Not worth it
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Saturday, March 1st, 2008 at 5:41 pm in Oakland Raiders.
I remember last year around this time when Raider fans, anxious for a piece of free agent action, were ready to pitch themselves out of windows because players scheduled for visits such as running back Travis Henry and tight end Daniel Graham ended up signing with Denver.
So Bernard Berrian signs with Minnesota and Donte Stallworth with Cleveland . . . so what?
Berrian, Stallworth and Jerry Porter pocketed $36 million worth of guaranteed money in the free agent market.
Porter’s career high in receiving yards is 998, Berrian had a personal best 951 last season and Stallworth topped out at 945 in New Orleans.
None of them, obviously, were among the 23 receivers in the NFL who had 1,000 yards receiving in 2007. Or among the 19 that had 1,000 yards in 2006. Or included in the group of 20 that had 1,00 yards in 2005.
In 2004, 24 receivers had 1,000 yards receiving and Porter was 25th at 998.
Getting 1,000 yards in the NFL doesn’t make you an elite receiver. It just includes you in the conversation of the very good.
As shaky as the Raiders receiving corps looked last season, much of the lack of production had to do with quarterback play. If Oakland can get JaMarcus Russell going and adequately protect him, receiving numbers will follow.
And those numbers won’t come at the cost of Porter, Berrian or Stallworth.
Losing players such as Henry and Graham wasn’t what hurt the Raiders last season, because they were outperformed by the likes of Justin Fargas and Zach Miller. Both came much cheaper and established themselves as part of Oakland’s future.
Sometimes the best free agent move is the guy you didn’t sign.
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March 1st, 2008 at 5:42 pm
So Bernard Berrian signs with Minnesota and Donte Stallworth with Cleveland . . . so what?
agreed
March 1st, 2008 at 5:43 pm
dos
March 1st, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Drew Carter, he’s the under the radar guy we need to bring in.
March 1st, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Nice blog, Jer..Them cats arent worth it in retro..
March 1st, 2008 at 5:46 pm
But someone has to play WR. Who?
March 1st, 2008 at 5:48 pm
1,00 yards in 2005.
i think u need to add another 0
i didnt realize how many receivers had 1,000 yards
March 1st, 2008 at 5:50 pm
draft day trade dh…Dont overpay for scraps, give picks for squirrly vets (see chad johnson)
March 1st, 2008 at 5:52 pm
I think we should wait until the feeding frenzy stops. Sometimes we can get someone who has some talent and is a better fit that will work at least as a 3rd reciever and hope JLH develops and Curry stays healthy. It would be nice to get some young legs instead of Dwight again.
March 1st, 2008 at 5:56 pm
what’s wrong with javon walker ?
March 1st, 2008 at 5:56 pm
yeah dwight is out, for sure…Johnny Lee best be makin some egg milkshakes and tri tip..
March 1st, 2008 at 5:56 pm
First off, everyone of those WR’s were average guys who wanted waaaaay above average $$$. And then what do you do? Live with them, like we did with Porter or try to move them or cut them and take a huge cap hit. No way. Everyone around the league KNOWS we’re gonna be a run first team under Kiff. That means bringing in Prima Donna WR’s who think they’re better than they are is gonna be tuff. We’re gonna have to get WR’s thru the draft or as original free agents. I don’t think we have any other options.
March 1st, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Great points Jerry. I definitely agree that while we panic now, who knows how the team will actually perform.
With that said, I still think we are short 1 Defensive Lineman and a Left tackle… Hopefully we can get both in the first 2 rounds of the draft.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Even if we draft a WR early, we can not expect him to contribute that same season. History indicates this is the case. I’m sure we will sign someone that has experience before this thing is over.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Looks like a team that is trying build thru the draft and get FA help when necessary. Pretty weak safety class, get Wilson. Pay thru the nose for a FA DT or wait for the draft where the pickin’s are VERY good.
Come on fellas. There’s a 3 year plan in effect here. Look who we’ve signed…
Williams, Fargas, Nnamdi, Kelly, etc. All drafted by the Raiders or came on as undrafted.
This is good management and business. You only go BIG in FA when you’re close, we’re in year 2 of the Al Kiffin plan.
Reminds me of the Steelers. ‘09 is the year!!
March 1st, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Assassin is right. we’ll probably grab a vet WR on the last round of cuts before the season.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Not worth it is right! Why overpay for Berrian and Stallworth… the only reason they command that much money is because the market for WR is really thin. One thing to Berrian….have fun with Tarvaris as your QB! He is horrible….at least Stallworth has an up and coming offense to work in.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Ebenezer Ekuban? What the hell? Why even bother with these guys? He isn’t that good and hes coming off an injury. They’re treating this defensive line like it has little value to it and until they fix it, we will continue to have problems as a defense. Does this not make sense to the Raiders? They are quick to sign a safety but not quick to sign REAL defensive lineman? Unbelievable.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Thats all good but lets not lose sight of we do need player or two at WR position. All our eggs are in the basket of 2 torn Achilles Curry. If he goes down we got nothing. Don’t even talk about JLH
March 1st, 2008 at 6:09 pm
check one ,two, check one two….
we should go after bryant johnson. he can be a good talent for us he shouldn’t be that expensive he was a third receiver in arizona. then find a diamond in the ruff in the draft
March 1st, 2008 at 6:11 pm
We definitley need WR help though. Who are the best in the Draft this year? Calvin Johnson had a mediocre season, struggled with injury. Steve Smith seemed to flourish in the right system in NY. What are your thoughts?
March 1st, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Evening…
Huff24
Which ”real” DL would you have liked?.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:17 pm
The Freak is comin, the Freak is coming..
March 1st, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Heard anything about Henderson??
March 1st, 2008 at 6:18 pm
NO resigned him to a petty contract.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:19 pm
i agree bryant johnson is a player who had to play behind fitz, and antoine. but he makes plays.also don’t be surprised if we endup with a third round pick to get a receiver. will franklin comes to mind.( big receiver with size and ran a 4.32 )
man…. hated to see chris clemmons get away , least he’s not gonna be in our division.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Too bad. A WR trade is coming…
March 1st, 2008 at 6:23 pm
SaintKaufman said it best so far…I would respectfully remind him, and the rest of Raider Nation that while Cowher and other coaches had the luxury of working for owners who understood that ROME DOESN’T GET BUILT IN A DAY, Kiff doesn’t…Gruden was the only coach since the return to Oakland that had sufficient time to build the Raider division winning teams of 2000-02, and he only was here for four years…
Maybe Al is starting to rethink one of his many slogans…”we don’t rebuild, we reload…”
With the CBA set to be overturned by the owners, Davis faces the real possibility of getting into bidding wars with the likes of Snyder, Jones, Kraft, and other big market teams…there is NO WAY we will be able to compete against those markets…the Raiders will become just like the Athletics…you win through the draft and player development, sign your rough diamonds to long-term deals, and hope the breaks go your way before they all leave for greener pastures…
March 1st, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Henderson is completely unreliable…
March 1st, 2008 at 6:25 pm
You’re so wise, Jerry.
But, you have to admit, we DO need speed at the position.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm
The best value left at WR are Hackett, Javon Walker, and Drew carter. Although Carter has never really done anything so I guess he might not be even be an upgrade to JLH. Kiffin said he regretted not getting more snaps to JLH, and he thought he did not get a good opportunity to showcase his skills.
Hackett is the best option. Walker may just be too fragile both mentally and physically.
I am not sold on Bryant Johnson although I heard people say he is the best WR you have never seen because he was behind two good ones.
What about the Niners old WR Antonio Bryant? I wonder if he has changed after sitting out a year? He is a deep threat.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Jerry, for the first time ever I agree with your take, scary!
BRYANT JOHNSON
CHAD JOHNSON
Make it happen Al
March 1st, 2008 at 6:28 pm
I just keep going back to it takes two to tango ..
Would love to trade for Roy Williams or Chad Johnson. The question is, would the Begals and Lions be willing to deal with us? Or any other team with a WR that we may want.
Same with trading down. It would make all the sense in the world to at least trade down with the Jets to #6. Again, would they or any other team be willing to deal with us?
That’s the X factor in all of this.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Bob Marley - Justin Smith would have been a start. I’d say we could have traded for Stroud or Corey Williams or Kris Jenkins but we don’t have a 3rd round pick. I’m sure we could have packaged something together either way.
DE:
Marques Douglas, Jevon Kearse, Travis LaBoy, Bobby McCray, Mike Rucker.
DT:
Grady Jackson, Larry Tripplett, William Joseph.
These names are better than signing Tommy Kelly to a huge contract or looking at Ekuban.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Maybe we can score any of these three WRs in the later rounds…
Davone Bess
Overview
Undersized, but dynamic slot receiver prospect who may lack the name recognition of a Darius Reynaud or Dorien Bryant, but is considered in some scouting circles to be an equivalent — or perhaps even better prospect. Despite all of the focus on quarterback Colt Brennan, scouts view Bess as the top prospect coming out of Hawaii this year. What Bess lacks in height he makes up for with reliable hands and good agility to generate extra yardage after the catch.
Ryan Grice-Mullen
Analysis
Positives: Good initial quickness off the snap. … Flashes burst out of his breaks. … Generally reliable hands and shows the body control to adjust and make the difficult reception. … Good lateral quickness to make defenders miss in the open field.
Negatives: More quick than fast. … May struggle to generate separation from defenders in more traditional offenses due to only marginal quickness out of his breaks. … Only normal acceleration when breaking into the open field and too often doesn’t separate from defenders. … Can be caught from behind.
Jason Rivers
Analysis
Positives: Good size for the position. … Good initial quickness. … Understands what the defense is trying to do and can find the open hole in the zone. … Works his way back to the quarterback when he senses pressure. … Catches the ball cleanly and shows the body control to adjust to poorly thrown passes. … Uses his size to compete for jump balls and was a favorite target here in the red zone. … Showed toughness and competitiveness against Georgia in the Sugar Bowl (10 receptions for 105 yards) when most of his teammates looked out-classed athletically.
Negatives: Lacks downfield speed, and despite good route-running skills lacks standout agility. … Lets too many passes get into his chest. … Only adequate quickness and toughness to get off press coverage despite his size. … Production is more of a statement about this offense than Rivers’ own ability.
Sorry, but my UH bias is clearly showing…LOL
March 1st, 2008 at 6:36 pm
here no evil,see no evil…
i talk alot of bull@#&!, so many dang people sure
is full of it
it’s da raider rukas, ya know i aint havin it
give me some wood i’ll build you a cabinet…..
whoever thinks mr.davis ain’t getting a receiver is trippin . if he’s happy wit our d-line he will take a receiver in the 2nd round . let’s not forget my brothas that al knows how to trade up. when all is said and done linds. thinks jake long is a raider , al knows the receiver he wants he’s gonna trade up giving our 2nd round pick to get back into the 1st round and snatch wr. …….. hmmmm
March 1st, 2008 at 6:36 pm
The lions are the most susceptible to trade because Roy is asking for 30 million guaranteed, and probably will get it now that players like Berrian are getting 16 million.
They will most certainly take a deal. Maybe Roy williams and their first for our #4 overall pick. That would take us out of the Vershon Gholston sweepstakes, but Clady, Williams, Kentwan Balmer hunt. Maybe even Dorsey because of fears about his knee. The DE from USC could also help.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:38 pm
DesertRaider - The Raiders had their most success when there was no salary cap. They won 3 Superbowls and attended 4 altogether. The Salary Cap was established in 1992 I believe? We have been a struggling team during that time with only 1 trip to the Superbowl. I believe AD could keep up with the big market teams because I believe he has a big market team. I think we’d beat out alot of owners for players without the salary cap and we’d have greater players and greater teams. Just my opinion.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Javon Kearse is worth the risk at this point because Philly snatched Clemmons. We need more depth.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Bob Marley - You don’t think Walter and 4th round pick for Kris Jenkins could have been another possibility? Just throwin stuff out there.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:41 pm
I think our WRs we drafted last year are going to get a long look in the offseason workouts before the draft.
Johnnie Lee Higgins
Jonathan Holland
Chris McFoy
March 1st, 2008 at 6:42 pm
I’ll always root for the underdog…I always enjoy seeing lower round guys, or even better, UNDRAFTED GUYS make their mark in the NFL…it partially explains my loyalty to the Silver and Black…
March 1st, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Huff24
Actually, I said a few days ago that we should offer AW and a 5th or even a 4th for Jenkins. Seems like a reasonable deal to us, but to be honest, if I´m Carolina I´d rather take the Jets 3rd (around the 70th pick) and 5th.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:43 pm
McFoy was an undrafted free agent I believe.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Bears re-signed Lance Briggs to a six-year, $36 million contract.
Source: Chicago Sun Times
March 1st, 2008 at 6:47 pm
mista brown ….
bryant johnson would be a steal if we could grab him! he could be a motha %&@#!& star for us when all is said and done. dang this is the year it’s crystal clear al davis has a plan, NFL beware. cal has another wide out who played opposite of jackson don’t know his name but he’s pretty darn good too. another rec. from michigan,opposite of manningham he’s a player too…. with only curry who is somewhat proven al gonna bring in some wideouts…. believe dat !
March 1st, 2008 at 6:47 pm
DickV
I like that trade scenario. One of the best I’ve seen. Again, to good to be true th at the Lions would “play ball” with us. Who would they be eyeing at 4?
Maybe we could dangle Fabes or Burgess straight up for Willams?
March 1st, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Receivers are supposed to be plentiful in this draft, so it doesn’t really make sense to break the bank for Berrian et al. With our first two picks we need to concentrate on the lines, or as someone on this blog suggested some time ago……..get McFadden then shop him around like a call girl at a convention. I hear that J. Jones at Big D wants him bad. Since he’s buddies with Al, maybe we could get a host of goodies for a pick that is probably too expensive for us anyways. Remember, Jamarcus gets more costly as time goes by, so we don’t really want to drop a ton of money on another rookie contract at this point in time.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Does anybody know how long we have Morrison and Howard under contract for?
March 1st, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Bob Marley - The Panthers may not have had any interest in Walter and that would make a difference as well. Maybe Dominic Rhodes? They could use some more RB depth with Deshaun Foster gone. They only have DeAngelo Williams. Maybe Rhodes and a 4th? Hell, give them Rhodes and Jordan for Jenkins.
Look…I could give a crap about any position other than offensive and defensive line at this point. Thats the bread and butter and we’re nothing without that. I would agree that Kelly is a sign that we’re addressing the need but why pay him that much money? Nobody else was going to cough up that much money for him and hes not a superb player and hes coming off an injury.
Kwame Harris? Fine. I can deal with it if Cable can turn that guy around which I trust.
The most important thing to do in our division is stop the run. We NEED to start signing some quality guys in order to do that and to build the foundation from the ground up otherwise, we’ll still continue to struggle. Period.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Huff24
As for the rest of the players you mentioned, the DT´s as you said, all costed a 3rd and a 5th, and they all received at least the same money Kelly got.
So, not only we´d be paying at least 18 million guaranteed, but we would have also had to fork over draft picks or players.
I rather have Kelly for 18 million without giving up draft choices, same goes for Justin Smith at 20 million.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Good point about losing the draft picks on top of paying the $
March 1st, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Bob Marley - Well. We suck as a defensive line and Kelly is apart of that so if you’re comfortable with that, I don’t know what else to say. I’d rather sign nobody and watch our defensive line suck then to give wasted money to Kelly and watch us still suck.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Huff24
As for the Kelly deal, if you have the time, check the last thread where I posted some things about it…it´s among the first posts.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Bob Marley - What do you think about the other players I listed who are not signed currently?
March 1st, 2008 at 6:54 pm
What’s with the coaching situation, Marley? Jerry McDonald seems to concur with his colleagues that the situation is “at an impasse”, which I could only assume to mean that nothing has changed, and that Kiffin and Davis are not cool. What’s your take? Josh McCown is gone, now. He was an obvious Kiffin fave. Was this Kiffin’s decision?
March 1st, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Stay away from Chad Johnson or Roy Williams…both high-maintenance guys. We dont need these prima donnas yelling in JR’s ear every time they dont get the ball and shaking his confidence.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Hmmm…good points Huff24, but FA during our championship years was nothing like the FA of today…there was no salary cap because there was NO FA, at least not in the form that we have today. If anything, the NFL during the ’70s and ’80s was very much like major league baseball was before ‘74…
Baseball FA development during the ’70s is roughly what NFL FA is today…a NFL player has to have a certain # of years of service before becoming a true “Free Agent” (hence the classifications of restricted vs. unrestricted). NFL owners, however, have a trump card–the franchise player tag–something baseball owners wish they had…
March 1st, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Huff24
As for the cost of the Kelly deal, if you have the time, check the last thread where I posted some facts about it…it´s among the first posts.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Our D line does not suck. C’mon!
We sucked last year because we were HURT!
Kelly and Warren will be healthy at DT. Those guys are productive. Sands as a rotational player, with Shaw as the 4th string guy does not suck.
What’s wrong with Burgess and Richardson at DE to go along with Gholston or Long at #4?
Now if Warren and Kelly and Burgess ALL go down again this year, yeah we’ll suck again and have another high draft pick. If they don’t go down, we’re right where we need to be.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Sorry to get off topic, but diversions from time to time can be good…especially when it’s the first week of the FA period…
What about bringing back Grady Jackson? Like anything else, if the price is right, let’s do it…the guy is over 340 pounds!
As to the draft…it’s been my mantra…Dorsey or Ellis…ohhhmmmm…
March 1st, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Bob Marley - I read your post again. I understand that Kelly’s contract is comparable to the other players listed but do you honestly believe that Kelly deserves that? I don’t care if someone else gave up that much money to the other players. Kelly is worth HALF of what they got. Period. I would have signed the guy to a 1 year contract because of his injury and because he hasn’t proved to be a great player. Just because the other guys have lesser stats than Kelly, doesn’t mean they deserved it and it doesn’t mean that Kelly deserves it either.
Give Kelly a 1 year contract worth 5 million for the year with a 2.5 signing bonus and lets see what happens. If he decides to leave instead then oh well. We wouldn’t be losing much anyways.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Looks like I double posted, wait..got some issues here.
March 1st, 2008 at 6:59 pm
waz up wit kwame harris? iz he close to signing wit the raiders or is he elswere??????
March 1st, 2008 at 6:59 pm
All in all…im happier with the subtractions than I am with the additions so far..call it addition by subtraction. Getting rid of Mcklown, Brayton, Sims and Porter is a step in the right direction. Next and sooner rather than later… Stu, Jordan and a few others need to get the boot.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Huff24
I know Kelly doesn´t deserve that money right now, I expect him to play a lot better at his natural position and make that deal seem reasonable, I understand your disbelief, but that´s the market.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:04 pm
I find it hard to believe that Kiffin would get rid of McCown. Doesn’t McCown’s release indicate that things are not ok between Kiffin and Davis? Can this team win with this kind of turmoil? Are our free agent acquisitions good enough to play well without a head coach?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Ahhh…NFL FA is now becoming like major league baseball…a .250 hitter can now obtain a 10 million dollar a year contract…
welcome to free market economics…it may be a pile of sh*t, but it’s the best pile of sh*t, and if you need it, they you’re paying for it…LOL
March 1st, 2008 at 7:05 pm
LOL maddenraider…
you cant be that clueless..
March 1st, 2008 at 7:07 pm
JHill - Give me a break. If our defensive line doesn’t suck then you must be happy watching RB’s run right through them.
Kelly is mediocre. He plays small at DT and too slow at DE. We traded for Warren who has ALWAYS been injury prone. You expect these guys to hold up for 16 games? Sands has proven that he isn’t good as a starter or a situational player. I see offensive lineman consistently stand him up and push him back on almost every play. He doesn’t play low and he doesn’t play strong. We overpaid for him because he’s a big guy, not because he has skill. Warren Sapp played too light last year and found himself overshooting the gaps that Sands couldn’t contain and Sapp would find himself behind the RB all too regularly.
Shaw? What the hell? What has he done to merit him a good player? Burgess is great but hes one dimensional. We need to stop the run since everyone runs on us so easily. Richardson is a Tommy Kelly, Tyler Brayton replica. They are high motor guys who have heart but will never be great at either stopping the run or getting to the passer. Period.
Gholston is small. Long would be great but he may not be at #4.
I guarentee you we will still suck on the defensive line even if all of the guys are healthy and we will still see guys run right through our defensive line.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Yes, I am. I’m THAT clueless.
I do know this: Kiffin started McCown all season, when he was healthy. McCown is cut. Was it Kiffin’s decision? If not, and I doubt it was, is Kiffin ok with the decision? Doesn’t McCown being gone indicate that things are not ok between Kiffin and Al? Can a team win when the head coach and the general manager are clashing like this?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:09 pm
I’m not looking for clues, “yalls trippin”. I’m asking simple questions. You can either answer them, or duck them.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:09 pm
MaddenRaider…
Well, I like the take some NFL guy gave Jason Jones of sacbee.com the unnamed guy said ”they will butt heads because they have the same personality” it may not word by word, but that was the idea.
The fact, provided it´s true, that it was reported Mark Jackson was heavily involved in the Kelly and Wilson deals leads me to believe things will be fine.
After all, Jackson is Kiffin´s man….he had no previous relationship with Davis, why would Davis allow him to handle his money if he´s so pissed at Kiffin? or if he´s a goner.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:10 pm
MaddenRaider - Honestly. Who cares right now? McCown is gone. YAY! I could care less who made that decision, as long as it was made.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Exactly ..
Just a stirrer of the pot.
McClown CHOSE to leave for a chance to START.
He was A FREE AGENT!
Cmon with that!
March 1st, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Im wondering…. if Kiffin is going to get fired, why now?
Could it be because AD wants to wait till after he lures and signs every available FA, make every possible trade and then fire Kiffin?
Every report indicates he’s gonna get the boot…true or not, it wont help in FA or trading block if it happens now
March 1st, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Yeah what is the latest with Harris?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:12 pm
hey the ultimate power move…..
a trade with arizona for wide receiver larry fitzgerald. i see it . it’s so clear it’s crystal you heard it from da rukas first.
word out of jacksonville jerry porter already wearing a dress!
March 1st, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Huff24:
while giving Kelly a 1 yr contract to prove himself sounds well and good, the fact is if we didn’t give him the money the Broncos or another team would have done it. He was a free agent and was ready to walk, and the Broncos wanted him badly. We would have lost him and gained nothing. Look at all the teams after DTs. They’re trading picks and then doing similar deals for guys who are going into the downside of their careers.
Kelly + #4 pick
better than
#4 pick
Now we have our DTs and have lots of options with the #4 — DE, LT, RB, trade down. Without the Kelly deal, our only real options were Dorsey (damaged goods) or Ellis (huge reach).
Signing Kelly will prove to a very good move. Mark my words (in chalk, in case I’m wrong and we need to erace them).
March 1st, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Madden…
As for McCown, don´t forget 2 things:
a) Yes, he was Kiffin´s guy last year, but they had no relationship prior to that, I don´t think they´re that close.
b) Most importantly, Kiffin himself named Russell the starter for next season already. McCown has a shot at starting in Miami and they gave him good money too, it´s a no brainer for Josh.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Larry Fitzgerald is counting 12 million or so against the cap. Maybe more. NOBODY will trade for him.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Huff, you don’t care that a qb who our head coach was big on was cut? If the decision was made over Kiffin’s head, then this would indicate Kiffin has been stripped of pretty much everything. Can a team win with this kind of turmoil? What can sign the pro bowl roster, what good is it without a coach? I want to know that our Head Coach is happy here and the team is moving in a positive direction. I just can not see how that is possible if this Head Coach’s go to QB was cut, rather he liked it or not.
Marley, thanks for somewhat addressing my question. But we’re talking about the quarterback position, and Kiffin is an offensive coach. Do you honestly believe that it was Kiffin who decided to get rid of McCown, after siding with him all of last year? Of course you don’t buy that. So, Kiff’s quarterback has just been taken away from him, how can anyone believe all is well right now? This isn’t just Kiff and Al disagreeing on something. This would be a major power play, with Kiffin on the losing end of the stick. There is no way a team is going to play well if that kind of turmoil exists.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Putting our run defense squarely on the shoulders of the front four is wrong!
March 1st, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Thanks for talking some sense, Jerry.
The Raiders do need threats at WR, as there is not much there. But no need to pay what Berrian got.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Pirate - We’d probably be able to run all over the Broncos Defensive Line if they signed Kelly and they’d use up their own cap room for him. I’d be ok with that. I think some of you guys hold him too high. I don’t need chalk to share my opinion because I’m sold on his ability. I don’t need to erase anything because things aren’t going to change.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Madden - Didn’t mean to be a punk….
McCown said he’d love to stay in Oakland and help groom JR IF he couldn’t compete to start anywhere…Obviously Tuna told him what he wanted to hear and paid him a trial salary…(Look for Miami to draft Matt Ryan, start McCown next year, then cut him at the end of year..McCown makes a great starting placeholder for a rebuild year as well as a carrerr backup..)
No way would Al pay 6 1/4 mil. for a guy with the heart of a lion but the arm of a noodle…Just Win Baby
March 1st, 2008 at 7:19 pm
SaintKaufman - Its not only the defensive line’s fault but it is the primary reason. Thats why they’re the first line of defense and the linebackers are the 2nd and the secondary is just that…they’re secondary. It all starts up front.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Huff24,
I smell what your droppin’, but I just don’t think that we “suck”.
Room for improvement? I’d agree, although I don’t see DT as a weakness. JMO. Kelly will be solid.
I’d move Richardson to Burgess’ spot, trade Burgess, and draft Long/Gholston to rush opposite the LT, NOT THE RT. Those moves upgrade our run D and pass rush.
I agree with Sapp’s gap jumping assesment. Couple that with the injuries and that’s why we got ran over. Or the main reason anyway.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:19 pm
How do you “cut” or “get rid of” a FA?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:20 pm
JHill, of course he’s a free agent and chose to leave. But considering Kiffin’s insistence on playing him, you’d think Kiffin would have attempted to re-sign him. That’s what I meant all along. But i didn’t say so, so you have every right to mock me. But considering McCown being a free agent, why doesn’t Kiff make a move to re-sign him?
Marley, so are you saying Kiffin has every bit as much to do with the decision not to re-sign McCown as anyone?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:20 pm
has anybody heard of another free agent QB coming in to be a possible backup for us?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Can’t totally agree. Sometimes you’re asked to stand your man up and let the LB’s fill the holes, not get plowed by TE’s and FB’s that turn 2 yard runs into 20 yard runs.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:23 pm
SaintKaufman, and anyone else, forgive me for using the phrase “release” as opposed to “re-sign”. What I meant all along was that we didn’t re-sign McCown, not release him. My bad. With all due respect, aren’t they kind of the same thing, in regards to roster building? Choosing not to re-sign someone or give them a competitive contract is essentially releasing them, isn’t it? But, hey, corrected.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Dude, MCown’s got four kids to feed. Why would Kiffin overpay a complete joke at QB to keep him as a backup..Your logic is flawed. This is Josh’s last chance to get a payday before he spends the rest of his career as a pine rider
March 1st, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Now if McCown got no takers on his shopping trip, you could bet your ass Kiff would make a reasonable offer for him to return..
March 1st, 2008 at 7:26 pm
My logic is only based on Kiffin’s outright insistence on playing him over Culpepper, Walter, and Russell. That’s it. …Flawed as it is.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:26 pm
I’m not mocking you …
I just didn’t understand your take, and thought you were just being unnecesarily negative.
Why go with the Kiffin/Al thing instead of just acknowledging that McClown might have wanted a chance to start next year despite being on good terms with Kiffin.
Why put so much stock in Kiffin’s feeling towards a BACKUP?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:26 pm
I hear you MaddenRaider.
I’m just completely burned out on the Al/Kiffin/Ryan/Lofton/Green, etc drama/conspiracies/theories/inside sources, etc.
Well, you know what I mean!
March 1st, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Madden…
I´m saying that if I´m Josh McCown and my agent tells me there will be some interest for me out there and I can get more money and a chance to compete for a starting job elsewhere, as much as I love Kiffin, I tell him… seeya coach.
Look, Kiffin handed Russell the job already, I don´t say that, Kiffin said it. Do you think Kiffin would hold back McCown if he has better options elsewehere?.
It was good business for Josh, that´s all it was, IMO.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Saintkaifman, I’m burned out on the losing! I’m watching the Kiffin/Al situation closely because I feel our only chance of us being a playoff team within the next 3 years is with Kiffin feeling like he’s at home, here. If it’s Grudengate already, and Kiffin’s going to be gone soon, then I don’t see any daylight. James Lofton? Come on.
Am I to understand you are more upset over the discussion on our head coaching situation than you are over the fact that we haven’t cracked the 5 win mark since 2002?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Hey All. Just got back from trying to get my brand new Jerry Porter Joke-sosnville Jaguar charger!!! Harris and Vance said Porter doesn’t have his number yet. I suggest the number ZERO!
You guys I like the addition by subtraction thing going on here right now. Lots of guys leaving, only Gabril coming in, and he’s got World Championship cred!! So far I am fine with that.
Ekuban played REALLY well for the Buncos prior to his injury. They were pleased with him. The biggest move the Buncos have made this off season was resigning John Lynch @ a Pay cut!!! Lynch didn’t want to do it, kind of a slap in the face to him. Shows you where they are.
San Diego has a low first rounder, and then NO 2nd OR NO 3RD ROUNDER!!!! Hope they don’t need more guys! The problem is in this league you ALWAYS need more guys!
And then kansas shi**y is well, kansas sh**ty!
March 1st, 2008 at 7:30 pm
MaddenRaider - I share most views with you and I would agree that everything is irrelevant if the coach is made irrelevant. If Kiffin doesn’t have power, then the Raiders are useless altogether however…I’m not going to discuss that all the freakin time because Its frustrating enough as it is.
For all we know, Kiffin wanted Quinn. I can’t prove that. For all we know, Kiffin liked McCown, I can’t prove that.
Personally, I think Kiffin is happy to have JR even if he wanted Quinn more. Its a give and take situtation and I’m sure Kiffin and AD explored both possibilities but I think AD was 100% JR and Kiffin was 50-50 between the 2 rookie QB’s so the choice went to JR. I think Quinn fit the system employed but you have to be excited by the abilitiies of JR and I believe they played their cards right with him.
Kiffin was unsure about the offensive line and its productiviity. With that, he needed a veteran QB that he could plug in and take a beating for the team so he could find out more about this team altogether and before he could throw JR out there. I think McCown was just a test dummy to be honest with you and I think Kiffin was seriously disappointed with his play but Culpepper wasn’t 100%, the line couldn’t protect Walter and JR wasn’t ready. McCown willingly put himself out there and Kiffin let him.
Kiffin is quick to cut people as he did with Mike Williams. If it wasn’t for the QB situation, I think McCown would have been gone a long time ago. Thats why he wasn’t resigned and McCown also got more money than the Raiders would have paid him. Kiffin knew Walter would be around as his backup this year so he was comfortable with letting McCown go.
As far as the conflict between AD and Kiffin. I can only speculate and I have my opinion but the Raiders are so damn secrective and there is nothing concrete to work off of so I don’t know what else to say. I know how AD is and its very possible that he doesn’t have a good relationship with Kiffin but what does it matter right now? I can only “hope” that this team gets turned around but why should I have to constantly fight it everyday. Lets just see what happens.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:30 pm
5 win mark > per season, is what I meant…
March 1st, 2008 at 7:32 pm
If Kiffin really wanted to keep McCown then he deserves to be fired. He obviously doesn’t know how to judge talent if he can’t see that that guy was a complete incompetent. A lot of people blame Al for the turmoil with Kiff, but when I heard that Kiffin was actually entertaining rumors of going to Arkansas, it really didn’t bother me to see him getting treated this way. Can you imagine that? SERIOUSLY ……………Can anyone on this board possibly fathom being a head coach of the coolest sports franchise in the world and being such an ingrate that you would entertain going to coach a bunch of college kids in Arkansas?
Kiffin has got a lot of learning, apologizing and growing up to do if what Jerry’s been reporting is true. And if he’s gone, it’s really not that big of a deal. There are other rumblings that the offense wasn’t overly impressed with him.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Hey guys, moment of clarity…We will field a team in 2008, and it will be a fun season to watch!! Hits from the safety position! Michael Bush debuts! Miller improves! J. Russ lasers all over…
March 1st, 2008 at 7:32 pm
SaintKaufman - Its hard to plug holes as a linebacker when you constantly have offensive lineman in your face because the defensive line couldn’t hold them back. Ya dig?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:33 pm
MaddenRaider…
Now let me ask you, if reports are true, why is Mark Jackson handling Davis´s money?.
If Kiffin is gone or soon to be gone, then Jackson is most certainly gone as well.
Hell, didn´t they say back in January when this thing came up that Jackson was removed from his office?.
Now he´s negotiating millions of dollars worth of deals?.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:35 pm
i agree with jerry to some degree. yeah those guys are decent at best and are gonna make more than decent money just cause the market was weak this year. and a lot of last years woes was because of QB play.
but there’s a problem. the position isn’t remotely thin. its “i can see through it thin” its not like we don’t have the talent (which we don’t). WE DON’T HAVE THE BODIES!!!!! and a young QB throwing to young WRs is a scary equation. the defense is coming to form from an experience stand point. you dont wanna have to wait 3-4 years for the young guys to come around on the other side of the ball.
i think they should be patient and tap into next years WR FA market. but we’re gonna end up wasting draft picks just to fill the position to get through the year if we don’t sign anyone.
you all realize that we couldnt even field a 3 WR set right now without madsen changing position. scary.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:35 pm
MaddenRaider - You may be burned out by the losing but we all are. Burning yourself out more because of the coaching situation is only going to make it worse. Its hard for everyone but constantly being negative about the whole thing isn’t going to help matters.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:35 pm
I dig Huff.
Watch the Miami game again. Get back to me…
March 1st, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Marley, are you going to address post 103? It doesn’t sound like he believes things are ok between Kiffin and Al, yet he’s on Al’s side. Come on, Marley, let him know there’s nothing going on, and that all is on the up and up…
March 1st, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Huff, I’m not burned out on the coaching situation. Speak for yourself. I feel it’s the single most important issue facing this football team.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Madden,
We replace Kiffin with Lofton and the media tears him down too!
Remember, not one word out of Davis. Everything has been “how do we sell more stories”?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:38 pm
and higgins is our #2!!!!
March 1st, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Saintkaufman, post 103, dude. Go get ‘em. He’s saying there is “turmoil”, he’s claiming the offense doesn’t like Kiffin. Sounds to me like he’s saying that things are not ok between Kiffin and Al. Only catch: He’s on Al’s side. But come on, he’s saying that there is turmoil. Set him straight, dude.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Why are you guys still babbling about McCown and Kiffin?
They are no longer Raiders.
Just Win Baby.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:41 pm
SaintKaufman - The Miami game? Didn’t they almost go 0-16? Don’t they have the #1 pick right now? What does watching the Miami game prove?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Lets not forget later season cuts, guys..
Terry Glenn, DAL
Darryl Jackson from 49ers wont fit Martz’ system
Joe Horn, ATL
Brandon Lloyd, WAS
March 1st, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Silver Blood … Black Veins Says:
March 1st, 2008 at 7:32 pm
“A lot of people blame Al for the turmoil with Kiff, but when I heard that Kiffin was actually entertaining rumors of going to Arkansas, it really didn’t bother me to see him getting treated this way.”
……….
^^^ Guys, looks like some Davis supporters are fanning the flames of “turmoil”, too. Is anyone going to address this?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Say Fire Kiffin you always say Al is God. MaddenRaider says that Davis is the bane of the franchise. Have at it.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Madden, McCown was NOT cut, he played out his contract and was a FREE AGENT. Once again, he was NOT cut.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:44 pm
PAtrick, little late the party, eh, bud
March 1st, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Patrick, I already addressed that error on my part, and rephrased my question. But thanks for effort.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Ronnie Brown ran and caught all over the place and the LB’s and safeties could’nt contain him or make a tackle.
We are sorely missing a big MLB.
You know I don’t give the DL a pass, they were bad. But if the LB’s and safeties could have frickin tackled SOMEBODY we could have contained on 3rd downs. How many RB’s caught 3 yard passes and turned them for big gains last year.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:45 pm
we always got the draft to address the wr position, berrian is just another porter. plus we saved money to sign the fourth overall pick (if we keep it), and just in case we make a possible trade, perhaps for ocho cinco? just playing
March 1st, 2008 at 7:46 pm
You guys wouldn’t be trying to avoid my McCown question via hanging me up on my misuse of terminology, would ya? Nah. LOL.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:46 pm
MaddenRaider - I completely agree that the coaching situation is the most important but can you honestly prove with credibility that Kiffin is on his way out and that power has been stripped from him? I wouldn’t doubt it being true but where’s the “proof”. Nothing is fact until it happens at this point.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Huff, then address post 103!!!
Why do you guys only accuse me of rehashing unproven rumors, when a Davis supporter is saying everything that I said in post 103, only exception being that he’s cool with Kiffin being neutered.
Come on, man. Go full circle.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:50 pm
SaintKaufman - Why should the safeties be required to tackle as often as they should? They’re safeties. If the defensive line and the linebackers can’t even stop the run, how can you expect the safeties to?
We drafted Schweigert because he was a ball hawk in college. We drafted Huff because of his cover skills and playmaking ability. We drafted Morrison and Howard for their speed. We forgot to cover the tackling ability with their resumes.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Landon Johnson, anyone? We need a straight up run stuffer LB. The Firm will handle the rest..
March 1st, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Basically, I can say everything that I just said about Kiffin losing whatever power he had, and all I have to do is end it by saying, “Good. He deserves it. That’s what he gets for crossing Lord Al”, and you guys would let it alone!
March 1st, 2008 at 7:51 pm
You guys we’ve been over this a BILLION effing times. I am SURE a power struggle erupted between Kiff and some of the other inside people. It happens all the time!!! Look at Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson, Steinbrenner and Torre, York McCloughan and Mike Nolan, Shittenhoimer and AJ Smith. These things happen constantly on both winning and losing teams. I am SURE Kiff told Davis to fire him and Davis told Kiff to resign. Davis ain’t gonna fire him, Kiff ain’t gonna resign. Back to work on Monday. These things happen. End of story.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:53 pm
MaddenRaider - I found your posts more relevant I guess? Consider that a positive on your part.
Silver Blood … Black Veins - There is no proof that Kiffin wanted to go to Arkansas. That is only speculation at this point and its another thing that shouldn’t be rehashed.
Does this address the comment made?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:53 pm
…as Jerry titled the thread:
“NOT WORTH IT”
LOL!
Goodnight, everyone. George Carlin’s on HBO right now. I’m going to try and catch the end of it.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Just finished watching the Miami game. We won going away.
Brown had a 134 yards of which 60 came on one play.
Anything in particular I was supposed to be looking for?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:54 pm
In running situations the safeties are always cheating trying to get to the line. In our case, they get to the line just fine, then it all goes wrong!!
March 1st, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Oakglenn - thanks for being the voice of reason in here. People would rather go around and around about the same ol’ SH—. This is big boy stuff, not freaking General Hospital. IF Kiffin’s guy is signing the checks for personell on D, good enough gor me. Get over it..
March 1st, 2008 at 7:55 pm
See ya MaddenRaider.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:55 pm
MaddenRaider…
On post 103..
I believe I have just said what I think about it and I did it to answer your specific question. I don´t agree with him nor with you.
If you wanna know why I don´t say anything to him, it´s because he did not ask for my opinion as you just did.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:56 pm
In running situations, Rob Ryan calls a play that allows the defense to part like the red sea and allow any running back with no name to run down the middle with no contact. Maybe offenses we play against have a play called Moses?
March 1st, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Madden
McCown was not cut…. He became an UFA at end of season. We are not going to pay 6 million for JM (2.5 million in GR) with JR and AW under contract. You are as bad as Nancy Gay for crine out loud - why distort the truth when the truth is interesting enough as it is.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:58 pm
I think I heard the horse whimper a little…naw…it’s dead..
March 1st, 2008 at 7:59 pm
MaddenRaider
What about post 106?.
Are you gonna address that one? It was a direct question.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Huff
Here is a question: Is the defense against the run bad because Kelly, Sands, Sapp Warren, Burgess and Richardson could not hold the point of attack or because Ryan had stupid schemes whould not make adjustments and we had bad saftey play especially at SS? I vote for the latter although it would be nice to upgrade our DT situation especially with Sapp leaving.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Now that’s funny.
I can hear Morrison now…
Moses, Moses, Moses!!!
Of course Stuart does’nt hear the call and gets in perfect position to….
miss the tackle!!
March 1st, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Here…in case you ”missed it”…
MaddenRaider…
Now let me ask you, if reports are true, why is Mark Jackson handling Davis´s money?.
If Kiffin is gone or soon to be gone, then Jackson is most certainly gone as well.
Hell, didn´t they say back in January when this thing came up that Jackson was removed from his office?.
Now he´s negotiating millions of dollars worth of deals?.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Another hole in the saga Marley. Good job!
March 1st, 2008 at 8:02 pm
SaintKaufman - Thats hella funny. Maybe thats why we didn’t keep Quentin “Moses”? Hah.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:04 pm
What says you guys about Jason Taylor?
Any truth to him moving out of Miami?
March 1st, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Bada Boom!
March 1st, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Looks like Chris Clemmons has signed with the Eagles. Too bad the Raiders couldn’t keep him. But Miami is apparently also cutting its ties to Jason Taylor.
Jerry, do you know if Oakland is interested, since this doesn’t exactly come as a shock? I realize the Trace Armstrong comparisons. But still, Burgess and Taylor at DE’s sounds worth the risk to me …
March 1st, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Marly
I want to address post 106 for Madden… What happened was a clone was replaced for Mark Jackson similar to what happened with Paul McCartney and the Beatles. See it really is not Mark Jackson at all handling the money.
What I just posted makes about as much sense as a lot of the gossip garbage we have been subjected to over the last month… Great post Marley!
March 1st, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Are’nt we supposed to be laughing about this in 10 years, not now??
March 1st, 2008 at 8:06 pm
And why on earth isn´t the local media asking the same question?.
I mean…
Kiffin not wearing a Raiders shirt in an event where most coaches didn´t wear any team gear either is somehow news and confirmation that hell is coming?.
But having Lane Kiffin´s hand picked administrative guy handling contracts worth millions and working closely with Davis who must approved them, somehow goes unnoticed?.
Come on.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Wasn’t this just the same old stirring up sh**? I thought I set the stage for a battle royale between MR and FK at #119. It’s such a shame they’re the same person.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Marley - Negotiating defensive deal no less…That’s Ryan and Al’s grounds…
I’m no longer smelling the stench of disdain in Ala…
March 1st, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Kaufman…Didn’t Miami have a worse run D than us last year? I dunno, thinking guy is almost done.. He’ll want to cash in on his last contract as well.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:10 pm
So it looks like the best receiver on our team will be the TE (Miller) Hey, if San Diego can get away with it, why can’t we?
March 1st, 2008 at 8:10 pm
We got rid of Clemons to get the Freak…
March 1st, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Sith, you’ll see out WR’s perform better under Lofton. You’ll see cripser patterns, more effort. Especially with Porter gone.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Marly
Great point about how the media fixates on things like choices in clothing to try to build a case. It reminds me how people would look through telescopes and become convinced there was civiilazation on Mars and take shapes and patterns and turn them into designed buildings etc… When we got better telescopes it all fell apart. By the way did anyone observe what Kiff was wearing today? LOL
March 1st, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Sith - A two TE set doesn’t really make me mad…Madsen and miller run cross routes through the middle…I could see us being a run heavy, dump off team for another year. If we could score one more TD per game, we’re legit. Remember, our D kept us from a decent season. was it five or six 4th Q leads blown???
March 1st, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Is WR Kelley Washington worth a look?
March 1st, 2008 at 8:13 pm
I was thinking the same thing but guess what the biggest difference was in their run D? Zach Thomas!! That’s right, a MLB. When he played they were totally different against the run.
Taylor has been a mega producer the last 7-8 years. Definately not Trace Armstrong.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Tripen
Maimi gave up more total yards but we gave up more yards per carry and gave up more TDs rushing. Teams ran more on Maimi this year for the same reason people ran on Oakland they year before…. The offense was so bad why pass…
March 1st, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Yeah, im happy we have Lofton on our side now. Maybe he can turn things around for Johnnie Lee Higgins like he did Vincent Jackson.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:14 pm
1960 - The more the media nonchalantly uses these obscure references, the easier it is to buy into their speculative scenarios…The biggest spin artists out there are our own local reporters..ahhem jerry *cough*
I bet Under Armor payed good dough to get those guys to rock that WP gear..
March 1st, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Bob, you already know this. The Raiders HUMILIATE these media people and they do try to extract revenge. They do. There’s no denying it. It’s not a crazy vast conspiracy but it does happen. I think over the last couple of months the Raiders and the Nation have been very vulnerable, but we’ve fought all comers and right now I think there’s a bit of quiet strength going on inside and outside the organization. And we all deserve a tiny bit of credit for that. All of us.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Yeah, 2 TE set would be intresting, I like Madsen too. Man, I thought we had the Colts beat.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Dogg- NE locked him up..He;’s a ST stud, extra bonus..guess gaffney is still floating out there..
1960 - Good point. I really like Taylor as far as his ethics..Wouldn’t mind it. Maybe he could kick Sands in his fat ass..
March 1st, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Al Davis loves screwing with the media..Anyone see him diss Schefter at the HOF ceremony for Madden? LOL
“What do you want Adam? You know you don’t work for the Broncos anymore…”
March 1st, 2008 at 8:18 pm
1960AW - I believe there are alot of things wrong with our defense. We rush only 4 way too often. We man Huff on the TE. We play man on the corners. Everyone knows this and it happens too reguarly. If we know this as fans watching the game, imagine how easy it must be for professional teams to watch film on us. I don’t see us do much more than that. We blitz once and awhile and we normally get caught with a big play against us. We rush 4, drop our linebackers into zones, man 2 man with SS and CB’s and play the FS deep. In that regard, I believe our defensive is too predictable in how they call a game and that falls squarely on the coach not being creative enough with his schemes.
On the players. Burgess is a very good pass rusher but teams hardly pass on us and he gets run over on the strong side where the TE normally plays. Sands is HUGE but he gets stood up too easily as he doesn’t play low enough or he isn’t that strong. Warren is a great player for our system because hes solid against the pass as well as the run and he has good size but he takes plays off and hes injury prone. Kelly plays too small in the middle and gets pushed too easily and hes too slow at DE as a pass rusher while more solid against the run.
Richardson is similiar to Kelly. He’s solid against the run but not fast enough against the pass. Clemons was too small and only good against the pass. Sapp was too light against the run and great against the pass but teams run on us about 75% of the time. Brayton had a motor with little productivity.
Rob Ryan’s scheme relies on the front 4 because he rushes only 4 90% of the time. That means the defense must be hybrid. They need to be able to get to the passer but also be capable of stopping the run so they need to have size with speed. Have you noticed that we don’t have any players except for Warren who are built for this?
Our linebackers are fast and great in coverage but small so they can overtaken by offensive lineman very easily. Schweigert was supposed to be a ball hawk. Huff is lean and a great cover safety. Our corners have their backs to the line of scrimmage because they play man to man. In a league built to run, we built our defense from the roof down. We didn’t focus enough on stopping the run and we put a very simple scheme in place. For the type of defense we run, speed is a necessity but no size was involved so we struggle against the run in a division where running is the priority and that is why we struggle. We’re too built on stopping the pass in a division that doesn’t care.
Thats our problem.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Sith,
I sure hope you’re right about JLH. I can’t help but remember Curry’s rookie year, where he looked completely out of place and he singlehandedly lost a game with a fumbled kickoff return.
JLH did the same types of things this year, so who knows?
March 1st, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Oakglenn - Saying that FK is MR is just as bad as continuously bringing up the coaching situation. Once again…there is no proof to either one. This whole troll thing is ridiculous as well since we can only speculate who is who but you’re just as guilty by constantly calling people out.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Ok, that´s it for me, nice talk today.
Have a good night gentlemen.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:22 pm
True Gordo, I remember back in 85 a guy named Rice made a lot of rookie mistakes. I could only hope Higgins can be half the WR Rice was, maybe James Lofton will be able to turn him into a better WR.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Huff - Thanks for such an in depth breakdown of your thoughts..Very good..
March 1st, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Hey MaddenRaider - I’m not unconditionally supporting Al Davis or the way he handles things by any stretch of the imagination. Al is a legend in the football world and has made immense contributions to the game, but he has also made a lot of mistakes, some of them very big, and some of them very obvious. For a number of reasons, he’s despised by the N.F.L. establishment ( or at least feared ) and their media acolytes ( the huge number of A** K*****s that pose as a free press). Huff 24 is right in that the Arkansas rumors are unsubstantiated. Our own Jerry McDonald reported that it was true just recently, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that was a mistake. Despite the media overreaction it definitely appears from Kiffins’ comments and from the front office that there are some problems and that they are possibly significant.
I really just wanted to comment on the fact that I don’t think losing Kiffin is that big of a deal. I really don’t think he exhibited any realy talent as a head coach once the season began. He did great in preseason and during camp, but after that….Nada. Hopefully if he stays with us he’ll get better. To be fair his playcalling did improve a little at the end of the season. I was really just surprised about all of the comments on McCown. He’s gone now and we’re better off for it. Let’s get busy fixing our lines and getting a receiver. The sleeper sites have some interesting prospects, and the Raiders have eyes all over the country so I’m expecting good things from this draft.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:25 pm
I agree with Jerry. Berrian is basically a one-dimensional deep threat and Stallworth is often injured. Neither is an elite guy.
Still, we need to do something at the WR position. Bryant Johnson has been my favorite guy on the market all along anyway. Hopefully the Raiders bring him in.
Here are some of the top FA WRs left:
– Bryant Johnson: Big and athletic (6-3, 216). Kind of a poor man’s T.O. Could be a great pickup. He was drafted in the 1st round the same year the Cards picked Anquan Boldin in Round 2. Has been overshadowed by Boldin and Fitzgerald, but looks much improved from early on. My guess is he’d get something in the neighborhood of what Porter just signed for. I think he’s the best buy of this bunch.
– DJ Hackett: Emerged as Seattle’s best receiver the last couple of seasons. Nice player, but not quite the speed threat the Raiders could really use. Banged up last year but looks like a real good player.
– Javon Walker: Great talent but often injured. Seems like a bit of a pain. Will probably get pretty good $$$ somewhere. Risky.
– Eddie Kennison: Could be a nice veteran pickup if he comes cheap. Has quietly had a good career in KC. Anything left in the tank?
– Drew Carter: Has some big play potential. If he comes cheap he could be a steal and fill a real need.
– Brandon Lloyd: Athletic but seems to always underperform and cause problems. Inconsistent hands.
– Samie Parker: Not a starter but he’s got some speed. I really thought he was going to emerge in KC a couple of years ago but seems to have regressed. Could be a decent No. 3 or No. 4. Sadly, he’s probably better than anything we have on the roster outside of Curry at this point. I wouldn’t mind seeing him in the Raiders mix.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:25 pm
JLH has been compared to Rice, physically and speed wise…Lets hope there;s some truth to that…
March 1st, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Madden,..you are the one I usually side with in here,..and I took a cred hit when a decent free agent visitted, then signed with us,..however this biz you keep hammering home about McCown has me puzzled,…do you attend games?..Im in 127,..all games,…let me say this, up close Josh is a bum,..period,…why you pine over him I have no idea,…and another thing,…I am not convinced there is or ever was a clash with Davis and Kiffin,…were you in the room?…you believe the media?..I dont,…so far everything the media, espn, has said about us has turned up false…until I see Kiffin or Al come out and say they hate each other I will assume they are ok…Madden,..dont believe the media, and forget about Josh.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Huff great assessment of the d. We are built to stop the pass in a division that doesn’t really pass to well, but runs the hell out of the ball.
That being said if the offense matures and the Raiders play with the lead instead of behind, the defense could be solid sort of like the Colts. I know they run the cover 2 but they are built similar despite Kiffin’s assessment of why they are so good.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Huff
Very good analysis! A good coach/coordinator adapts his scheme to the personal he has. Ryan does not do this. He trys to take square pegs and put them in round holes. Classic case in point when he tried to use Brayton as a linebacker to make the 3-4 work. I remember a comment in the late 90’s when Gruden had a QB situation and adjusted the whole offense to the QB and it was managable and effective. A joke was made by one of the anoncuners essentially saying could the previous coach of done that - ha ha ha… Thats how I feel about Ryan. I feel like he either is or among the dumbest coordinators in the league.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Chris - We’ll get our B. Johnson in James Hardy, IMO…
DJ Hackett, maybe…Joe Horn, Terry Glenn will be available soon enough..
I seriously just don’t know at this point
March 1st, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Run first and TEs underneath: It still helps to have a deep threat WR who can clear things out. The WR who draws double-coverage is as good (or better) than one who blocks. And for anyone who can get open deep, the Kid has the gift.
So– You know AD isn’t shy. Has he proposed numbers to Randy Moss’s agent yet? Or is he still figuring how much he would have to pay to lengthen Chad Johnson’s contract in a trade?
March 1st, 2008 at 8:33 pm
1960AW - Agreed.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Whats up with Kwame Harris? did he ever sign?
What about Shane Olivea?
March 1st, 2008 at 8:33 pm
G - I agree at this point..
Was thinking about something. Berrian was never known for his hands..I think you could put a parapalegic kenyan out there, and as long as he could beat the CB’s at the LOS, DC’s would have to account for him…Maybe a late round, 40 yd. dash champ would be sufficient..
March 1st, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Scrub that last one…James Jett sucked..
March 1st, 2008 at 8:37 pm
GRaider, there’s a better chance of James Jett returning in 08 than Randy Moss. Let’s get serious.
I was hoping the Raiders would pull a trade for Chad Johnson. Kind of forgot about that with all the talk he was going to DC and then all the reports he wasn’t going anywhere and then all the silence about him. That would be a huge benefit to the offense since he’s one of the top-5 WRs in the league and can go deep.
If the Raiders could ever maneuver a trade of their first pick for the Cowboys two first rounders I think it’d be excellent. One of those 1st round picks could definitely be enough to snag ocho-cinco.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:38 pm
We’re probably working on the most expensive offensive lineman contract with Kwame Harris. Thats what we do.
March 1st, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Lane Kiffin may have been here representing the Raiders as their head coach, but I say it’s no better than 50-50 that he’ll coach Oakland this fall. Trust me on this one, Raider Nation. I’m not trying to stoke t