how such a “loyal” fanbase can so quickly jump ship on a guy who’s basically had zero chance to succeed. the kid gets his brains beat in last year and everyone thinks he sucks….i don’t get it.
i’m pledging my loyalty to AW…..the next, great raider QB.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Rich Gannon… I see your point, but you may be missing ours (the JR Love-Fest Bandwagon Boat). The folks that want JR (and I’m one of ‘em) see him as a much better player than you do. Who’s right? Who knows?
I don’t think AW is terrible, I just think that JR is much, much better, and based on some testimony from people who should know, will be an absolutely great pro. Those same people (I’ll not reference them again, because I have several times and that’s boring) are NOT saying that about Andrew Walter. In my view, we have a chance to get a very special player and we should take it. Doesn’t cancel your opinion, just differs from it.
Hope that helps.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:59 pm
Also, I think the “we should draft a wide receiver because Moss and Porter will be gone next year” argument may be a little short-sighted. Granted they probably will be (Moss might be gone before then), and we might concentrate on linemen with the bulk of our draft this year, but there will most likely be a draft and a free agency period next year, too, so there’s options there as well…
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:05 pm
if walter was all that don’t you think he would have beat out kerry collins i’m not a walter hater i just don’t see his leader his skills. did you see any leadership skills when he was pplaying yeah he was getting beat too the ground but all he did was sulk can you say ryan leaf.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:26 pm
i look at CJ in terms of how he will open up our ground game. he doesn’t have to catch 100 balls for us to make some strides on the ground. also, our qb doesn’t have to throw for 4000yds. i’m not on AW’s jock (as it would appear), but i just don’t think jruss “intangables” will translate into NFL success. i also don’t believe that jruss will be anymore effective than either AW or any of the “system” QBs we can get in later rounds. 60 million dollars for 29 college starts is pretty a hefty pricetag, especially when he probably won’t even be ready to play next year.
as for walter not being able to beat out kerry collins, i guess he was “redshirting”, or the same thing jruss will be doing this year. this is exactly what i’m talking about….AW gets ZERO slack
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:26 pm
Eric I think your totally wrong. AW was voted the team captain his soph year. The leadership that should be in question is JR’s. Quiet, not well spoken, dedication questioned by most draft publications, not the team captain at LSU.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Raider from Birth
Here is what you don’t get. JR is not that special! Just because he can throw a ball 200 yars with one hand while standing on his other hand does not mean he will be a good NFL QB. People use terms like gamble and risk with this guy because that is what he is. He is not Peyton or that once in a lifetime QB. In the last few years I think Lienart was better as well as Carson Palmer. I think Smiths mobility coupled with his skills is better. I think Walter might be about as good. A lot of time the “experts” say it will be JR because he can really throw it down the field and that is what Al wants. Guess what Walter can really throw it down the field to. One scout describes Walter’s arm strength as elite. What we need is a decision maker a point guard if you will that can distrubte the ball like Gannon did or Payton does. If this guy was the next John Elway I am certain we would have action at one and Detriot would be flooded with calls once Oakland picked CJ. Your theory about a team being set only applies to about half the teams out there. There are unsettled QB situations on at least 10 team and only one Oakland is ready to shell out 29 million for him yet others are trying to get CJ.
This is getting really silly. Only CJ has trade value. There is a reason for that. The reason is a WR like him comes along about once every 10 years. QB’s like JR in terms of grade come along about 2-4 per year. Do you see the difference yet? I don’t want CJ or JR I actually want to see a trade down but the only chance is to dangle the idea that we are drafting CJ and then trade him: not JR.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Raider from birth what are u talking about? The team that is rumored too trade up for CJ is Tampa. Tampa Bay are they set at QB?
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Raider from Birth
I don’t mean to be picking on you but in one of your posts you say if JR will be good and say “who knows?” With Reggie Bush last year everyone knew. With CJ, I think it is fairly safe to say based on game tape and measurables that he is fairly safe. “Who knows” is not good enough to spend 29 million on. JR is sounding to me like this years Mario Williams. A need pick for a team that for one reason or another did not take the best talent available and still could of had him if they traded down. The only difference is the “experts” keep hyping JR and keep saying he is a perfect fit because he can chuck the ball across the bay and put it through the uprights of the Golden Gate Bridge and can shed defensive tackles with a flick of his wrist in the act of throwing over the bridge. Al needs DL and JR is a bigger stronger version of the mad bomber. However it was not DL that brought us our first SB win it was a weak armed QB that was accurate and played within his game and was extremely smart. As smart as a snake.
I hope Kiffin is smarter than to fall for the suckers bet on Russell. I hope Al is having a good day and takes his meds on Saturday or else it could be a long draft and another 4 years of futility with Russell at the helm.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:09 pm
I watched an interview from Dan Patrick with Chris Mortenson on ESPN Insider and Dan was asking him about what he thought the Raiders were going to do and he felt from talking to people and getting the inside on things that the Raiders were pretty serious about drafting and keeping Calvin Johnson. He said the safe picks in this draft are CJ and Joe Thomas because they are more sure things. The person he felt would be closest to greatness was Adrian Peterson. He said the reason that JR is above BQ in the rankings is because of BQ’s accuracy problems. People feel that JR can place the ball in spots that BQ cannot. He also felt that Quinn will fall if the Browns don’t pick him and could go as far as 9 or 10 unless someone decides to trade up and get him.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:23 pm
ok 1960 but that was then this is 2007 lets get away from the 70’s and come up to date.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:24 pm
profootballtalk.com
BUCS’ INTEREST IN BRIGGS A MESSAGE TO BROOKS?
Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are interested in trading for Bears linebacker Lance Briggs.
Schefter says that Bucs officials have confirmed their interest in Briggs.
If Tampa would land the Tampa 2 linebacker, the Bucs would have three — that’s three — weakside specialists under contract. In additional to Briggs, they have mainstay Derrick Brooks and newcomer Cato June, who signed a three-year deal with a total value that’s roughly one half of what Briggs likely wants in guaranteed money.
Are the Bucs serious? We don’t think so. But we do think that it’s head coach Jon Gruden’s way of letting Brooks know that Gruden would prefer that Brooks move on. (Not gonna do it tonight.)
The other alternative would be to move Briggs to the middle. He wants to be Brian Urlacher; why not let him play Urlacher’s position? But that means Brooks or June wouldn’t be able to move to the middle.
Besides, June probably can only play the weakside, given his safety-sized body.
In our view, then, this isn’t about the Bucs getting Briggs. It’s about the Bucs getting rid of Brooks. And it could happen sooner than anyone realizes.
(I would take Brooks for our strong side backer position any time of day. We would be 10x better)
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:25 pm
okalnd fan like i said before get of the college game its the pro game now we can’t live in the past,
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:26 pm
(profootballtalk.com)
L.J. SCHEDULED FOR 2008 FREE AGENCY
Adam Schefter of NFL Network explains that Chiefs running back Larry Johnson’s performance since entering the league in 2003 has allowed him to void the final two years of his rookie deal. As a result, he’ll be a free agent in 2008.
Unless, of course, the Chiefs sign him to a long-term deal. Or apply the franchise tag to him next February.
The possibility that Johnson could be gone by next year at this time could be the reason for the team’s decision to bring in tailbacks who are part of this year’s draft class.
Though Schefter says that it doesn’t appear that Johnson is on the trading block, a media source with knowledge of the dynamics in the K.C. front office firmly believes that the team is floating the notion that they are willing to move Johnson.
Hey, why don’t the Bills offer the No. 12 overall pick straight up for Johnson? Then, the Chiefs can send the No. 23 pick and the No. 12 pick to Washington, if Adrian Peterson is still on the board at No. 6. Heck, under the trade chart the Cheifs could climb as high as No. 4, where they’d be certain to nail down Adrian Peterson.
Yet again, we’ve identified a scenario that makes way too much sense to ever happen.
(Can you imagine the Raiders finally punishing the Chiefs with Larry Johnson at tailback?)
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:54 pm
L.J. SCHEDULED FOR 2008 FREE AGENCY
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
Not sure if this went through as its set for moderation.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:55 pm
BUCS’ INTEREST IN BRIGGS A MESSAGE TO BROOKS?
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
April 24th, 2007 at 1:16 am
Eric you’re not a Walter hater, you’re just veeeery confused. First, my link includes pro footage of Walter showing mobility and accuracy against teams with better defenses than Mississippi State. Second, ALL of the Russell footage is from college because he hasn’t showed anything yet. Third, Walter was injured when Collins was here and it’s hard for an injured rookie to beat out a vet - even Collins. Third part 2, Walter did beat out Collins last year didn’t he? Collins was let go and Walter wasn’t. He beat out Brooks too and if he hadn’t criticized Shell’s offense he would’ve stayed the starter. According to Moss and other players, Walter was the better QB and deserves a chance.
Russell didn’t even win a starting job outright LSU but he’s the next Elway? He was so valuable to LSU that when he missed the 2005 Peach Bowl, LSU beat Miami 21-6 without him. Why playing for a top 10 school wasn’t Russell even a candidate for the Heismann? Oh because unlike Quinn, he wasn’t that important to his team.
April 24th, 2007 at 3:31 am
The 2005 draft is a darn success IMO. The situation is trade Moss to GB and get his cap for CJ if the deal ain’t right for trade down, keeping CJ is great too, if there AIN’T NO KING’S RANSOM, I say keep CJ. That’s how I see it, I can live with CJ, Porter, Curry, Gabrial, Morant, and another SPEED DEMON WR drafted in the late rounds.
April 24th, 2007 at 4:18 am
Plus, if Raiders get Rodgers, he don’t FIT in , we’d CUT Rodgers. LOL… We’d replace Moss with Calvin Johnson. Moss plays in the NFC, we’d ain’t gonna see him beat us ever! Maybe if Raiders v. GB in the Super Bowl. LOL.. Do the GB deal and move on!
April 24th, 2007 at 4:21 am
Take a shot gun style QB in the 4-6th round. That’s a pretty good gamble for a QB. Raiders ain’t LOCK up 60 millions dollars and cap space liability for “what ifs” QBs drafted. Stanton will be GONE in the 1st round, most likely, I stay away from Edwards… he’s NOT healthy enough to play full time in the pros.
April 24th, 2007 at 4:24 am
Raiders brass/scouts/coaches cannot LUST after “what if” players. Use the opportunity to improve this franchise as a whole, NOT gamble on players hype up be the media. LOL.. any players drafted gonna have BAD games in the pros, that’s how I see it. Raiders gotta make the right call to improve the franchise now and in the future.
April 24th, 2007 at 4:32 am
Looking at past media hype… ESPN was raving the Raiders about drafting Walters with the 3rd round selection. Both Russell and Quinn are HYPE IMO. I still say Quinn is the BEST QB in this draft. Espn and others just hype up players for ntheir ratings. Clear the smoke and DRAFT WISELY. The Raiders got 10 picks so do your homework and rank players up on the chalkboard as they come off. Just do the typical protocal like all pro franchise do in this world. Raiders need to make the right call. That’s the key to successs!
April 24th, 2007 at 5:17 am
Heck, with cap space Raiders could sign Larry Johnson of KC. Why waste 60 million on a “what if” QB in Russell and Quinn? Just go after LJ when he gets to FA. We’d need cap space for future FA acqusitions like Larry Johnson. He’s a PROVEN commodity at RB. Just my thoughts.
April 24th, 2007 at 5:22 am
I’m just relief Raiders didn’t show their hands so far, all the speculations just favors the Silver/Black, I still don’t know WHO Raiders select but hope for the right call. This draft is gonna make or break this franchise the next 5 years IMO.
April 24th, 2007 at 5:28 am
Multiple blogs… I ain’t good at blogging one entire long paragraph. Sorry, fellows bloggers but I just gotta give may takes as the draft comes along like all who post in this blog. This is too suspenseful for me to hold back my takes.
April 24th, 2007 at 5:35 am
OK Eric
Examples of recent QBs will small arms and lots of wins: Last year Drew Brees and the Saints, Garcia and the run with the Eagles or Johnson and the Buc is 2002 shall I go on…. Not all of these were SBs but it does show the power of simply someone that can make good decisions and stay cool under fire. How about Brady??? These guys are not necessarily big arm QBs but they make good decisions under fire (at least Joson did in 2002). I like big arm QBs too but want some assurance that they are smart and react quickly and properly (that is the main thing). The guy with the best arm in the NFL right now is probably Vick and apart from runing ability is not been that great.
April 24th, 2007 at 6:06 am
Autumn Wind… I’m not referencing Chris Mortensen or Adam Shefter when I talk about JR’s future. Those are media guys, and they are real good at reporting actual news, but don’t know shit from shinola when it comes to talent. The guys I’m listening to are, among others, Hall of Fame coach Joe Gibbs, who said that CJ and JR are the safest picks in this draft. Media guys are easy to quote because they’re always on TV or in print, and it’s their job to blather. Half of them change their opinion weekly, just because they have a deadline to meet and have to say something new. Grain of salt. Someone like Gibbs doesn’t have to say anything at all. But he did.
As for your reaction to my “who knows?” comment; comparing Reggie Bush and Mario Williams to the current situation is a bit of a stretch. Most people in the REAL football world think JR is the obvious pick for Oakland. Mario Williams was NOT the obvious pick for Houston, and everyone knew they blew it when they passed on Bush. My comment was just acknowlegement that everyone has a valid opinion, and only the real experts have as much information as is needed to make the right call.
April 24th, 2007 at 6:47 am
Here is an interesting, and I think dead-on-accurate report by John Clayton of ESPN -
ESPN’s John Clayton reports the Raiders intend to draft Calvin Johnson with the No. 1 pick if the Dolphins acquire Trent Green from Kansas City.
Clayton’s theory is that the whole top part of the draft depends on the future of Trent Green. If Green goes to Miami, Daunte Culpepper will be cut and Oakland would then sign him. Clayton says if a Green trade can’t be worked out, the Raiders will be forced to draft JaMarcus Russell.
Its obvious, and not just based on this blurb, that the Raiders have CJ rated #1. Draft CJ and let all the chips fall where they may. Once we have CJ, McCown will available again, Rattay is still an option, Culpepper will be released and rattay will still be a FA.
All the options available to Oakland before the draft, will be there after, probably at a cheaper price. Its time we use the aces that we are holding in our hand, and stick it to the NFL!
April 24th, 2007 at 7:01 am
LOL… Vick ia a RB in the QB slot. LOL.. Vick ain’t got no arm strength. Do your home work before blogging please. Plus, Vick ain’t got no accuracy.
April 24th, 2007 at 7:04 am
If Gibbs firmly believe in his comment, then CJ and Russell are his best selections, he won with Doug Williams, that’s how I see him putting Russell as his sure thing. Doug Williams is a one of a kind QB, Russell ain’t even in Williams level. LOL..
April 24th, 2007 at 7:07 am
I’m glad I ain’t GM for this draft, there are so many variables that can affect this Raiders franchise for many years to come. The 1st selection is gonna make or break this franchise IMO. LOL.. I just cannot wait to see the results Monday… I’m gonna have my takes when it happens. Just put in my thoughts.
April 24th, 2007 at 7:10 am
My thinking is Gibbs think Doug Williams is Russell. There ain’t no comparison. PERIOD. If anyone live thru the 70’s to 2000’s, Williams is an all pro with ZERO ???? and HIGH work ethics. Just because both are black QBs, Gibbs is firm in his comparison. That’s a flaw thinking process IMO. Just my thoughts.
April 24th, 2007 at 7:16 am
My thinking is Russell will have it no better than Walters did with the Raiders in 2006. LOL…CJ will have his bad games once a while, those two plays a different position too. I go with the sure thing in CJ. Just my own personal preference and bias if it goes down to those 2 players.
April 24th, 2007 at 7:33 am
Plus, the opponents playing the Raiders will BLITZ. Even if the Raiders have the CUT blocking scheme in place, they still gonna BLITZ the QB. Even if Russell is behind snap he will NOT get time to throw down field IMO… the same as Walter in 2006. The results will be the same in 2007 regardless of the CUT blocking scheme. I value a play HIGHER in regard to Calvin Johnson is he’s a PLAY MAKER. A short busted play dump off and CJ could take it all the way or get BIG gains. He’s big enough to shed of LB tackles and fast enough to OUT RUN DBs in the league, unless a DBs speed is in the 4.20’s NO ONE DB will catch up to a Calvin Johnson. That’s how I see it between those 2. Just wanna share my thoughts.
April 24th, 2007 at 7:42 am
Let me do a Quinn take. If Quinn is behind snap, he very good throwing crossing patterns and dump offs. That’s what he does best and extremely accurate. He’s gonna be like a Brady or Montana behind snaps, improvise when there is a busted play. He reads defense very well and has tremendous work ethics, he’s not very accurate with the long passes, but make up for it thru intangibles. His physical condition is most impressive. He takes care of himself and has a good record regarding injuries. He’s very durable for a QB.. that’s where I’m getting at right now. You don’t want a QB on the IR list all the time. He’s perfect for a passing game doing 15-20 yarders all day. He will step right in and start in a whim if necessary. He’d be an all rpo in the right system… he’s not a vertical attack QB, so he ain’t gonna fit in with the Raiders if it’s an all out vertical attack. He plays under snap and will have ZERO problems adjusting to pro game, he’s the BEST QB in this draft IMO. Oh well.. just an AMATEUR scout report!
April 24th, 2007 at 8:35 am
Mario Williams - 54 million, Alex Smith - 49 million, Eli Manning - 40 million. None of these first picks will justify this kind of money unless they are the missing piece to get their team to the superbowl and that ain’t happening anytime soon. JaMarcus Russell had a good high profile game and suddenly he is a projected first overall pick. This guy’s name was never mentioned in the Heisman race. This guy was invisible until he beat ND on TV. To think Al Davis will pay him 50 - 60 million based on his meager resume’ is ludicrous. The only way Russell plays in silver and black is if we pick CJ first and trade him away for a lower pick and snag JR somewhere between no. 5 - 10 or we trade the pick outright to whomever is dying to get CJ (whom I prefer over JR at #1 but still don’t think justifies a 50-60 mil. contract) and get JR or BQ later. I am really seeing a greater silver lining around trading this pick away than burying ourselves in a player who, as history has supported, will not pan out to be worth #1 overall money. I will be amazed if either JR of CJ play a single down for #1 overall money in silver & black , therefore I guess I will be amazed if CJ plays a single down in S&B, period.
April 24th, 2007 at 8:44 am
An important factor to remember for this years draft is the fact that we now have a rookie, college coach who by most accounts has at least a fair hand in draftboard decisions. Never before has there been a coach with this type of major college recruiting knowledge sitting at the top of the draft. Al himself even mentioned it during the press conference to announce Kiffin. Combine the offense that he will run with the obvious fact that his time to prove himself both in personnel and the Win column will be short and it’s a foregone conclusion that we are taking CJ. Trading down is not a real option as we already have ten picks and future considerations don’t help you now. The QB position will likely be a McCown / AW battle which will work out fine for this type of offense. Even KK’s guy, Carl Steward (check your spelling local boy) says as much.
Also, on this weeks ‘Raiders Report’ show on Comcast (directv 656 for those of you who may not have known about the show), Kiffin is interviewed by Greg Papa and its easy to see by his demeanor that he is very confident in his draft/player evaluations and has no intentions of drafting a JR. The coaching staff he was able to put together (for a rook) is pretty damn impressive overall as well and you get the sense he knows it and does not carry a lot of stress thinking he has to do it all by himself. I know this guy is raw by NFL terms but for some reason, I have a lot of confidence that he will end up being a good talent evaluator and coach.
April 24th, 2007 at 8:44 am
The Raiders dupe everyone into thinking that CJ and JR are their top 2, trade away the #1 pick to some team willing to put their entire fraichise and a third of their cap space into one player, and choose the best player for their system and their #1 guy anyway(BQ) plus get the other team’s day 1 picks to boot. Genius.
April 24th, 2007 at 9:03 am
ASRP…I agree with the first half of your take. I also understand your frustration with having to fork out such huge guaranteed money for a player who is basically nothing more than a prospect at this point, regardless of who you take. Unfortunately we had our worst season ever so we get our highest draft position ever. The one thing to remember is that even though there are salary / bonus ‘slots’ for draft positions, these figures are also weighted by the position the player plays. The examples you sited from Stewards column are the most recent #1 picks and all happen to be QB’s and DE’s. These, along with CB are the most highly compensated positions in football. This includes draftees, veteran free agents, franchise tagged players, etc. By taking CJ, a WR, the relative compensation is considerably less than it is for QB, especially at #1. There is a position factor that is part of the overall salary/bonus formula that the league uses and WR is actually near the bottom of the positional rankings in terms of compensation. Bottom line…CJ is the best ‘value’ in the draft for us given our situation at #1.
April 24th, 2007 at 9:34 am
new blog up
April 24th, 2007 at 9:37 am
I see your point. What would CJ command as far a salary goes? I have been a CJ backer for a long time and would love to see him in S&B. The lions can keep Williams as far as I’m concerned. In fact they can have Moss if they want him too. New blog up btw.
April 24th, 2007 at 10:00 am
Well Im going to throw in my say as for the draft. The more I listen about the ups and downs with JR, less confident I become on taking him. Has a history of injuries, has his leadership skills and work ethic questioned still? He wouldnt fit the hybrid offence of the raider future. I like kiffin’s coaching style, if kiffin is as smart as he appears to be, then we will turn out with an atleast decent out come. I say we take CJ, opening up all the options we want and then draft a QB in rounds 2 or 3. If we had to draft a QB in the first take BQ, the smarter QB’s in the NFL have better and longer careers in the NFL. I think we should draft Chris Leak in the 2nd or 3rd. Where is the love for him? The kid lead the gators to the National Championship and had a great game too. Yet I hear little if anything about him, yet JR wins the Sugar bowl against a miss matched defence and is supposed to be Oakland’s savior to the promise land. Take CJ in the first(I really think we should keep him) then draft a smart and accurate QB in teh 2nd or 3rd. Even if not Chris Leak. To be a QB at the number 1 over all draft pick, that adds alot of pressure, and I bet alot of the QBs in this draft would fall under it. CJ as a WR is less pressure, or am I wrong? There’s my opinion, Im open to others…
April 24th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
I would give my left nut to be a fly on the wall and listen Kiffin dad try to talk the kid
out of CJ.