All starters will sit
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Friday, August 29th, 2008 at 3:53 pm in Oakland Raiders.
Get ready for a lot of Mauricio Lopez, Brandon Rodd, Marviel Underwood, Nick Sanchez and Michael Waddell.
Throw in some Andrew Walter with a dash of Greyson Gunheim, a sprinkling of Chris Wagner and a shake or two of former Washington Huskies Louis Rankin and Marcel Reece.
Those are your Oakland Raiders tonight against the Seattle Seahawks.
The word at the Seattle Waterfront Marriott before the team departs for nearby Qwest Field is that coach Lane Kiffin will sit all 22 starters on offense and defense.
Here’s the risky part _ Darren McFadden and Michael Bush will play and while they’ll get enough work to aid in their development, they’ll also be risking injury behind backup linemen and Seattle reserves desperate to be included on the 53-man roster.
The target for McFadden is eight carries, with Bush getting somewhere in the neighborood of 14.
Not that Kiffin is asking, but I can’t say I’m on board with McFadden in particular getting that much work.
The reason the starters aren’t playing is Kiffin was essentially scared straight with regard to preseason football after the season-ending knee injuries sustained by Oren O’Neal and Drew Carter.
If he is that concerned about losing another starter, he ought to be terrified about the possibility of losing McFadden.
With the possible exception of Javon Walker, provided last week’s performance served as notice he may regain his form, the Raiders have exactly one player on offense with touchdown-on-any-snap capability.
That player is McFadden, and it makes him the skill position player they can least afford to lose, the one player opponents will need to account for on every snap.
The Raiders have been closely guarding the way they’ll use McFadden, running him mostly between the tackles during the preseason.
Chances are it will end well. Eight carries, then get ready for the Broncos.
What’s the worst that could happen?
[You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.]
August 29th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
eyah suck it
August 29th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
1st and only time sorry !!
August 29th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Whoa Jerry …The word “scared” is a little much don’t you think? Quite frankly its not worth it esp considering our lack of depth. I have no quarrels with this move whatsoever.
DMC probably won’t even get that many carries. Bush will likely work most of the 1st two Qs with the camp fodder wrapping up the 2H.
August 29th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
dont play dmac
August 29th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
blown acl , torn PCL, cart damage.. thats the worst that could happen
August 29th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
why do I have pimples..Im 30 years old!!…go raiders
August 29th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Ol’ E 800 yeah thats my brand, i’ll take from a bottler, 40oz, quart, or can.
Drink it like a mad man, yes I do.
So fu(k the police and a 502.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Do you really want me to tell you?
Nahh, just watch!
August 29th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
I doubt if Seattle plays its starters either. Too many big time injuries last week around the league.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Oakglenn, final warning. If it isn’t you, better check your homies. One more, and I’m going back under Oakglenn.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Too late Monkey.
We know who you are.
And We know WHERE you breathe.
Does anyone have a message they would like me to personally convey to this sad, washed up hack?
August 29th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Monkey, you are in NO POSITION to be warning anyone.
Don’t bother responding.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
(Yawning)
August 29th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
yeah, i think i’d sit DMac too. i can just see some scrub linebacker taking his knees out. Yikes
August 29th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Thats’ why I’ve been calling this the “Boring Bowl” for a couple of years now, Jerry. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems like we always play Seattle in the pre season, at their stadium. Just the thought of it sounds boring. We should just play 4 games vs. the whiners. Two there, two here. That’s probably the only ticket fans would be willing to pay full price for.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
I don’t understand Kiffin. He’s not going to show anything anyway with Dmac, why play him with your admittedly below avg scrubs?
August 29th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
No worries Oakglenn we got ya back baby
August 29th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
You were warned, Oakglenn. Even if it isn’t you, you know everyone here and that’s what you get for being the big man on campus. Find out who it is and check their ass. Or, stop doing it yourself. Whatever the case.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
BENCH McFADDEN!!!
August 29th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Eagles vs Jets just came on on NFLN …nothin’ but backups starting …scared huh Jerry? I guess Andy Reed and Mangini are scared too …4th preseason game is a backups game.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Bring on the donkeys!!!
August 29th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Seattle fans who paid full price for this game should hold a sit-in on the playing field until they are all given refund vouchers. Hey, don’t laugh. It worked for the Berkeley tree-sitters.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
The nice folks in Seattle, get to pay list price, to watch a bunch of future, frozen turkey stockers at Costco.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
I’m sure many of you have seen parts of, or all of, the series “Hard Knocks,” on HBO about training camp for the cowgirls. Anyway, after watching a segment, I’ve come to realize that Tony Rome is an OK quarterback, nothing special and I say that because the guy has “all-the-freaking-time-in-the-world-to-pass.”
If Russell had an offensive line like Dallas, he would be off the charts. Cowgirl Rome, is taking 5 and 7 steps back and then sitting in this huge pocket until the receivers are open, be it 4 to 7 seconds after the snap. It’s crazy. Poor Russell has about 1 1/2 to 2 seconds at best, to get if off or dump, because he’s going to get slammed big time if he doesn’t.
Talk about envy. Russell has to envy the time that Romo
gets to pass. If we ever get an offensive line like Dallas, we’ll be unstopable. We be going 19 and 0 every year, plus the Super Bowl.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Monkey, pick on Oakglenn all you want.
He’s about your speed.
3 - 13.
Kiffin is simply RUNNING OUT THE CLOCK.
Don’t bother responding.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Tex Guy, back to your point on the previous thread; Ok. Let me start over.
I believe Al Davis’s top priority, besides obviously staying financially solvent, is winning. Nothing else. In that regard, he should hire the best coach for the job, period. Pay him whatever he has to. Give him the contract he wants. I don’t believe Al Davis is doing any good for himself, the team, or the fans when instead he decides to give someone some sort of opportunity, not even knowing for sure that he can coach.
Now, assuming that Davis did find in his interview with Kiffin that Kiffin knows his stuff and can lead a team, then he should give Kiffin whatever he wants…so long as it’s reasonable and doesn’t tank the franchise. If Kiffin wants to fire Ryan? Bye, Rob. If he’s not granted this, then it’s obvious to me his expertise is not trusted. Which brings me back to my question as to why he’s here, when the top priority is winning?
Don’t compare the Raiders to other teams. I don’t care that Jerry Jones is the same way. The New York Giants are the Super Bowl champions. Our goal should be to be BETTER than them. And either a) hiring a head coach who we’re uncertain of, or b) hiring a coach we’re certain of but pulling power trips on him and playing games with him is not going to get us there. And if Al’s goal is not to get there, he should retire. There should be no goal bigger than winning, outside of the obvious obligation of remaining financially in tact.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Oakglenn:
Huh?
August 29th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
It’s me, Riverside. MR. I warned him to stop posting under my name. He won’t stop. So you guys can get used to Oakglenn, or at least a lot of Oakglenns, being me. I’ve got nothing to hide. I’ll tell you when it’s me, everytime.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Oakglen post I rest my case!!!That is IT BABY THATS IT.IT WILL NEVER CLEARER THANK-YOU OAKGLEN
August 29th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
post 26 26 26
August 29th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
MR:
Thanks for the heads-up. Also, have a good labor day weekend because tonights game isn’t going to be anything
special to watch. I’m surely not going to record it.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Bring the donks… then we will know where we are standing…
RAIDERS 21-SEAHAWKS 13
GO RAIDERS!
August 29th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
it will never BE clearer sorry
August 29th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
What exactly is the point of tonight game except to make money?
August 29th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
No problem, Riverside. Enjoy your weekend, too. And, I agree, I’m getting sick of the Raiders/Seahawk Boring Bowl every August, as well. We should just play the whiners 4 times. That would make the face value of the ticket worthwhile. People can just watch the fights in the stands, if anything.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
MR AKA the pretend Oakglenn,
I agree with most of our last post, except Al is not going to give an unproven coach absolutely everything that he desires. (Or else we might end up at the B&B hashing up decades old offensive plans).
Kiffin did want to fire RR, but Al wouldn’t allow it because for some reason, Al loves him.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Tex Guy, I’m not pretending to be anyone. I’m posting under his name because he refuses to stop posting under mine. You’ll know it’s me. I’ll tell you. I’m doing it in protest.
Regarding, Kiffin/Al, what do you mean “unproven”? Either Kiffin convinced Al Davis that he’s capable of doing this job, and should therefore be given pretty much whatever he wants so long as it’s reasonable (and firing Rob Ryan is as reasonable as anything under the sun), or Kiffin did not convince Al he’s a good coach. We need a proven coach, now. Not proven with results, but proven as to him demonstrating he knows the game, and being vouched for by people who know the game, not to mention him having the charisma to lead.
Why is Al’s goal to train on the job? His goal should be to win. What does he think he’s running, a school? This is the NFL, Tex Guy. It’s a professional organization, where the Raiders are one of the worst teams in the league for 5 years running. We don’t have time to run a school. Either Kiffin is the real deal and should be paid and treated like it, or fire him now and give someone who is the real deal whatever in god’s name they want.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
4 o’clock is just way too late, for me, to justifying watching a pre-season game..
August 29th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
4 o’clock AM that is..
August 29th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Oakglenn Says:
August 29th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Tex Guy, I’m not pretending to be anyone. I’m posting under his name because he refuses to stop posting under mine. You’ll know it’s me. I’ll tell you. I’m doing it in protest.
______________________________________________________
what is it now, you used to preach? do you think it helps stooping to such low levels as your counterpart?
August 29th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
he what time the game starts?
August 29th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
LMN, what other options do I have? I post as “MR”, and I have to answer to all the bulls’t that he posts under my name. I have as much right to comment here as any of you. Sometimes stooping to someone’s level is necessary. This is one of those times. And, again, I’m not posting under his name for the reasons he’s posting under mine, to discredit him, whatever. I’m basically announcing that it’s me. I’m just trying to get him used to the fact that every time I see someone posting under “MR”, I’m posting as him in return. At some point, he’ll get it.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
*hey
August 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Drink R..
10 ET
August 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
7pm, pacific
August 29th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
or, 10 et.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Oakglenn: By “proven Coach” do you mean Norv Turner?
Give the kid a chance.
Ryan thru last year for a high DP.
The year b-4 was thrown by Art Shell for Russell.
How else could we have had a shot at being competetive by 2010 when the Lease runs out at the Black Hole?
Al’s going to want that team in the play offs so he can move again.
Read it at raider nation station and I don’t care hwat people say, this guys pretty good. he’s no Jerry! But he’s onto some stuff thats why I go there.
C’mon Raiders!!!
August 29th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
This game is going to be in a fierce ratings battle with ET and Jeopardy.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
4eva
sup bro 2 hours till game time… Its scrubs but there our scrubs so I’m watching
August 29th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Oakglenn..
nobody talks about your right to post.. but if you stick to your own nick and didn’t change it for several certain reasons, you would have less of a problem..
I of course understand when you have to change your nick to the ‘REAL oakglenn’ and such, but the other nicks changes you constantly does, is just beyond me..
August 29th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Nnamdi, got a url to RaiderNationStation? I’ll try google. God knows I’m getting sick of this place.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
has anyone been on espn and seen they rated fans for the NFL? they put the cheaters ahead of us. what a joke.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
yoyoyoyo!! what up LMN whats popping over there in 3D
August 29th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Oakglenn: Pearls before the swine. This idiots yankin’ your chain.
if you want to engage that certainly is your perogative, but it just makes you look weak for falling for his puppet routine.
How bout we talk football instead?
Shields is known for being dinged and inexperienced. watkins has failed to make a team as a starter, still i’m going Watkins to make the squad.
Can you belive they gave Vikes lineman Mckinney a 4 game suspension for a bar fight when Marshall’s been arrested 3 times in one year?
Granted his paid off girlfreind dropped the charges for his alleged assault, but he goes to court for a DUI on Sept. 16th.
Goodell’s a frikkin’ joke.
I hope Walter looks good…
August 29th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
LMN, I’m not OAkglenn. I’m “MR”. I’m posting under Oakglenn’s name because I know he’s the f’n a hole who’s posting under mine. Even if it’s not him, since his goal in life is to be the big man on campus in here, and since he obviously knows so many people in here personally, I figure I’ll leave it up to him to find out who’s doing it, and let him handle it. But I know it’s him. He knows it’s him, too.
August 29th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
the milk will be flowing tonight baby!!!!!
August 29th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
LMN
What are you gonna do when we play the donkeys then?
JK I know your a hardcore Raider fan I suggest a nap on 09/08/08 and lots of beer
August 29th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Sure OG:
http://www.raidernationstation.com
August 29th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
lol it gets personal in here i see
August 29th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
MR aka not pretending to be Oakglenn just posting under his name,
Now you are twisting up my words. I am sorry to tell you, but 4-12 in the NFL is not a proven coach. I am a Lane Kiffin supporter (unlike others in this blog), but unfortunately, until you win, you are not a proven coach. Also unforunately, most proven coaches will not come here due to Al having his way. He is not trying to train Kiffin, he just thinks that Kiffin can lead this team to win, which is why he is stickeing with him. Whether they like each other or not, and despite thier disputes (real or imagined), Al thinks that Kiffin can win, which is why he is still here
By the way, can you imagine someone like Bill Parcells, or Bill Cowher coming here? Proven coaches will not come here due to Al Davis, because he rarely give full control to anyone.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Namdi, I like what I’m reading at RaiderNationStation.com. This guy seems to be up my alley. Thanks for the heads up.
- MR
August 29th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
TexGuy, then Al should fire Kiffin. If he doesn’t thoroughly believe that Kiffin is for real, he should fire him. We don’t have time to test people.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Eddie Royal is the real deal, but w/o Marshall and with our coverage…who knows.
Either we put up points and make the Broncs abandon the run or they run all over us par usual.
Have to say, Jay Cutler is a very good QB.
Their O line is a big question mark though. Joke on Dallas for giving up a 2010 5th round pick for Montrae Holland. Showed up so fat and out of shape the line starved Broncos wouldn’t even let him practice. Shansvestite alluded to the 6-2 Holland weighing “20-25 lbs over” meaning the fatso was tipping the scale around 350+.
Oakland better watch out for Clady. he’s a cheap shottin’ Mo ‘fo. Seen him do it at least TWICE this pre season.
Ask Chris Canty.
On the first play from scrimmage against Dallas, Clady illegally dove at his knees and ankles while they weren’t even engaged.
Cheap.
I hope they get some frikkin pay back from our ZBS…
August 29th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Cool OG.
Not bad…
August 29th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Shansvestite - Classic. lol
August 29th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Going to be a llooong, 9 days, 2 hours, 10 minutes and 20 seconds. Until Rat season opens.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
They shouldn’t have even taken McFadden to Seattle. It’s way too risky to let him on the field. Didn’t they learn from last week?
August 29th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Whats up Riverside,
Hows everything with ya..
Why anyone wouldnt watch this game for FREE is amazing to me. We will get a good look at a lot of the guys that will play a key role for this team…especially at WR. I am very interested to see what Schilens, Watkins, and Shields (if he plays) can do. We will probably see JLH as our starting Flanker with Schilens or Watkins at the Split-end position. I am expecting these guys to play a significant a role for us at some point during the year.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
pregame fix!!
http://www.560ksfo.com
August 29th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
That’s what I’m thinking too post #68. That is the sole reason I’m watching this game. To see our WRs.
Though I have to say, charging full price for a ticket to a preaseason game where none of the starters are playing is a bit of a rip off. Preseason should be half price at the most.
I’m not bragging, but luckily I live in SoCal so I get to see the games on TV for free on KTLA 5.
Anyway, I’m excited also because after this game all I have to look forward to is THE FREAKING SEASON OPENER AGAINST THE DONKS! FREAKIN EH! Someone beer me please!
GO RAIDERS!
August 29th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
schilens will make the team and have a impact for our team mark my words,watkins i like him he has a fire like a steve smith id like to see more of him. shields? man dont mention this guy the jury has been out on him b4 he even was drafted, he is a walking injury man lol no durabiity i just dont see him making it
August 29th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Andrews Mom
I’m looking 4 your boy to have a big game tonight!!!
August 29th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
same here i will be watching on channel 5
August 29th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
MR, aka not pretending to be Oakglenn just posting under his name,
Thanks for discussing football instead of the usual garbage that comes out of this blog.
Gotta go now, won’t be able to watch the game out here, but I will read about it tomorrow. See y’all later.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
408..
re 57, yeah, the denver game, I think I’m lucky to be at work, so I’ll see it there, if not, i’m probably up anyhow and enjoying some jay’s.. =)
todays game, if i’m up, I might see the 1st quarter =)
August 29th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
cant wait to see the game!!
August 29th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
is it on yet
August 29th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
92 minutes and counting…
August 29th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
408…
How ya doin??
Andrews mom, had better hope that “Super” Mario, doesn’t get her boy splattered..
August 29th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
lol… super mario needs to eat a mushroom before the game…
August 29th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
If, Mc Fadden somehow gets dinged, or heaven forbid, injured. Kiff had best just keep headed North, all the way to the Artic Circle.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Andrews Mom
I’m looking 4 your boy to have a big game tonight!!!
909
Downing some beers listening 2 the pregame fix & waiting for this game to start
August 29th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Hell i would just keep Mcfadden in street clothes
August 29th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
I am so stoked about Arman Shields!!
I hope Walter has a good game so we can see some of Shields speed.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Chad Johnson changed his name to Chad Javon Ocho Cinco. lol… And the NFL is looking into it according to PFT… I wonder if he’ll have it on the back of his jersey come the regular season… or if the NFL will allow it. I don’t know how much say they may have on it if it’s a legal name change though…
August 29th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
for all you IPA lovers
racer 5
excellent beer! 7% ALC by vol
August 29th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Sup 408 raider11680 909raiderlifer LMN!
I know its not going to be our starters but I am going to watch with enthusiasm at some positions.
WR will be interesting the secondary might hold up pretty well too.
The run D is going to be horrible tonight and you know the Sea-Chickens are going to run on us.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
LMN
Robert Thomas gave your boy Branch mad respect on the pregame fix!!
August 29th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
[...] Read more. Posted in Blog, Oakland Raiders | [...]
August 29th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
666 sup bro
you listening 2 the pregame fix?
August 29th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
408….
Same here, bro.. Except no radio fix.. (My OLD piece of cr@p computer)..May be getting a ” newer” old computer this weekend(:
August 29th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
408:
Andrew will look like a pro bowl QB tonight
WOOOOHOOOOO go Raiders
August 29th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
where’s Thec?
August 29th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
NO I am not because my Fantasy draft starts in 40 minutes and I need to prepare.
But I will turn it on now.
Thanks for reminding me!!
August 29th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
This one time…..at Fantasy Football camp…..
August 29th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
#83 - Kevin, yeah, me too. I saw Ki Jana Carter’s first preseason game on TV.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Hey, triple6..
Looking to see, who stands out. And impresses..
August 29th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
sup SnB666…
yea, I know about our run d tonight… If anything, I’m hoping to see improvement in our backups on both sides of the line.
I’m also kind of interested to see how Walter will do. Granted the poor guy can never catch a break and always seems to get stuck playing with backups. But he’s also playing against backups, so hopefully it’ll be a wash… hopefully.
But yea, the things I want to watch the most are our WRs and Rankin and Lawton. I know Rankin probably won’t make the team, but I still like to see if he can keep up the decent play. Lawton however, is pretty likely going to be backing up Griffith, so I’m hoping to see something promising out of him.
You know what else, I think we might see some Bush action at FB, and if they put McF in at RB at the same time, that would be something good to watch.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
909
yep my lap top power thing took a crap so im on this old ass mac every time I refresh or submit a comment my fix skips
Andrews Mom I have faith in your boy I hope he owns tonight!
August 29th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Andrews Mom…
Hope your boy, throws for 300+ & at least 2 TD’s..
Best tell, him to watch his backside though. With “Super” Mario at LT..
August 29th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
post 49 Whats up 408 Brother
August 29th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
666
draft Bush!!
August 29th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Ill take a DRAFT FOSTERS
August 29th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
True we will get to see Bush run a lot tonight!!
August 29th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
4eva
pregame fix is going down as we type
oh yeah and I’m on beer # 4
August 29th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Just a thought … maybe the raiders want mcfadden to get some time with the new fb they claimed off of waivers, no?
August 29th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Draft Beer, Run Bush!!!
August 29th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
new fix see you guys on the next thread
August 29th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Andrews Mom
where is our post of your favorite raiderett bio and pic.
August 29th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Monday Night Football Sept.8 prime time in Oaktown! Let’s get it on!gotta beat Ratahan and the Donkett’s start the year out right.The “Black Hole” will be ROCKIN’and I’ll be there with my posse representin’ from So.Cal. Touchdown, Raaaaaaiiders! I Nation ,Raider Nation.
August 29th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
riverside #24: that used to be us, with exceptional qbs!
August 29th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
ANYONE HAVE A LINK TO THE GAME? THANKS!
August 29th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
[...] On the fourth preseason game, the starters rested. [...]
August 29th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
man.. there’s gonna be a lot of job openings after that defensive drive…