Position analysis: Running backs
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Thursday, January 17th, 2008 at 5:03 pm in Oakland Raiders.
(Update: Thanks to the e-mailer who told me Adimchinobe Echemandu, who was the Raiders best running back during training camp, has signed a contract. Echemandu, who immediately took to the zone-blocking system, was cut late in the season by Houston).
Second in a series analyzing Raiders position groups as they restructure their roster this offseason:
2007: RB Justin Fargas, RB LaMont Jordan, RB Dominic Rhodes, FB Justin Griffith, FB Oren O’Neal, RB Michael Bush (PUP).
Summary: Fargas, Jordan and Rhodes accounted for 1,860 of the team’s 2,086 yards rushing, the sixth-best figure in the NFL, yet none of their names is etched in stone for 2008.
Fargas, essentially the No. 3 running back in training camp, gained ground when Jordan injured his back and Rhodes was serving the final game of a four-game suspension, rushing for 179 yards against the Dolphins.
He eventually became the starter, and rushed for 1,009 in a free agent year before missing the last two games with medial collateral ligament strain which did not require surgery.
As hard as Fargas runs _ Marion Barber of the Cowboys may be the only back who can legitimately claim to run harder _ he comes with risks and deficiencies which make writing him a multi-million dollar bonus check a gamble.
He didn’t finish the season with an injury, and injuries could well be a byproduct of his running style. He is a below average receiver. Kiffin acknowledged that one of the reasons Raiders running backs caught just one touchdown pass was in large measure to Fargas’ skills as a receiver in the red zone.
Fargas had a terrific year and was a great story for a team that needed one and could well be brought back, with the wise move signing him to a reasonable figure before free agency begins. If he hits the open market, and the money gets too big, the smart move is to pass.
Last year, the Raiders visited with Travis Henry but passed, with Denver signing him to a deal with a reported $12 million in guarantees. They ended up getting up better production with Fargas for a fraction of the cost.
The Raiders were gaining yards when both Jordan and Rhodes were the lead backs, so it makes no sense to get overly attatched to Fargas if the money is too big.
Jordan is scheduled to make $4.7 million next season, so consider his bags packed. He never wowed Raiders coaches with his willingness to block or his body langauge even when productive. Kiffin was only too pleased to hand the job to Fargas once Jordan’s back acted up.
Rhodes seemed to be on his way out the door as well, but when Fargas went down, Rhodes gained 237 yards in the last two games against two of the NFL’s better run defenses _ Jacksonville and San Diego.
Disgruntled for a period of time after his suspension was over about not getting any playing time, Rhodes worked his way out of Kiffin’s doghouse and past Jordan to get his chance.
Money, however is an issue. Rhodes is due $3 million in salary and a $2 million roster bonus. To stick around, he may have to agree to taking less, as Jordan did last season. If Rhodes thinks bigger money is out there after those last two games and the Raiders don’t want to pay $5 million for someone who may not start, he could hit the open market.
The existing contracts of Jordan and Rhodes make them difficult to trade, because trading for the player means trading for the contract and neither man produced enough to merit their scheduled wages.
The fear of having Jordan and Rhodes end up in Denver and Kansas City _ two teams that were looking for running backs _ helped conspire to keep Bush under wraps for an entire season.
Kiffin could barely hide his displeasure at being unable to get a look at Bush when his PUP window closed. Other than a few weeks of padded practices during that window, Bush hasn’t played since the 2006 season opener for Louisville.
The Raiders hope they have something special _ Bush has receiving skills that would fit in nicely with Kiffin’s offense _ but no amount of impressive Youtube videos is going to substitute for not seeing him in live action against NFL teams.
The fullback position appears secure. Griffith was singled out by Kiffin was one of the most important factors in bringing professionalism to the locker room. He not only is an excellent mentor for O’Neal, but brings a different skill set.
Griffith is more of an athletic, cutblocking and receiving fullback. O’Neal, with his explosiveness and low center of gravity, has the potential to be a devastaing lead blocker in the power game. His receiving skills, which Kiffin insists are there, are yet unexplored.
While the status of the top ground gainers is unsettling, there are numerous options in both free agency and the draft. Only one _ Arkansas’ Darren McFadden _ is considered to have a chance at going within the top four picks. The Raiders will own either the third or fourth pick after a coin-flip with Atlanta.
Given the Raiders’ feeling that the system can create a runner, they’d probably look to find a runner with a later pick.
Potential unrestrcited free agents: Julius Jones, Dallas; Jamal Lewis, Cleveland; Michael Turner, San Diego; Derrick Ward, New York Giants; Rock Cartwright, Washington;
Potential draftees: Darren McFadden, Arkansas; Jonathan Stewart, Oregon; Felix Jones, Arkansas; Rashard Mendenhall, Illinois; Steve Slaton, West Virginia; Mike Hart, Michigan; Ray Rice, Rutgers; Justin Forsett, Cal.
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January 17th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Exactly Jerry. Look at what Denver does with running backs. This team does not need to draft one in the top five. And I am installing a real offense at Arkansas, not that BS Hog Wild Crap they used with McFadden. It remains to be seen if McFadden can do well lining up as a RUNING BACK in the NFL, and not as a QB in some cute formation.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
“Jordan is scheduled to make $4.7 million next season, so consider his bags packed.” lol…classic Jerry
January 17th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Interesting Jerry, You must be making this gossip up (joke)
The fear of having Jordan and Rhodes end up in Denver and Kansas City _ two teams that were looking for running backs _ helped conspire to keep Bush under wraps for an entire season.
Kiffin could barely hide his displeasure at being unable to get a look at Bush when his PUP window closed. Other than a few weeks of padded practices during that window, Bush hasn’t played since the 2006 season opener for Louisville.
The Raiders hope they have something special _ Bush has receiving skills that would fit in nicely with Kiffin’s offense _ but no amount of impressive Youtube videos is going to substitute for not seeing him in live action against NFL teams.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
I read that Jerry Jones would let both Julius Jones AND Marion Barber go…
If thats true, we could trade our pick to him, but I still think he would like to keep Marion, but you never know =)
January 17th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Well well. If JF, DR nor LJ (good ridiance to him) are not here next year b/c we’re not willing to pay then we are in a serious bind. All of a sudden McFadden becomes a definite possiblity. And I say if we are stuck with that pick (can’t trade down) then draft the speed demon. Hear that Dakota?
I would still be a lil’ gun shy on paying McFadden all that much money b/c I doubt if he will start. I’ll venture to say MBush gets the nod and McFadden is change of pace (ala Reggie Bush).
Boy I gotta admit …the sound of [JaMarcus Russell, Michael Bush, Darren McFadden] sounds pretty damn scary.
And exciting.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
did Steve Slaton come out? We really don’t need a back that high unless it’s Barry Sanders or a really super HB and Darren McFadden ain’t that.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
yep …I think Steve Slaton did declare. But notice BHP, I said if we are “stuck” with that pick. Our other options would be Jake Long, Sedrick Ellis, or Ryan Clady. Take your pick.
Maybe Calais Campbell wows people at the combine and moves up the charts to become “pickable”…which is a meaningless statement to me.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Getting a Steve Slaton in the second rnd would be more like what we will do. He is a fantastic talent for a much lower price tag. I also really like Mike Hart very smart tough skilled runner and a leader to boot.
Now this is what really interest me. One of these guy’s could really juice up the offense there is another HB not even mentioned here that has tremendous potential as a scat back to complement Bush.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Slaton did announce. The problem with McFadden/Bush is you CAN’T have a ton of rookie running backs because of the blitz assignments. You HAVE to HAVE a veteran RB otherwise Russell WILL get killed back there. Just saying.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Terra pin would could even trade down and get a very good LT Clady could be gotten after the 15th pick and would be an outstanding prospect. But you abslutely right. If both Dorsey and Chris Long are gone by the time we pick I would probably trade down and get more value.B
Boys we are in the catbird seat!!
January 17th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
good point Oakglenn…always forget the blitz packages.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
We will not be taking rb at #2. WR, OL, DT and SS are the likely options given our most pressing needs. I’d be highly surprised and disappointed if we took a RB at 2.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
BHP,
5 successive years of double digit loses is not what I’d call the catbird seat.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Too many happy Raider Fans for me.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
The main “?” I ask just to entertain the thuoght is who do you pick if Long & Dorsey are gone, if you were ‘forced’ to pick?
You see the decision becomes a lot harder to make.
Ellis? Do you think he can show up in the pros? - a bit undersized w/ short arms
Long? Do you really think he can pass block cosistently? - already a knock that he’s no Joe Thomas
McFadden? Is he really THAT good? - I really don’t think so.
Who else is there? What do you do? or do you reach for Clady?
January 17th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Outstanding comment Oakglenn and you can bet the rRaiders are very keen on that. You need someone proven that knows the offense in tough situatins and will perform. Bush is the starter IMO and geting another scatback type will be more to the liking. I would like to get Ellis but at a little cheaper price. I definitely do not want Jake Long that hig but did Clady come out? Baker from SC is just as talented.
I want Chris Long or Dorsey. If not trade down and get more value. There are some very talented WR’s that aren’t necessarily high pick worthy but if you van get them in the 3rd or 4th rnds you can get excellent value. Jackson coming out pushes talent down into the 2nd rnd and you can get a real good player cheaper. If I’m the Raider only Dorsey or C Long make sense that high.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
I’m kind of with priest on this one. I think an excellent draft, and there are sooooo many reasons to think we will draft well with Kiffin, and this team is well on it’s way to respectability. Kiff is now one year removed from college ball, the staff is coaching the senior bowl, and having the players for a year, you know who you want to keep. You guys, two years from now you won’t even recognize this roster. I predict the following players will be on the Oakland Raiders roster beginning in 2009:
Jamarcus Russell
January 17th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Terrapin you trade down and get value it’sthat simple.
KK I’m not interested in a pitty party, you’ll have to go elsewhere for that. Maybe someone else can humor him.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
I would add quite a few more Oakglenn but we wont get into that. Although you do make a very valid point, that huge changes will insue in the coming months.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Im just saying there’s a lot of tolerance for losing around here. Just like the Raider facility I guess.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Dude, I’m sure you know, traiding down may be a lot easier said than done. I absolutely, unequivocally agree: TRADE DOWN. There’s just so much more value later. But that easier said than done.
If Dorsey and Long are gone then we don’t have a lot more options at the top of the draft. The few remaining at the top we really don’t need …may be stuck with McFadden or (cringe)Jake Long.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
I really think Dorsey is coming to us at #3 or #4, The dolphins are going to select Chris Long or Jake Long, probably Chris because Parcells likes to run a 3-4 defense, and Dorsey is more of a 3-technique in a 4-3 D, than at #2 the Rams can take him but i see them taking Jake Long because they want to protect Mark Bulger from antoher injury and Orlando PAce doesnt have more than 2 years in him, probably 1, or none. Then is either us or Atlanta at #3, they are picking one of the 3 QBs (woodson, Brohm, Ryan) and that makes us grabbing dorsey at #4, and then picking in the 2 round a SS or WR
January 17th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
for 2k7 Fargas averaged 4.7 ypc, Jordan 3.8 (The same thing he has averaged EVERY year as a Raider), and Rhodes 3.9
It seems that Fargas was able to do more with the same line.
http://mvn.com/nfl-raiders/
January 17th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
i think it’s so funny when people say ‘just trade down’…
is there a big red button you push and automatically you get to trade your picks for a fair price? somehow, i don’t think it’s that easy to find a taker for a pick that will cost the ‘winning trader’ 45Mil.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Dorsey is not that big to be a Nose in the 3-4, he is more of a tommie harris type
January 17th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
It’s much harder the higher you pick, but we kind of right on the edge where it get’s easier. I think it is a very real possibility. You’ll see what I mean because the area we pick has some dominant players and they do fit needs for other teams so it’s not as hard as one might think.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Jerry Jones is going to try and trade up to get DMAC , but their 2 picks is shy of the total value of the 3rd pick or 4th pick, they would have to give us their #2 this year and # 3 the next year or something like that
January 17th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Priest obviously I’m kidding. We have a few keepers for certain.
KK, I don’t think there’s a tolerance or acceptance of losing, I think, at least with me, I’m not gonna panic, at least not just yet. I DO SEE what I consider improvement, and you brought it up earlier, I think some consistency would do a world of good around here.
Lastly Terrapin, trading the overall 3 or 4 to Dallas for 21 and 24, would probably work for both teams. Some posters here think we could trade the overall 3 (let’s say) for Dallas’ 21, 25th, their 2nd rounder, their 4th rounder, Dallas’ 1st rounder in 09 AND 2010, along with safety Roy Williams and QB Tony Romo. THAT, ain’t gonna happen.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Daniel - What SL does is obviously key. I’ll be paying special attention to them this offseason. What are they going to do with Pace? His situation is the key.
And yep, I think most mocks have it wrong. Parcells is likely to implement (at some point) the 3-4 and Long will be his guy if he can’t trade down. He would’ve looked better in S&B.
Dorsey falling would be a dream.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
But ill say this, if dorsey and chris are gone, i say grab DMAC, Man he could have a Adrian Peterson type of impact, I mean, Chester Taylor is a good back, but he would have never had 244 yds agains chicago, only to have the next week 296 against the chargers, DMAC can be the same, and he is a better reciever than Peterson , would u imagine a two headed monster BUSH_DMAC, i know we havent seen BUSH, but i know hes good , just see fargas, he was never good before this year, the blocking scheme benefits the RBs, but DMAC is the safest pick in the draft, and after giving it a thought, the cowboys wont trade up, because they have a RB by the name of BARBER, and he is going to the probowl, he wants a lot of money, they cant have 2 RB earning a ton of money
January 17th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
SWell what makes it doable is getting picks the following year. You may not get the full payout this year but you can get full value when you trade down. you just have to have buyer with a lot of desire.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
I read today that DALLAS 2 pick in the 1 round have a total value of 1400 pints, while the Raiders top 5 pick has a 1800 value, that a ton of points, a 2 rounder has about 270 points, in the NFL the point value is what u have to make trades in the draft, Al davis never trades down, Oakglenn, you are saying its a good trade? come on!!
With the 3rd rounder would give us about 1850 points to 1800 for our pick
January 17th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
i meant he never trades down the 1 round pick
January 17th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
I don’t pay much attention to the point system. I’m not sure if any coach really relies on it. At least I hope our coaches don’t. Its all dependent on who’s available later to me.
Now hypothetically speaking I think Dallas’ 1st 2 picks are just too late in the draft - not worth it. You have to make it work for you if that deal was broken - i.e. trade back up to 15th using the 24th and a 3rd or 4th per say.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
one of those 4 players (dorsey, DMAC, both LONGs), we have to select one of those, if its JAKE LONG and DMAC, we need DMAC, i dont think people understand the talent he has, HE can be the BEST RB in the league from the 1st day, now imagine with the arm JR has, what would DMAC do with our PLay Action pass!!! IT WOULD BE AMAZZZZING!!!!!!!! then you could see your dream of an 80 yard bomb, and yeah HE CAN BLOCK
January 17th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Al Davis never trades down. talk what you know because that is not at all true. I’ve been watching the draft since they started televising it in ‘81 and I’ve seen him trade down and trade up. As a matter of fact he traded down when we got Zach Miller last year. And that is just one of many times we’ve traded down and up. Just talk what you KNOW to be true.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
yeah, ZACH MILLER WAS A 2nd rounder genious
January 17th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
just when he took SEABASS, he couldve traded down the pick to get him and get more pick, did he trade down???? its was a 1ST 1ST 1ST ROUNDER!
January 17th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Terrapin if we can get those 2 first from Dallas plus a 1st next year would you do it?
January 17th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
We might have to switch 2nds with them to get the deal done but that’s how you make it work.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
i know the QSTN wasnt for me BHP, but they will never give that, that will give us more points, and they will have to pay top money to 2 RBs, are u kidding me, Jerry Jones isnt that stupid, or maybe he is, I dont know, its more realistic to say, both 1 rd picks, this years #3, and next years #2
January 17th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Yah..I’ll do it. But I just don’t think Dallas will do it. hahaha. I hope they will though. I’ll use one of those picks to trade back up to get Clady …then a WR and DT with the 21st and 2nd round pick.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
The problem with what you’re saying Daniel is it might make sense in like Fantasy Football to trade players in point value, but in NFL reality, you most likely won’t make deals like that anymore. The last two teams to really trade a ton of pix and/or players for one spot, ended up getting burned severely. One, the “Herschel Walker Trade” STILL is legendary for it’s fleecing.
The issue with trading down is you’re not doing it in a vacuum, in other words, say Jerry Jones IS gonna trade for one of the top pix, well, he’s gonna call Miami, St. Louis AND the Raiders and see who’s gonna give HIM the best deal. And any team in the top 5-6 are NOT gonna have just one need. They’ll all be desperate, so HISTORY SAYS for your high pick, you may get a lower first rounder, with a 2nd or 3rd rounder and MAYBE a later YEAR pick, depending, but I don’t think you would get a point for point value. I hope I’m making sense here.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
ok, Al Davis loves freak talent Players, DMAC fits the bill, he will pull the trigger, and Kiffin want him too, he already said it in a radio show. if dorsey comes to us he will grab it, if not, DMAC is a RAIDERS, he aldo fits the bill
January 17th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
The last time we has an allpro running back was also the last time we won the Superbowl.
24 years ago….
January 17th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
What makes you think he would take a RB, maybe he wants Long either of them. Everybody isn’t stuck on McFadden like those who post in here.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Dude - “DMAC” as you call him really is not that good. He really isn’t. He fast. He can catch. But he’s not gonna be the best thing since sliced bread. Not better than B.Sanders. Not better than A.Peterson. Not better than that crybaby LdT. Damn sure not Bo. He’ll be good but not great. And I would think (if healthy and ready) MBush would START over him.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
i understand, but the 22 and 31 picks, are not enough, the have to give us more, that to low, like terrapin said, we would need a middle round pick , like the 15 or 14, and a 22 or 25, not 22 and 31
January 17th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I don’t think the Raiders are nearly as high on McFadden as you guy’s in here think they are. McFadden is not everything you think he is. There are also some outstanding HB’s in this draft that offset his stature. However I do hope some sucker is out there willing to sell the farm for him. And gives the Raiders everything they’re looking for.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
You guys I’ve said this before: if Dorsey and Chris Long are gone, you have to take Darren McFadden. I don’t want to, because we have sooooooo many needs, and we don’t have a 3rd OR 5th rounder in pretty deep draft. But you HAVE to take that guy.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
lol, bush start over DMAC, bush was a 1 rounder, maximum between a 12th and 20th pick, DMAC would be ahead of him, faster, no injury, and has more playmaking ability, maybe i am a little to high, but its not just him, its the thing that DMAC would make the Raiders a top offense, like jerry said, are you imaging the play action??? LOL, i obviously want dorsey or chris long , but if its not them, i wouldnt trade down for those picks, its two far in the 1 round, we would have to trade up after that
January 17th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
If McFadden and Michael Bush were in this draft, (Bush of course injury free) I would take Bush over McFadden all things being equal.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
yeah i know, but what i saying BHP is you have to take him if dorsey and long are gone, the other RB are good, we dont know, DMAC is the safest pick in the DRAFT, i dont want to take a chance with a RB in the 2nd round, to see if he can do it or not
January 17th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
21 AND 24 with a 2nd or 3rd rounder in this years draft???? That’s pretty good value. You can get EXCELLENT players in the 3rd round and potentially TREMENDOUS players in the 2nd.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
BHP why would you do that, give me a good argument, maybe u fell in luv with him because he is a raider already
January 17th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
21 and 24, is more like it
January 17th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
You are dead wrong HE is NOT the safest pick. The safest picks are Chris Long or Dorsey. McFadden is an attitude problem and on top of that you’re excluding the fact that he MIGHT not start on this team. Get a clue HE is a luxury in our case maybe not in others but in our case he is a luxury. We stole the second best back in the draft last year. Why in the world would we need to d it again one year later, figure it out.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Its not about where the guy would’ve be drafted; its about how his game translates to the pros. Many rbs that were drafted later had much more productive careers than the early goers. Going early means nothing. MBush’s game may translate better in the Pros than McFadden’s. McFadden is like Reggie Bush to me expect better b/t the tackles and you see how that working out. Change of pace guy - he’ll be the best at that - I’ll give you that much. Not to be an insult to him.
Besides, last years draft was headlined by A.Peterson. I think this guy is actually HOF (if healthy). His mere presense knocked every other RB down for sure b/c he was the measuring stick.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Mike Bush is SO FAST, and SO STRONG, and is such a great team guy that he was a fantastic high school QB, and Petrino made him a RB and he did so, unselfishly. This guy is just a “sky’s the limit” type of player. and that was before I found out what the people of his home town of louisville thought of him, which was EVEN MORE GLOWING. Very special guy and we are lucky to have him.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Glenn, BHP, or anyone else here
I am interested in the 2nd round, the first will play out, our second pick is real important without a 3 rd pick.
I’m interested in the following players and was wondering other than pre -draft reports how they are as players?
Did anyone see the following play
Phillip Merling> Clemson DE
Michael Oher> Mississippi OT
Anthony Collins> Kansas OT
January 17th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Koolkell,..why are you always so miserable?…you are the downer of this message board it seems,..hopefully you arent such a drag in real life,..but Im thinking you are…try not to take all this so seriously sir,..theres more to life then just being miserable every day like you are.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
You never know how high Bush would’ve gone if he played the entire season. The damn boy was settin records - a TD machine - Hiesman hopeful.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
mmmm, because we dont know how will M. Bush respond, maybe thats why nobody took him in the 2nd round or 3 rnd, after he thought he was a sure 1rnd, after his injury, fargas is prone to injury, hes been injured a lot of years, he is not a featured back, Jordan is out, and if we draft DMAC, rhodes or fargas is out, so i dont think its a comodity, or maybe it is if we have fargas and bush and rhodes making a lot of money or drafting someone at #3 or 4, but maybe BHP you are not a good reader, I said if Dorsey and LOng are gone, we take DMAC, and no, i dont think a DE or DT are safe pick, never in the NFL, RB yes because of the O line system, i think if fargas gives us 4.6 yds, jordan 3.8 and rhodes 3.9, DMAC can give us 5.1
January 17th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
you mean to tell me you wouldnt take mcfadden @ 3 or 4? slap yourself if you think otherwise. we do have pressing needs but you cant pass up a superb athlete like mcfadden if he slips that far. You dont think rb learn blocking assighnments in college? would I trade up to get him? no, but its a no- brainer if he is available. Howie’s kid looks overrated, dont forget he’s 2 years older then the rest of the seniors he played with last season, remember Chris Wienke? If we get the #3 pick keep it and draft the best player still there ( Dorsey, Mcfadden, J.Long ) if we get the #4 then we should trade down and pick up Stewart(rb) Phillips(ss) or Jackson(wr/kr) and hopefully obtain a much needed 3rd or 4th round pick. I really like Early Doucet from LSU, he’s a playmaker with a great attitude plus he played with J. Russ for 2 seasons. If he’s there in the @nd round it will be a blessing. How come nobody is talking about the CB position? Nhamndi is great, but the other side is week. How many times did Washington and Routte get beat? ( i think Routte is better ). There nothing like 2 lock down corners, especially playing man to man. Despite all the false start flags I think the o-line played great, as long as Cable sticks around it seems like he’ll put together the best group possible. In my opinion our off-season needs go like this:
1. SS- someone who can tackle, plain and simple.
2. DT- a big physical run stopper, last year our biggest problem with th D-line was being under-sized ( dont tell me ’bout Sands cause I sure didnt here his name last year) I seen Sapp and Burgess get thrown around a lot last year. Its good to have a speed rusher, but you’d better have 3 hogs lined up next to him.
WR.- its not rocket science, we need a playmaker and depth at our thinest(depth-wise) position.
CB.- We despretly need someone to complement Nhanmdi. Its much needed in the man to man scheme. ( remember Woodson and Allen?)
PR/KR.- Crazy? I’m tired of seeing Carr run full speed and fall at the 25 yd line or higgins getting happy feet under punts.
OL.- Give these guys a break, 6th in the leage in rushing? thats good. The only worry is if Robbins can play another year, but I’m a Grove fan (and a Gallery fan). The weakest link is Sims, his knees get jelly when there’s a speed rusher across the way.
RB.- with Cable no matter who you put back there there going to succeed. Fargas is barley avg. and he ran for 1000 in 12 games(Can you imagine Mcfadden).
LB.- Best crew on the team
Owner.- I love Al Davis, but it seems lately he can Screw up a bowl of cornflakes…. (I know it seems like everyone in there Mother has an inside scoop) My brother and his wife have been working for the Raiders since 2003 (they didnt start getting paid till ‘05, Al taking advantage of interms) and word around the campfire is Al is demanding that Mcafee gets a full face lift or he wont sighn an extension. The Raiders are currently trying to obtain property around Mcafee (where the old HomeBase used to sit) for parking extension and other needs. The Minority owners of the Raiders also have ties to Anaheim…. and its already known Anaheim is trying to lure Al back with a tax-payer paid in full personel stadium with a West Coast Hall of Fame building to go along with it. Its also known that one of Goodells top priorities was to get football back in the nations 2nd biggest market (socal). SO IF NO EXPANSION TEAM OR EXISTING TEAM GOES TO SO CAL IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS, ITS A 50-50 CHANCE WE’LL LOSE THE RAIDERS AGAIN. THE PUBLIC VISIT TO DUBLIN WAS JUST A PLOY TO LET OAKLAND AND SO CAL KNOW THE RAIDERS ARE SEROIUS ABOUT MOVING FOR THE 3RD AND FINAL TIME. THE CITY OF OAKLAND IS WORKING FRANTICLY TO WORK OUT AN EXTENSION, BUT AL & CO. ARE STILL SOURED ABOUT THE ‘95 MOVE, PLUS OAKLAND IS THE 3RD SMALLEST MARKET IN THE NATION AND 2ND WORST IN REVENUES AND IT DOESNT HELP THAT PLAYERS AND OWNERS VOTED OAKLAND THE 2ND WORST VENUE IN THE NFL, SAN FRANCISCO WAS LAST. TROW IN ALL THE LAWSUITS AND IT DOESNT LOOK GOOD FOR RAIDER NATION. THE ONLY SMALL CHANCE IS THAT AL IS TO OLD FOR A MOVE, HIS SON MARK, LOVES THE BAY AREA AND AL JUST SIMPLY ADORES THE FANS IN OAKLAND, THE PROBLEM IS, AL ADORES MONEY EVEN MORE.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
ok, mmmm in college all players are TD machines, and DMAC played the SEC, tougher opponent, like when he tourched Dorsey for more than 250 yds and that great LSU defense. Bush played what? the Big East, good players, and good teams, but not great
January 17th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
RJV78 i agree, DMAC is an amazing talent, he is one of a kind player, there are just about 1 or 2 players in a draft with that kind of talent, what im sayiung theres more of a chance on a defensive player to be a bust than a great RB that block well actually in a good system like the raiders
January 17th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
If all players in college are TD machines, then MBush was a BAD_ASS TD Machine!!! LLOLOLOL>…i’m having too much fun…i gotta stop
January 17th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
college is like playing Madden
January 17th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
When you say safe pick there are many factors including attitude. No position is any safer than another it’s the player that makes a pick safe or not. position has zero to do with it.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
talent, i mean talent! and Dmac is the most talented player, maybe he has issues, but i would take a chance on him, only if dorsey is available i would take him
January 17th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Welcome to the McFadden club Oakglenn, Terrapin, Daniel and RJV78. It took you all long enough to realize that if Dorsey and Chris Long are off the board and we are sitting there with McFadden staring us down, we have to pick him. Screw needs. We can fix some of those needs via free agency or in the second round. We need a dominant running game with guys that can FINISH! Fargas is nice…can’t finish a drive. Rhodes is one drink away from a long suspension and only two games out of the doghouse. LJ is a goner. Bush is an unknown quantity. McFadden can be our go to guy for the next 5-7 years. Imagine the pressure having McFadden would take off of JR?
January 17th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
agrre with dakota, if the vikins had a good QB they would be the class of the NFC, they dont, i believe JR is going to be a great QB, give him a top notch Tunning attack, we can be in the playoffs every year the next 5-7 years
January 17th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Daniel are you NUTS DMac is a one of kind player. Explain to me how the great DMac is ‘A ONE OF A KNID PLAYER’. And there is no more of a chance tha defensive player to be a bust.
Man yu guy’s are so full of crap!!. with these so called rules or whatever you want to call them that are supposed to be common knowledge. There is a BUST factor in ANYU player. You must KNOW THAT player individually. Whatever position he or she plays that increase or decreases a bust factor.
the only reason that QB get the highest rating in terms of this stupid bust factor is that it is the SINGLE toughest position in sports to play. And the likelyhood of you being great early is very small. But the longer you stay in the league even THAT goes down.
So quit with the bust factor crap. IT’S THE PLAYER THAT COUNTS.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
I love Al Davis, but it seems lately he can Screw up a bowl of cornflakes…. (I know it seems like everyone in there Mother has an inside scoop) My brother and his wife have been working for the Raiders since 2003 (they didnt start getting paid till ‘05, Al taking advantage of interms) and word around the campfire is Al is demanding that Mcafee gets a full face lift or he wont sighn an extension. The Raiders are currently trying to obtain property around Mcafee (where the old HomeBase used to sit) for parking extension and other needs. The Minority owners of the Raiders also have ties to Anaheim…. and its already known Anaheim is trying to lure Al back with a tax-payer paid in full personel stadium with a West Coast Hall of Fame building to go along with it. Its also known that one of Goodells top priorities was to get football back in the nations 2nd biggest market (socal). SO IF NO EXPANSION TEAM OR EXISTING TEAM GOES TO SO CAL IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS, ITS A 50-50 CHANCE WE’LL LOSE THE RAIDERS AGAIN. THE PUBLIC VISIT TO DUBLIN WAS JUST A PLOY TO LET OAKLAND AND SO CAL KNOW THE RAIDERS ARE SEROIUS ABOUT MOVING FOR THE 3RD AND FINAL TIME. THE CITY OF OAKLAND IS WORKING FRANTICLY TO WORK OUT AN EXTENSION, BUT AL & CO. ARE STILL SOURED ABOUT THE ‘95 MOVE, PLUS OAKLAND IS THE 3RD SMALLEST MARKET IN THE NATION AND 2ND WORST IN REVENUES AND IT DOESNT HELP THAT PLAYERS AND OWNERS VOTED OAKLAND THE 2ND WORST VENUE IN THE NFL, SAN FRANCISCO WAS LAST. TROW IN ALL THE LAWSUITS AND IT DOESNT LOOK GOOD FOR RAIDER NATION. THE ONLY SMALL CHANCE IS THAT AL IS TO OLD FOR A MOVE, HIS SON MARK, LOVES THE BAY AREA AND AL JUST SIMPLY ADORES THE FANS IN OAKLAND, THE PROBLEM IS, AL ADORES MONEY EVEN MORE.
……….DONT BELEIVE ME? THEN DONT! MY SOURCE? LIKE I MENTIONED, MY LIL BROTHER WORKS FOR THE RAIDERS SO I GOT SOME FROM HIM BUT I DIDNT MENTION MY UNCLE WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE COLISUEM AUTHORITY BOARD AND IS CURRENTLY PRESIDENT OF THE OAKLAND CITY COUNCIL. ASIDE FROM TRYING TO PROVE HIS SONS INNOCENTS (MY COUSIN NACHO, ITS A LONG STORY) HIS TOP PRIORITY IS TO KEEP THE RAIDERS IN OAKLAND. LOSING THE MAYOR’S RACE AND HAVING MY UNCLE GO THREW EVERYTHING WITH MY COUSIN…. KEEPING THE RAIDERS IN OAKLAND WOULD BE A BIG BREATH OF FRESH AIR FOR THE FAMILY
January 17th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
McFadden is no LT, no Barry Sanders, no Walter Payton, but he would be our best RB since AD f@#ked us and let Allen go.
All of the other choices would simply be reaches, and would have a solid chance of being busts. McFadden is the closest thing to a sure thing in the entire draft.
And I am glad he stood up for his brother…what is scary is that he was in a piano bar. I suspect that if he is drafted by the Raiders he will probably buy a home across the bay.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
know it seems like everyone in there Mother has an inside scoop) My brother and his wife have been working for the Raiders since 2003 (they didnt start getting paid till ‘05, Al taking advantage of interms) and word around the campfire is Al is demanding that Mcafee gets a full face lift or he wont sighn an extension. The Raiders are currently trying to obtain property around Mcafee (where the old HomeBase used to sit) for parking extension and other needs. The Minority owners of the Raiders also have ties to Anaheim…. and its already known Anaheim is trying to lure Al back with a tax-payer paid in full personel stadium with a West Coast Hall of Fame building to go along with it. Its also known that one of Goodells top priorities was to get football back in the nations 2nd biggest market (socal). SO IF NO EXPANSION TEAM OR EXISTING TEAM GOES TO SO CAL IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS, ITS A 50-50 CHANCE WE’LL LOSE THE RAIDERS AGAIN. THE PUBLIC VISIT TO DUBLIN WAS JUST A PLOY TO LET OAKLAND AND SO CAL KNOW THE RAIDERS ARE SEROIUS ABOUT MOVING FOR THE 3RD AND FINAL TIME. THE CITY OF OAKLAND IS WORKING FRANTICLY TO WORK OUT AN EXTENSION, BUT AL & CO. ARE STILL SOURED ABOUT THE ‘95 MOVE, PLUS OAKLAND IS THE 3RD SMALLEST MARKET IN THE NATION AND 2ND WORST IN REVENUES AND IT DOESNT HELP THAT PLAYERS AND OWNERS VOTED OAKLAND THE 2ND WORST VENUE IN THE NFL, SAN FRANCISCO WAS LAST. TROW IN ALL THE LAWSUITS AND IT DOESNT LOOK GOOD FOR RAIDER NATION. THE ONLY SMALL CHANCE IS THAT AL IS TO OLD FOR A MOVE, HIS SON MARK, LOVES THE BAY AREA AND AL JUST SIMPLY ADORES THE FANS IN OAKLAND, THE PROBLEM IS, AL ADORES MONEY EVEN MORE.
……….DONT BELEIVE ME? THEN DONT! MY SOURCE? LIKE I MENTIONED, MY LIL BROTHER WORKS FOR THE RAIDERS SO I GOT SOME FROM HIM BUT I DIDNT MENTION MY UNCLE WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE COLISUEM AUTHORITY BOARD AND IS CURRENTLY PRESIDENT OF THE OAKLAND CITY COUNCIL. ASIDE FROM TRYING TO PROVE HIS SONS INNOCENTS (MY COUSIN NACHO, ITS A LONG STORY) HIS TOP PRIORITY IS TO KEEP THE RAIDERS IN OAKLAND. LOSING THE MAYOR’S RACE AND HAVING MY UNCLE GO THREW EVERYTHING WITH MY COUSIN…. KEEPING THE RAIDERS IN OAKLAND WOULD BE A BIG BREATH OF FRESH AIR FOR THE FAMILY
January 17th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Dell always good to hear your “voice” around here. Don’t know much about Oher but I like Merling and I REALLY LIKE Anthony Collins. They should call Collins “The Eclipse” because that guy can block out the sun for crissakes. My hope is either Lawrence Jackson DE USC or Ali Highsmith LB LSU fall to us in the 2nd round. Even with our selection of Dorsey or Chris Long, I would take Jackson or Highsmith in the 2nd. We took a QB and a TE 1-2 last year, and our defense is BEGGING for upgrades at a variety of positions. With Dorsey/Long and Jackson/HIghsmith, let me say, defensive problems would be SOLVED!
January 17th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
and what is the less probable position in football to be a bust, RB and LB, especially playing behind good lines, and Oaklines o line is great at run blocking!!!
So yeah, there is no way DMAC will be a bust with our system, after a mediocre RB ran 1000 yds starting about 12 games or something, i say this because Rhodes had 100 yds too the last 2 games
January 17th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
oakglenn then you are saying your 2 first picks are a sure thing saying problem solved!! lol
January 17th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
RJV78…you better hope no one from the Raiders reads this blog…you might have just got your little bro canned. I am sure only one person (your brother) working with the Raiders has an uncle that is the President of the Coliseum Board.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Here Dakota goes with the BUSH is an unknown as if McFadden is a known factor in the NFL. This is the stupid logic that just confounds me with some of you.
How is McFadden this sure shot can’t miss most outstanding talent we’ve ever seen? What a joke!
Well I’m just damn glad NONE of those that think he is, has anything to do with us picking him.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Frankly, I don’t care if the Raiders move back to LA. I am young enough to have started liking the Raiders when they played in LA, so it would be like going home for me!
January 17th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
That’s darn good news RJwhatever you are!
January 17th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
i wouldnt care if the raiders went to LA lol, our fan base would grow more, and a large part of my family live there
January 17th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
BHP,
I never said McFadden is a sure shot can’t miss prospect, I said he was the closest player to a sure thing in this year’s draft.
I never said he was the most outstanding talent we have ever seen, I said quite the opposite as a matter of fact. See #75.
Don’t come at me and put words into my mouth. It makes you look like a fool. Get your facts straight or shut your trap.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Oakland shuld bend over backwards to keep the Raiders. It’s will be the last sports team that will carry that name Oakland whn the A’s leave.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Damn you Peterson!! McFadden is NOT AP. I repeat, McFadden is NOT AP. Get that straight folks!
Land a guy like Slaton, Hart, Forsett or someone way down there that only Kiff knows about(Hightower, etc.)
There is no way we let all 3 of these guys go without bringing in some kind of veteran leadership at the position. Thinking Bush and McFadden will start next year is not clear thinking for this is not a video game.
It’s exciting and all to think about the possibilities but “ocassionally” we’re going to have to pass the ball to somebody(not Mcfadden, Dakota!!) and even make stops on defense.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
You build your team strong up the middle. This is true in EVERY SPORT. Minnesota could draft AP because they had Birk (pro bowler), Hutchinson (all world) and McKinnie on the left side of their OL AND the WILLIAMS’ BOYS (all world) DT’s on their D line. Shoot, with those studs, I would’ve taken AP too!!!!!!! We don’t have ANYONE NEAR that talent level on either line.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
its not a videogame, but man we had the 6th best rushing attack with a middle of the pack RB, we can get a top 5 RB for years to come, and we could get the best rushing tandem in the NFL with a great QB, its not madden but you can be unstoppable
January 17th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Did you say Bush was unknown as if McFadden was not. hah sissy. That’s what I was quoting from you. The rest was generally what I read in here.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
BHP dont get angry , were all raiders fans, we are just giving our opinion on a player, maybe they grab DMAC maybe dont, let us say what we want without you being hostile
January 17th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
I think the demise of the Raiders began upon their arrival in Los Angeles. Sure, they won the Super Bowl their first year there, but that was only because they had SO MUCH MOMEMTUM from their stay in Oakland as the preeminent organization in all of sport. Within 3 years, THREE FREAKING YEARS, after their arrival in LA, the Raider mystique and winning tradition was severely damaged. Other than one trip to the AFC Championship game in 1991 where they got pasted 51-3 by Buffalo, most of the LA Raider teams hovered around the .500 mark.
Restoring a winning tradition here in Oakland has been much tougher than any of us thought it would be. We have gone to a Super Bowl, and I think we’ve bottomed out, but the demise of the Raiders can be traced to their arrival in the LA basin.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
I’d take Ryan Grant over McFadden anyday!! Where was he drafted?
I just don’t get all of the hype.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
the broncos have been successful w/many RBs, but they have yet to equal the production and efficiency in the run game they had w/ portis, and vice versa, and mcfadden is much more talented than portis, he is the same caliber prospect that adrian peterson and ladanian tomlinson were when they came out, mcfadden would be a lock for rookie of the year with 1400+ yds and would be a candidate to lead the league in rushing every year in this system, the “wild-hog” system he ran in college relies on pocket movement, cut blocking, and deception, which happen to be the same elements implemented in the zone blocking system, only in the hog formation Run DMC is 2yds closer to the line of scrimage and standing up, factors that actually slow him down before he hits the hole, meaning his potential as an every down RB, which he was actually used more as in college and was more successful as, actually exceeds his production in his college formation, and the question of whether or not he can produce at the NFL level should be answered by his status as the 2nd leading all time and single season rusher in SEC history, after only 3 seasons, and even i will grudgingly admit that the SEC is the best conference in college football, and it’s a conference known for Defense, making the 2 time heisman finalist even more impressive, if he’s there at #3 or #4 we have to take him, and it has less to do with the drama at Rb than it does the need for and offensive player that other teams must account for, that other teams fear, we don’t know for a fact that russell will be that player, but we know mcfadden will be, and that will mean russell doesn’t have to be, and if/when he does become a franchise QB the explosiveness of our offense will/would be overwhelming, at every level of our defense, whether it be nnamdi in the secondary, burgess on the line, or morrison and howard at linebacker, we have at least one player who is one of the best players in the NFL at his position, on offense, we don’t have one of those players, slaton and charles, and even mendenhall if he falls to the 2nd would be intriguing long term options along side bush, but mcfadden is a special player and in the last decade there have only been 2 RB prospects of his caliber(bush was/is more of a hybrid RB/WR and the saints still havn’t figured out how to use him), and both of them were starters in the pro bowl this year, he is the best player in this draft and a steal at #3/4, there are always more defensive lineman(in fact this is a great FA year to be in the market for one), we have to take Darren McFadden
January 17th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
No, I just said Bush was an unknown…due to injury…I guess I have to spell it out for dudes like you that rode the little bus to school.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Lakers/Suns…TNT…gotta go. Night BHP, I know that you are just generally hostile, so I won’t take it personally.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
He is an unknown to YOU not coaching staff.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
No Bynum! Gonna be a tough month with the schedule.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Same coaching staff that didn’t place him on the roster last year (or was that AD’s doing)? Maybe he will never be the player he was in college…I guess we will see. Hopefully.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
The video game comment was about winning as opposed to highlights.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Oakglenn - You are a very scary man.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Oakglenn
Sorry I jumped ahead to ask this. But you keep saying if the other 2 guys are gone we have to take Dmac. Why do we have to take him? Who is the next pick that 3 or 4 would be to high to take them? Again sorry if you already answered this.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Hmmmmm, watch OG vs FK or LA vs PHO…..hmmmm…..
January 17th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
oakglenn, the 1983 team was arguably the greatest single season team in the history of the nfl, this years Pats team is the only team since to have that kind of balance, the demise of the raiders started when FA started and davis continued with his strategy of grabbing big name, over-priced, past-their prime, FAs, and bottoming out as they retired one after one, before FA you could do this because you didn’t have such strict expenditure restrictions, veterans eat up more cap than younger talented players and you get less production, the demise began at the start of the FA era, when his old tired strategies no longer worked he has refused to adapt and been a cancer to this team, until recently he has refused to build through the draft, and while he has historically been terrible in this category the last few drafts have been quite good, but the real problem has always been al davis, not LA, in fact, a move to the south might be the best thing for this team, and vice versa, but we have to start winning first, for which we need to address the D-line, O-line, SS, WR, and RB positions until that will become a viable option, there will have to be significant changes this offseason, which kiffin has promised and hopefully will follow through with
January 17th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Oakglenn - Wow, I was wrong about you. Anyone who knows where JaMarcus lives is clearly a man of inpeccable integrity. Your my hero.I especially enjoyed the part about you knocking me out.
By the way, are you a violent man?
When was the last time you were in a physical confrontation?
Have you ever knocked anyone out?
Or did you just prove yourself to be a LIAR again?
January 17th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
HR, my reasoning is you draft high because you have sooooo many needs. Our team has a plethora of needs. I’ve been harking on the DLine play for YEARS!!!! Our pass rush has been dismal, our run defense even worse. One thing that you’ll notice about the play off teams is they get great push up the middle, out of their defensive tackles. I think, with a great d lineman added or maybe even 2, a great one and a good one, our team is gonna improve greatly, because stellar defensive linemen will improve BOTH the pass defense and the run defense.
All that being said, if Dorsey and Chris Long are (pardon the pun) Long gone, and McFadden in staring us in the face, I feel you have to take him. And not for the reasons that everyone else has said. This kid has such a great knowledge of the offense and how to run it, that to me is most immpressive of all.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
why don’t you take your little baba and go away fire kiffin. nobody cares what you think about anything. you’re useless.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Oakglenn
Let me ask this. Say Dorsey and Long are gone. We sign Turner from SD. Who do you pick?
January 17th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Freeagency was and is still by far the most devastating thing to happen to the Raiders. Along with some very unfortunate injuries and deaths, and guy’s that just didn’t pan out. Call it bad drafts or whatever but guy’s like McGlockton, Russell, Bo Jackson. Not getting John Elway, Gannon’s injury and jsut a hos t of other factors contributed to the demise as you call it.
But had we been able to follow Plunkett with John Elway very little of this demise would have come to be.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Oakglenn - That’s what I thought.
Oakglenn, don’t let your mouth write checks your a$$ can’t cash.
Just Win Baby.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Trojan, I would completely disagree with that, not that what you’re saying is without merit. I think you are right in that the drafts, the players, and free agency all have been a major factor. But, you look at the history, look at the won-lost records, you can’t deny that the team that arrived in LA was arguably the most dominant in the history of sport. 13 years later, they were a mediocre franchise at best, with bad trajectory.
LA fan really didn’t care about the Raiders or pro football for that matter. Sure, there were people who lived and died with the Raiders in LA, but LA isn’t a football town like a Cleveland, a Pittsburgh or an Oakland. It’s just not. And the team reflected that.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Yes please.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
i told you kiffins gone tommorrow listen for the news conference
January 17th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Az Raider - You you sure?
January 17th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Oakglen - I’m not sure what you had in mind, but I’m waiting for my lesson…
January 17th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
That’s not funny Az!
January 17th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Oakglenn - Where did you go?
January 17th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Fire Kiffin you are the most reviled, disrespected poster on this site. It’s beneath me to even address you, you are everything that’s wrong with the world. No courage, no force of conviction, you’re not very smart, your thought processes are stunted, why don’t you go jump on Maddenraiders Whine train and go bitch somewhere else, little useless baby. wawawa.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
I’m Firekiffin please look at me, I’m an internet tuff guy, look at me, i’m important, really important, even if everything I say is dismal foolish drivel. look at me, look at me, I’m important.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
for all of you who clamor for DM,do you also think C.Brennan is the next Brady?he set munerous QB records at UH.let me guess,the answer is no because he played in a gimmick off. just like DM played in a gimmick off. at hogsville.there are other RBs out there who will be as good or better as pros.Dakota,please don’t tell other people to STFU unless you do the same.your lovefest toward DM is getting quite tiring and sickening.Kiffin’s not going anywhere,Al couldn’t find anyone else to do the job.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Glenn
Thanks for the response.
I have two more potential second round players to ask you about.
Devin Thomas> WR Michigan St.
Reggie Smith> Oaklahoma CB/S
Second round is our crucial pick, with no third at this time.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Oakglen - I am everything wrong with the world?
Was that my lesson?
January 17th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Oakglenn - What’s a tuff guy?
January 17th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
Oakglenn - That’s what I thought.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Wow. Nice left lefty!
January 17th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Dell, what you bring up is absolutely crucial. I think the 2nd rounder is potentially more important than the lst rounder!! Let’s say Dorsey or Long IS available when we pick, then I would think we would go Adarius Bowman the WR from OK state in the 2nd round. That kid is big 6′4″, fast and has good hands. Someone we could really use.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
btw Oakglenn,completely agree about LA being the main cause of the Raider demise.the team went from being a hard working,blue collar type team to a wussie,hollywood bunch of prima-donnas.although i can see it happening,i pray the Raiders never again leave their only true home-the Bay Area.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Glenn
Would you trade our high second for a lower second and also receive a third.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Lefty you bring up a great point. Brennan would’ve gone very highly last year. Probably the difference between Brennan and McFadden in my mind tho, is the level of competition. McFadden single handedly (almost) beat LSU. That’s pretty impressive. What isn’t impressive about McFadden is I would love to have the Arkansas Center and Left Guard. Those cats are studs.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Man. You guys realize the shift in post that is going to take place after we sign a couple FA? I have to ask you BHP. At what point after FA would you take Dmac? What holes would we have to fill for you to pick him? Or would you not take him at all?
January 17th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Lefty, exactly!! All that paint,and makeup and costumes and stupid sh**, that wasn’t the Oakland Raiders, that was the LA Raiders.
Dell, if Dorsey, McFadden or Chris Long arent there, I would trade out of my lst rounder, probably. There are still O linemen, and corners that we don’t need that someone would trade up and give us value for. Honestly tho, if it were me, I would try to get the third rounder back for Andrew Walter. Then with our high lst, and high 2nd and ANY 3rd rounder, I think we would have a pretty good shot at a GREAT DRAFT!! We draft well this time, especially on the D side of the ball, I think we’ll be alright.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
and he almost lost to Mississippi.hell, the other RB at hogsville also rushed for over a 1000 yds.that should tell you something.i watched DM play numerous games and he isn’t much, if any, better than quite a few RBs that will be available this year.plus Dakotas constant lovefest turns the guy off for me.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Glenn
Thanks, that third round we gave up for Henderson has a big Question mark by him and it is tough to sit there with possibly no third.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
You guys keep thinking there’s a good FA class. I really don’t. I think there’s a good draft class. I think there are good FA’s out there, but I’d be really surprised if they didn’t get resigned or franchised. In the modern era, smart teams build thru the draft and then once they’re winning, it’s easier to fill holes thru FA. No one wants to come to losing franchises unless they get paid big $$$$$$. Thanks all. Gotta go. What happened to fire kiffin??? Maybe he jumped in front of a train.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
The chance of the raiders moving again while Mr. davis is alive is slim and none and slim just left town. Mr. Davis came bavck to Oaktown to stay. All they have to do is negotiate in good and the Raider will stay, because this is where THEY want to be and only the city council and the voters can screw that up. They should be in short order the pride of Oakland once they start to win again and they will. The city of Oakland desparately needs the raiders, and the Raiders are right for Oakland. But the city needs to join the BIG TIME and biuld a word class edifice to draw tourist and locals.
The really should do it for the A’s but they just don’t understand what that sort of center of attraction does for a city because they’ve never had and it is a shame. A state of the art Baseball park in Jack london Square or someplace attractive would do wonders for that city and the city desparately needs it.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
before the Raiders moved to (i’ll never say) LA they had the longest streak for sellouts at the time.you NEVER heard about fights in the stands or fights with opposing team fans.It all started in LA.hopefully the powers that be realize this and don’t make that mistake again.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Dell once again, you’re exactly right. Mario Henderson looks REALLY GOOD as an athlete. The Raiders drafted him because he seemed to raise his game to the level of the competition. But I think he’s not showing up in the lineup any time soon, which as I say in my earlier posts, a 3rd rounder should be a starter on your team. A good starter. That one, along with Moses kinda hurts.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Priest, bring this up some time when I can hang and discuss this. I’d love to chime in on the whole stadium thing, A’s, Raiders, etc. I stand by my argument tho: go look at the won-loss records and upon their arrival in LA 3-4 years later, the team was mediocre. At best. Getting that winning attitude back has been tuff. Later all.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
with kiffin gone and RR and Al running the draft our pick will be dmac
January 17th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
I wonder what the bust % per position is in recent drafts.
Where’s Huff when you need him?
January 17th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Priest-what about Trask?it seems as if she is running the business part and really enjoys her “power”.would she be willing to move if it helped solidify her position of power?
January 17th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Hell Raiders, it’s very hard for me to justiy pickng Mcfadden. Because I know how the coaching staff feels about Bush and Fargas. The only way that I would consider it is if we lost all the HB’s except Bush and in the mini camp prior to the draft the coaching staff sort of soured on Bush. Then it would become a priority. But that wuld be the only way because I would then be looking for an impact player at the HB position. But as I see it we have a bonafide star at HB and a proven player in Fargas and Rhodes. Plus there are some HB’s that I like almost as much as i like McFadden in this draft and that’s what the Mcfadden fans don’t get. there are some fanfastic tailbacks in this draft NOT named McFadden so why would I use that high of a pick on him? It doesn’t make good sense if you understand the draft. You don’t just look at one player and fall in love with him. If you’re smart and understand the draft you compare him to his class and see how well he stands out, then relate that to your needs. You don’t just go oh! he’s so great look what he would do for our offense that’s for fans. As player personnel guy you’ve got to be more circumspect than that.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
AZ RAIDER,…seeing how nobody is paying much attention to you I will,…youre a dork,…as far as a move to L.A. it aint happening,…I doubt L.A. will ever have the NFL there again, they dont want it,…the Raiders will have an announcement in a year or so for a new stadium,…probably east bay, inland more,..like Dublin,..thats what been mentioned anyway,…what they should do is level the coliseum and rebuild on that site,..play for 2 years at either Cal or Standford…oh in case you missed it AZ RAIDER,..youre a dork.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Lefty 12, now you’ve hit on it. People underestimate Amy’s business sense. She is one very shrewed woman. A great lawyer and a very astute business dealer. Most of what you see going on with the business side of the Raiders is Amy and the legal dept.
If Mr. davis leaves this contract undefined in the future and the Coliseum Commision aren’t smart enough to sew this thing up prior to Mr Davis passing anything and I do mean anything can happen.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Priest what section you in?….hey theres a guy that calls the local sports talk shows here,..goes by “Priest”…is that you?…Im in section 127….by Darth Raider
January 17th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Priest even with scenario you put out there,i don’t see how we take the guy.there are too many other options available later in the draft.this is a very deep class as far as RB is concerned,especially with some of the under classman coming out.RB should be a very LOW priority for us.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Grant, what are doing in here? If this is really you I’ve got some questions.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Yes Priest,..no Lamb here with me though,…Giants win big this sunday.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Priest-comment 149-that’s what i’m afraid of!!!!
January 17th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
BHP
Cool. I for one am glad Fargas had the year he did. He deserved it. I’m not sold on the fact that he can keep it up do to his running style and his past with injuries. I find Mcfadden interesting simply because of you tube. I don’t watch college football and don’t even pretend to know anything about the player’s coming out. That’s why I ask you guys directly why you like someone over somebody else. But I understand what you are saying, but at the same time the limited amount that I have seen of him I can understand why these guys want him.
If you look back over the season. We were one big play way from winning a lot of those games. Could JRuss be the difference? Who knows? But I don’t think we are all the far from .500 or better.
Give me 2 Rb’s you might take before McFadden so I can look them up.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Hell-i know you directed your question to BHP but try Stewert from Oregon,mendenhall from illonois,and Hart from Mich.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Lefty those guys all suck,..its McFadden or draft another position.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
People have mentioned Slaton as a good fit for a zone block scheme. He is fast and is the type of back who can make one quick cut and be gone. The only problem he is more like a 10-15 touch a game player w/ his size. I could see him returning kicks though. People have said 2nd rd for him but I think he could drop to the 3rd or even 4th (even though we don’t have 3rd). The DMac scenario hinges on us locking Fargas up before FA begins. Rhodes should not be brought back unless he takes a pay cut to less than $2mi.
Hopefully Kiff will find a few players he really likes in the Senior Bowl who will fit well in our system so we can find contributors in the 2-5 rds. The Giants had like 10-11 rookies on their playoff roster who got PT. We had a good draft last year but if we could get 6-8 contributors that could put us over the hump in a lot of games next year.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Yeah Grant it’s me.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
my point is there are other good options later.and i beg to differ-they don’t suck-two of those will be as good or better pros than DM.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
You guys got me thinking about Henderson, as of now, we all hate the fact we gave up our 3rd rounder this year for him so I went back for some insight on the guy…found this..
”According to Charley Casserly, a CBS Sportsline contributor and former general manager, the young tackle excelled as a senior against top-notch first-round defensive ends Gaines Adams and Jarvis Moss.”
Even though Casserly´s words are encouraging and I hope he develops, I have to say I see Sam Williams written all over him and I think we´ll regret trading that pick away. In fact, I´m already bitter about it.. *#%& crap.
Anyone actually watched him play? he better have dominated Adams and Moss…
January 17th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
I don’t think there is a RB that I would take B4 McFadden in this draft, but there are some very good ones that may have better careers than McFadden. Understand that is not a need. But Hart from Mich, Stewart from Ore. is the most underrated player in this draft IMO, Felix has very good potential, the HB from Texas is just like the kid KC hit us with this season Smith he was Bush’s backup, there is a that I really like that I’m not going to mention that really excites me, I’ll tell you when the combine rolls around he is everything you want tosee from a scatback.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
The Raiders should take McFadden if hes there,…most experts like Mel Jr have him as the number one player on the board….so does McShay.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Bob how can you be bitter about it when as you say you’ve never seen him play?it’s ironic that everyone gets so upset because they don’t get to see all the rookies play right away.while it’s true other teams throw their rookies out there right off the bat,it is the Raider custom to sit them their first year.usually even 1st rounders don’t even play until the middle of their rookie years.that’s just the Raider way.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Marley the guy was drafted in the 3rd rnd why would he have to dominate Adams the 7th overall pick? You’re not making sense here. If this Henderson kid turns out to be a player of Gaines Adams calibre he would be a steal. I think he willplay and within the next 2 years but I don’t see a dominant player by any stretch but if he can come in contribute that’s what your looking for. A guy that you can groom. Eventually be a starter.
Can’t ask for more than that.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
So what!!
January 17th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
We need Mcfadden almost as much as we need a QB.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Hell-btw,iwouldn’t take any of the other RBs before DM,i just wouldn’t take DM with our pick.we have too many other needs and as BHP says taking DM is a luxury pick-a luxury we can’t afford.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Grant,how’s the weather back east tonight?Go Pack!!
January 17th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Lefty..
Believe me, I did not expect him to play at all this year, I was speaking on a feeling I get that he will turn out like Sam Williams, all the skills but somehow not able to put it togheter for a variety of reasons. I´m not really bitter..I´m just projecting my bitterness in advance in case he doesn´t pan out. It´s all speculation on my part, I said I hope he does develop.
BHP
Actually, he costed us two 3rd round picks and Casserly said he excelled against both Adams and Moss who went like 18th…I´m not expecting Ogedn here but at least an above average OL.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Bob sorry for the misunderstanding.you did say you were already bitter though.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Well BOB take easy on yourself, he’s going to be decent to good based on what I hear so let’s just give it the requisite time and see.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
I would like to go WR or DT in the 2nd round. If Malcom Kelly, Limas Sweed, or Early Doucet fell to us that would be cool w/ me. I just know it is sometimes hard for rookie WR to contribute. We should prob. go DT there if we don’t in rd. 1 to shore up our run D.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Someone who I think could help us on D and special teams is Tom Zbikowski from ND. He will prob. fall to the 4th or 5th too. I want to sign a FA SS and move Huff to FS. But Tom Z is the kind of hitter we need at SS. I was watching Atari Bigby in the GB game this weekend and he was killing dudes. We sorely need a hitter back there.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Lefty..BHP
Yeah, no problem….I did say it..and I´d love for him to make look like a damm fool!.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
alot of what happens at WR will be dependent upon FA.i for one believe Higgins will have a much bigger impact than most anticipate.if we either resign JP or sign a