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Analyzing the final 53

By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Saturday, August 30th, 2008 at 6:53 pm in Oakland Raiders.

Taking into account the roster could change as early as today as the Raiders consider waiver claims, an analysis of the 53-man roster:

QUARTERBACKS (3)—Starter: JaMarcus Russell. Backups: Andrew Walter, Marques Tuiasosopo

Summary: Is Russell ready for prime time? We’ll find out soon enough. There was some consideration for going with two quarterbacks after Walter separated himself from Tuiasosopo, but the Raiders’ pass protection issues and experiences with revolving quarterbacks during tough seasons made it so three is not a crowd.

RUNNING BACKS (4)—Starters: RB Justin Fargas, FB Justin Griffith. Backups: RB Darren McFadden, RB Michael Bush.

Lane Kiffin has dreams of the three-headed monster (Fargas, McFadden, Bush) and close to 600 rushing attempts. Griffith is going to need some help or by season’s end he’ll be 5-foot-5 and 175 pounds. A bit of a surprise Luke Lawton wasn’t retained, but the Raiders may have someone else in mind. If nobody claims Marcel Reece, expect him to be named to the practice squad. Louis Rankin, who seemed to fade as camp went on, could merit consideration also.

WIDE RECEIVERS (5)—Starters: SE Javon Walker, FL Ronald Curry. Backups: Johnnie Lee Higgins, Chaz Schilens, Todd Watkins.

As it stands, Curry is going to have to play a lot of snaps, and he tends to wear down in part because as the slot receiver he takes a big pounding on catches past the first down stake. Hard to see the inconsistent Higgins as the third wideout as well as both the punt and kickoff return specialist. Schilens showed enough speed against Seattle to get Kiffin’s support. Watkins had to make the team at least initially or all the talk about performing in training camp instantly becomes nonsense. Bottom line is Walker needs to be good. Really, really good. Arman Shields was put on I.R. in hopes he can be next year’s Michael Bush. Unfortunately, there will be no window to bring him back this year when he is healthy.

TIGHT ENDS (3)—Starter: Zach Miller. Backups: John Madsen, Tony Stewart.

Status quo was pretty much a slam dunk unless the Raiders decided to go with two and use Fred Wakefield as a third tight end in power situations. The Raiders like Strong, and that was before he separated his shoulder and came back the next day. Could be practice squad material.

OFFENISVE LINE (11)—Starters: LT Kwame Harris, LG Robert Gallery, C Jake Grove, RG Cooper Carlisle, RT Cornell Green. Backups—T Mario Henderson, T Seth Wand, T-G Paul McQuistan, C-G Chris Morris, C-G John Wade, G-T Fred Wakefield.

The starters have been pretty much etched in stone other than Grove’s seizing of the starting spot from Wade. The Raiders are paying wade $1.5 million, and often cut players who make starter’s money if they’re not starting. That means they’re hedging against the possibility of Grove not holding up. It may seem like Henderson has been around forever, but he’s only going into his second season. He was a late bloomer at Florida State, but it’s doubtful his scholarship will last four years in Oakland. He needs to get better in a hurry. Wand and Morris are system reserves who can be plugged in and be comfortable with the zone blocking system. McQuistan does his best with the system but is better at mauling and brawling, and is only comfortable on the left side. Wakefield’s versatility kept him around.

DEFENSIVE LINE (8) Starters: LE Derrick Burgess, DT Tommy Kelly, DT Gerard Warren, RE Jay Richardson. Backups—DE Kalimba Edwards, DE Trevor Scott, DT Terdell Sands, DT William Joseph.

Edwards showed up with a knee injury Sunday the Raiders medical staff is taking a look at. As it stands he is the best bet to replace the eight sacks by nickel rusher Chris Clemons. Burgess is going to need some edge help. Although Kelly is the “three-technique’’ and Warren technically the nose, it is Kelly who plays with the brute strength and Warren who occasionally flashes in the gap. Richardson is showing more push than a year ago, but not enough to stay in the game on passing downs. Scott was taken to school by “Pork Chop’’ Womack Friday night and may be the better for it. He needs to get bigger and could face a lot of inactive weeks. It’s hoped Sands and Joseph can be point-of-attack players who can tie up linemen so linebackers and safeties can come in and clean up. Joseph also plays some end in the 3-4, which may have given him the edge of the more explosive but less stout Josh Shaw. Al Davis also loves to succeed with someone else’s first-round draft pick, which Joseph was with the New York Giants.

LINEBACKERS (7)—Starters: WLB Thomas Howard, MLB Kirk Morrison, SLB Ricky Brown. Backups: LB Isaiah Ekejiuba, LB Robert Thomas, LB Jon Alston, LB Sam Williams

Big crowd here. Howard and Morrison were never in question and need to shed their reputations as stalwart pass defenders and stop the run. Strong side linebackers are the first players off the field on passing downs yet the Raiders kept both men who lost the competition to Brown. Thomas has a knee cap injury which is still being sorted out. Either he or Williams could be the odd man out when the Raiders find a fullback they want. Williams, although healthy, never challenged for the starting spot which was once his, and it’s conceivable Davis simply wants to give him one more chance. Ekejiuba and Alston are core special teams players.

DEFENSIVE BACKS (9) –Starters: CB Nnamdi Asomugha, SS Gibril Wilson, FS Michael Huff, CB DeAngelo Hall. Backups: CB Stanford Routt, S Tyvon Branch, CB Chris Johnson, S Rashad Baker, S Hiram Eugene.

Five safeties? Rod Woodson wouldn’t believe it. When he was a Raider he would laugh about how they would sometimes have only two, filling the secondary with corners. The problem was corners such as Michael Waddell and Nick Sanchez were victimized repeatedly and Darrick Brown is an imposing athlete who isn’t ready for the NFL. Meanwhile, Huff has good cover skills, and Eugene was seen playing some slot corner of late. Even with the presence of Hall, the dominant presence against the pass will be Asomugha, with Wilson being the key man against the run. If those men have big years, the unit as a whole could be one of the NFL’s best.

SPECIALISTS (3)—PK Sebastian Janikowski, P Shane Lechler, LS Jon Condo.

Yawn.

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509 Responses to “Analyzing the final 53”

  1. Jim Lofton Says:

    ??????

  2. RaiderNation Says:

    LMN, YOU are a Trick.

  3. Jim Lofton Says:

    Oh wow,..I was first?

  4. Greedyone Says:

    Damn do we need some additional recievers before Monday rolls around.

  5. Jim Lofton Says:

    Brien you here?

  6. Dski Says:

    Sign Willie Anderson to play RT - now!!!!

  7. Raiderwolf Says:

    no surprises

  8. Kyle Says:

    Willie Willie!

  9. La Milicia Negra Says:

    “Al Davis also loves to succeed with someone else’s first-round draft pick, which Joseph was with the New York Giants.”

    Robert Davis comes to mind too, and Kalimba Edwards was picked 35th over all, you don’t come much closer to the 1st round =)

  10. El Dirty Says:

    Drop Tui, trade walter, sign Simms.

  11. Kyle Says:

    this blog needs flash format and auto refresh

  12. Jhill Says:

    “McQuistan does his best with the system but is better at mauling and brawling, and is only comfortable on the left side.”

    Isn’t a mauler and brawler just what we need on the left side?

    Let him play LT or RT. Can it be any worse? Move Harris back to RT and give McQ a shot at LT. Or vice versa.

  13. La Milicia Negra Says:

    ufffff, the game announcer on the Louisiana State game just made an horrible reference.. especially with danish eyes..

    he said when players are in one big mountain of buddies, its like being in the mosh pit of a pearl jam concert..

  14. Raidermot Says:

    “Al Davis also loves to succeed with someone else’s first-round draft pick, which Joseph was with the New York Giants.”

    Al Davis also loves to try . . . . .

    raidermot

  15. EndZoner Says:

    ElDirty, you have absolutely NO CLUE about qb

  16. El Dirty Says:

    EndBoner

    Are u kidding me? The proof is there Tui sucks. Walter is a good QB but not for this system. Simms is familiar to a similar offense. tell me why he would wouldn’t be a good fit?

  17. S&B Says:

    Dski & Kyle — Yes, get Willie Anderson in here now. Forget zone blocking blah, blah, blah. Our tackles can’t block, get Anderson and put him on the right side. He can start against Denver. Green and Brown cannot passblock. At least get Anderson so that he can come off the bench if Green or Brown find themselves getting overwhelmed in a game.

    Forget signing a WR. Let’s just go with the guys we got now. Too bad Shields is on IR. Davis, stop trying to take on every doggone injury project or 1st round bust in the league. We needed Shields right now…not next year

  18. bdlraider Says:

    In other news I’m at the sjsu uc davis football game and its not looking good for sjsu. Too many al davis scholorship players on this team this year.

  19. La Milicia Negra Says:

    sorry, what is sjsu?

  20. K-Rock Says:

    Travis Taylor was cut by the Panthers.

  21. coinman Says:

    LMN: san jose state univ.

  22. LosT Says:

    Sam Williams Scholorship!!!

  23. La Milicia Negra Says:

    Coinman..

    thanks bro’.. and san jose and 408, has something to do with each other, right?

  24. LosT Says:

    Should’ve kept Reece…

  25. Lesterjensen Says:

    There is nobody out there better than super mario?

  26. LosT Says:

    Schweigert didn’t make it…

  27. EndZoner Says:

    Very simple, ElDirty. Sims has a weaker arm than tui and AW is a better fit than sims even would be.

  28. Kirk Says:

    #10 El Dirty, great idea.

    Walter is scared Chitless.

    Dump him and sign Simms.

  29. Jim Lofton Says:

    losT,…what do you mean by scholarship?

  30. EndZoner Says:

    You want Simms? The same guy that got beat out by Jeff Garthia, Brian Griese Luke McCown and Josh Johnson?

  31. Lesterjensen Says:

    I hope they give Cutler a beating. Already I hate him as much as Elway

  32. El Dirty Says:

    Thanks Endzoner u explained a lot there. Chris is just as mobile as Tui except chris will take care of the ball better… what’s Tui’s highlight in the NFL almost throwing the game winning TD againts the Chiefs on Monday night? AW has a cannon but also has poor placement… 2 TD’s he missed Fri. and lets not forget the cement shoes he wears for a moving pocket. Chris can step in and win a ball game. He has proven that, AW or Tui haven’t.

  33. K-Rock Says:

    Reche “Bug-Eye” Caldwell was cut by the Rams. This guy could be productive in the right system.

    He had 61 receptions for 760 yards for the Pats 2 years ago.

    He also had some KR duties in his last year at San Diego in 2005.

  34. BigBadRaider Says:

    i think its a good lineup except for us keepin Tackle mario henderson,BADD MOVE,if anythin wut we need to do is get tha big man frm cinci,Big WiLLiE!!! if anyone agrees pleez let me kno,i can almost guarantee if we snatch him up AND MABE ASHLEY frm tha niners,the offence will be solid!

  35. Jim Lofton Says:

    Raiders should have cut Kiffin, hes a worthless biotch of a coach,…doesnt belong in the NFL…you people are trippin on roster cuts when the real problem is we have no head coach.

  36. Jim Lofton Says:

    Did SF cut Lelee?…if so we should get him asap.

  37. BigBadRaider Says:

    yea they did,what do u think about that one jim?

  38. black void Says:

    The Niners cut FB Moran Norris. Let’s grab him.

  39. Lesterjensen Says:

    Jim Lofton are you sure? Maybe we should get Nick Saban or bring back Shell? We’re moving forward lets see what he’s got please no more coaching changes!!!

  40. deezo Says:

    bring rudi in!!!!!!!!!!!

  41. Jim Lofton Says:

    What do I think?..I think hes better then anyone we have…period.

  42. deezo Says:

    bring rudi in please!!!!!!

  43. Lesterjensen Says:

    Bobby Petrino???

  44. La Milicia Negra Says:

    FB David Kirtman/FB Moran Norris
    CB Deltha O’Neal
    LB Ahmad Brooks
    DE Jerome McDougle
    T Willie Anderson?

    WR Ashley Lelie as bobbler!!
    WR Reche Caldwell ??
    QB André Woodson to practice squad..

  45. Jim Lofton Says:

    Kiffin is a f`n bum,..a fraud,…just promote Lofton today,..the players hate that little pipsqueek Kiffin.

  46. garthraider Says:

    Next weeks signings will be quite interesting,see who ends up on the practice squad. Raiders 24 donks 10

  47. BigBadRaider Says:

    i agree,thats all im saying tho,and rudi r u kiddin,that would be a dumbass investment on a player that aint even as good as Fargas….haha funny

  48. Sam Adams Moobs Says:

    Lelie…..why? What’s he done in the league other then waste his potential? He’s never put up numbers. Don’t we have enough of those guys? At least Walker has put together one great and two decetn years.

    49ers cut their big fullback that blocked for Gore. Martz wanted a lighter, faster FB. Wouldn’t mind seeing him come over.

  49. Jim Lofton Says:

    F the practice squad,..is that what does it for you bud?…the practice squad keep you up at night you moron?…how about posting about the Raiders,…I have heard it all now, people in here posting about who they want on the f`n practice squad…idiot.

  50. Sam Adams Moobs Says:

    I’d kill for a spell check and an edit button, so I could correct my typo and add Norris’ name to my original post.

  51. BigBadRaider Says:

    i can see that but give him a 1 year deal its better then bein stuck with higgins MR new and improved KR,and thats about all hes doin this year

  52. Jim Lofton Says:

    Whatever,..Lelee is better then any receiver we have,…the worst receiving corp in the NFL…we should not attempt a single pass against Denver,..not one.

  53. silverblacksteve Says:

    this is a comment section, not a chat room for some of you idiots. good job jerry. thanks for the update.

  54. El Dirty Says:

    Lelie??? He’s a bum… I like what we got as far as depth, Javon needs to prove to Nation he’s a #1

  55. Jim Lofton Says:

    I still cant believe the Raiders didnt take the offer from Walker to retire and give back dough,…Walker sucks.

  56. BigBadRaider Says:

    HAHAHAHA…sumthin like that im feelin fargas and Mcfadden!!! honestly we got the run game on lock,but im sry wut r we runnin tha ball for all day bein 1 dementional and takin up play clock wen itd be nice ta see wut russell can really do!

  57. Lesterjensen Says:

    An experienced O lineman for depth would be nice but I don’t want any starters off others scrap piles. I live in New England and all I can say is just say no to Reche. I hope to never see the bug eyes again.

  58. Jim Lofton Says:

    Lelee is a bum, but better then any Raider receiver thats for sure.

  59. sportsman Says:

    Bring in Joe Horn. We have a pathetic group of receivers. Walker, curry.. Higgins?? Our O-line is horrible against the pass. Our D-line is even more pathetic. Kelly..is the worst d-line in the NFL. Every night he goes to sleep with a smile on his face thinking…SUCKER AL DAVIS. All that money given to him, it could have been used to bring in to big time DT’s. Walters is a horrible QB with no mobility and always fumbles. Tui is a good guy, but unfortunatley not a complete player. We need two other veteran QB’S. Sorry fellow raider fans. Prepare for another embarrasing season. Prediction… will win about 4 games.

  60. BigBadRaider Says:

    i forgot about horn….oo yea its probably cuz his career is O.V.E.R.,and mark miy words,MR sports man,raiders get at least 8 wins!!!

  61. Florida Pete Says:

    if you really want a change…

    go big…

    go with a proven winner…

    go with Mike Scosia…

  62. Lesterjensen Says:

    Whiners! Raiders rule, they rule every year, everybody wants to be like them. Win championships like them. They are on the rise. The NFL is at its best when Raiders win and they will again the year, have a little faith. I am gonna watch a re run of SNL and have a juice box OUT!

  63. RaiderKen Says:

    No big suprises in this. I’ll wait to see who we pick up off waivers. One week One day and One wake up!

  64. El Dirty Says:

    And there it is? lol

  65. DarthPirate Says:

    Kelly is the worst Dlineman in the NFL? What?

  66. Jim Lofton Says:

    Joe Horn?..to do what?..he cant run and catch a ball anymore.

  67. DarthPirate Says:

    Zach Miller is one of the few competent players on offense.

  68. Blackholepriest Says:

    Now I know why the astute football fans rarely come in here. Some of the stuff you guy’s post is just unreal. Stupid doens’t even qualify.

  69. johann Says:

    I think we made good moves with the receivers. Watkins and Schillens look solid. Why do we not have a backup fullback? I thought Lawton looked good in the last preseason game (I live in Seattle and saw it with me own eyes). He caught numerous checkdowns from Walter and was able to move a bit after the catch. Maybe it’s a problem with his blocking? Robert Thomas (abuser of dogs) and Super Mario got to go.

  70. Jim Lofton Says:

    Ya I can see that.

  71. Jim Lofton Says:

    Pete we know who you are.

  72. Florida Pete Says:

    Jim Lofton = MR

  73. Moss hater#1 Says:

    The raiders should consider bringing in willie anderson and deltha oneal because willie anderson is an upgrade over harris and green. Plus were hurting at cb beyond nnamdi deangelo and routt. But with the cuts that happened so far if we make a move al davis can make us deeper.

  74. Moss hater#1 Says:

    Oh yeah and i’m liking terry glenn as a replacement fo drew carter.

  75. Florida Pete Says:

    i think getting rid of Waddell basically improved the DB situation 100%…

  76. Riverside Raiders Fan Says:

    Cut Condo, Tui, Wakefield and SAM WILLIAMS…”not tomorrow, not after breakfast, but now,” as said by Warden Norton, in the Shawshank Redemption.

  77. El Dirty Says:

    Oneal makes sense for depth… at minimum wage

  78. willie Says:

    I look forward to Florida Pete and his posts, A real Raider fan! Brien,that is an imposter,it is not you

  79. Jim Lofton Says:

    brien you think I would sweat that dork?…too funny.

  80. Florida Pete Says:

    it is bizarre to watch someone blogging to himself…

  81. Florida Pete Says:

    willie Says:
    August 30th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
    I look forward to Florida Pete and his posts, A real Raider fan! Brien,that is an imposter,it is not you

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    i know it’s not Brien…

    it’s Lofton talking to himself…

    i’m betting it’s MR…

  82. Florida Pete Says:

    bedtime for me…

    take care…

  83. Lane Kiffin Says:

    doug BRIEN worst kicker ever in the nfl. as bad as cole ford

  84. La Milicia Negra Says:

    yeah its bedtime for me too, I think Missouri is about done =)

    Its a very important soccer day for me tomorrow, its like Raiders playing the broncos.. uhh, its going to be scary :/
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Firm_(Denmark)

  85. El Dirty Says:

    later LMN

  86. Rob ryans fat gut Says:

    Sam Williams is a loser. That’s a ryan/ al Davis bit@h

  87. Rob ryans fat gut Says:

    why wasn’t rob Ryan released??? He’s 400 Lbs of dead weight

  88. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    Lelie would be a great acquisition if he could catch! i died laughing when atlanta picked him up (from denv), now sf is letting him go… denv, atl, sf … not teams known for having a receiver.. yet lelie can’t make those teams! He does run fast, though. Maybe he has a torn acl and therefore, would be worth the investment. sorry.. no more sarcasm.

    we spent how much money on sands to have him be a back up?????

    by the way;

    i love USC< BC,Cal and the over on the mizz/ill 4-4 MO FOES!!!!!!!!

  89. El Dirty Says:

    CT Raider

    Would u take Chris Simms?

  90. Rob ryans fat gut Says:

    cut Henderson, wand & Eugene too. They are worthless garbage!!!

  91. sweep the leg Says:

    Why did we keep 3 TE’s and only 1 FB. Especially considering that Wakefield can be used as a extra blocker.

  92. Coach on Wheels Says:

    “I’ve heard their name before so they must be good.”

    The “analysis” in here is unreal.

    Joe Horn and Chris Simms?

    Schillens and Walter are better.

    The Raiders need a blocking FB and I guess Lawton was a better receiver than blocker. Bring in a blocking FB and cut LB Williams.

    Any upgrade to our back-ups on offensive line would be good. Can’t afford to have Wand and Henderson one play from starting.

    Numerous teams are going to two QB’s. Tui could be cut and brought back anytime. He’s not goiug anywhere. Problem is, with our OT’s we may need three QBs.

    Reece? A WR playing FB? What kind of twisted logic is that? Hell, put Wakefield in to lead block. He can catch too. Reece? People crack me up.

  93. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    I’m a mike scosscia fan!

  94. sweep the leg Says:

    I agree with the two QB scenario in our situation. If it comes down to it let Curry play 3rd QB, all he would have to do is hand it off anyway.

  95. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    el dirty: you’re funny as hell!!! as soon as i noticed you wanted him i said to myself, “is that who i argued with about that floater?” :)

    You know i’d take him in a minute if i had a kite contest! ahhahaha

  96. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    i suppose a lot of single back sets or my man bush and mcfadden!!! that is what i see.. send one in motion.. hand off, pass, screen do what you gotta do and do it w/out a huddle!

  97. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    the arm on my chair throws harder than simms! He couldn’t PASS a driving test let alone 25 yards! He’s not the quickest brother in the world either (he’s a true blonde).

  98. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    COW; when i read 1 fb… my first thought was wakefield!

  99. El Dirty Says:

    COW

    I think he is better in our system. Plus we trade walter and get something out of him, next year he walks and we get nothing. Can’t believe this is so hard to see… Chris has been a starter in this league has won games and looked good.

  100. Noshadowking Says:

    Im all for keeping just 2 qb’s as well. Seriously if somehow Russel & Walter both went down in the same game Curry could hand off and hell throw if he really had to even though the playbook would be limited.

  101. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    chris simms hasn’t won didly. i gave you the stats last time.. they won after he was knocked out. he’s horrible. he got cut on a team that kept 5 qbs through preseason. no one else has made a call to him. he’s horrible… he should throw right handed.. can’t be any weaker than the left.

  102. El Dirty Says:

    Alright I quit! Damn!

  103. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    curry was a qb at nc. has anyone watched him pass on end arounds???? he couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat. His qbing is over.

  104. rone Says:

    Jerry, i confess my ignorance on this matter, but since tight ends do a lot of blocking, could the Raiders use Stewart as a backup fullback, or is the kind of blocking TEs and FBs do more different than i imagine?

  105. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    i love you ed!

  106. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    simms qb, joe horn and lelie at wr; hell we should even throw in jlh.

    they wouldn’t complete a pass all season!!!!!!!!

  107. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    i have ffl draft in the morning. hopefully someone drafts rudi johnson and fred taylor. NOw that taylor was arrested jones-drew stock should rise (if anyone knows),.

  108. El Dirty Says:

    Lol He Is not that bad! He would be a GOOD Back Up!

  109. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    el dirty… to trade you need a partner who wants what you’re trading.

    by the way, mccown was traded. we should have signed him.. he had trade value!

  110. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    he is right now.. third string on his couch!

  111. El Dirty Says:

    That’s it! Starting The Chris Simms campaign! I will prove u all Wrong! He will Send plays in to J-Mac all the way to the superbowl!

  112. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    ED; are you a texas fan????

  113. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    you and chris simms

    brien and jlh..

    wth????

    in that case, I want ryan leaf!

  114. El Dirty Says:

    CT

    Am I supposed to be ED!?

  115. El Dirty Says:

    Watching AW miss schilenz down the right side of the field right now on my DVR!

  116. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    yes, sorry.. i should space it!

  117. El Dirty Says:

    Texans fan??? WTH???

  118. El Dirty Says:

    Goodnight! Good argument CT, better than Endzoner… Go Simms! I’m right!

  119. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    i figured texas where simms went to school!

    have a good one! he throws floaters

  120. El Dirty Says:

    Dirty

  121. L Berk Says:

    Can we plwase get tha tackle from Cincin? He was a pro bowler.

  122. kelly's wallet Says:

    Damn, Eugene is still around. Luke Lawton looked great with good hands. 3rd week Javon out and Schilens in!

  123. FANG Says:

    zzzzzzzzzzzzz…more drivel from you morons

  124. Scottish Raider Says:

    Some interesting rookies got cut yesterday, including some familiar names from our pre-draft posts:

    Dre Moore (DT)
    Mario Urrutia (WR)
    Marcus Monk (WR)
    Andre Woodson (QB)

    We should be re-stocking our Practice Squad with the best talent available. Maybe we could keep Reece and Rankin, but the other spaces should be considered open to those with the highest upside.

  125. RaiderNation951 Says:

    Simms hasn’t been the same since he lost his spleen. Keep the bum off the roster. We have more then enough dead wait still here. Trim the fat Lane, Trim the fat.

  126. Scottish Raider Says:

    I agree that Simms is the right or best option. I would trade Walter (he is UFA in January) and cut Tui. I would bring in an experience veteran, like Joey Harrington, to back-up JR and put the best available prospect, like Andre Woodson, on the practice squad.

    Walter and Tui offer little for this season and nothing for next. We need to do some forward planning.

  127. raiderblood Says:

    Hate to see RB Adimchinobe Echemandu go….this guy is a great player I mean consistant…should kept him and use as receiver or k/p return…jlh sucks

  128. MR Says:

    What do you losers expect? Other than me taking it up my ass, the most constant thing here is the Raiders bungling their personnel. Alston?? Wand?? Who are they going to bring back Doug Gabriel? Sometimes I just need a good ass ram to calm me down.

  129. JStu Says:

    Are they serious about the CF factor?

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview08/columns/story?id=3530077

    got to love ESPN.

  130. kevn Says:

    I like football. Football is good fun to watch and to play.
    One time, I saw a football game and the football players scored many touchdowns.
    Some day, when I grow up, I too would like to be a football player. I hope to score many touchdowns.

  131. RaiderNation951 Says:

    Dallas cut DT Junior Siavii. He is a big body (6′5″ 320) and was let go due to too many other good bodies at that position.

    The Eagles cut Jerome McDougle. He is a good DE.

    Saints cut DT Orien Harris (6′3″ 300)

    Not a whole lot left that jumped out at me, but I’m sure I missed a couple.

  132. Lowdown in Beijing Says:

    Are some of you blind???

    Walters is suddenly a scrambling QB with a rocket Arm…not as strong as JRuss, but NFL strong nonetheless.

    Walters is good enough to start…he doesn’t whine..and he knows the playbook as well as JRuss.

    Walters has more experience than the Packers 1-2 QBs.

    Why are some of you bitching about trading this cat?

  133. Sirbliztalot Says:

    How many games did JLH cost us last year? How many games did he win for us? If any of you statisticians know, please respond.

    I am glad we kept Schillens. He looks to be “a natural”. He makes those receptions look as fluid as Jerry Rice did. I like his YAC also- turns and goes upfield in one fluid motion. This young man is going to have at least one big play against Denver. I just hope JLH does not nullify Schilens contribution by fumbling a score away.

  134. Sirbliztalot Says:

    Kevn,

    That’s adorable, Kevn. How old are you 4 years old? That is darling!

  135. ?????? Says:

    Who is Walters????

    Barbara Walters?

  136. MR Says:

    I am the biggest bitch ever. Phukking losers

  137. MR Says:

    Effing LMN can kiss my effing a$$ that effing piece of effing Eurotrash. Eff this and eff that and eff it all. Effing A!

  138. ENGLANDRAIDER Says:

    Thanks Jerry, that was a good analysis. Seems like Kiffin and Al did it about right.

  139. Jrad Says:

    What really is weird, Im way across here in Jamaica, with Gustav doing its thing, and I wonder to myself, I dont really know crap about football, been a raider fan sice 1983, YET I can see clearly who shouldnt make this team and Im usually correct most of the times, especially to the OBVIOUS, I wonder whomever is picking the team , are they just blind or is it AL Davis? The raiders make Gustav look like a joke as they rain on their own parade, more than Gustav rained on us.

  140. Terrapin Says:

    Lawton cut - his blocking was terrible ..told ya’.

    Man the back end of this roster is so weak ..those cuts received a big yaaaawwwwwnnn!! The guys cut will likely be out of the league after this. Kiffin’s not lying …the back end is weak …very weak.

    There will still be more changes to come. Tui is not safe imo. They may still bring in another WR and OL help.

  141. Terrapin Says:

    If Moore got cut …I say pick him up ASAP! He was a late bloomer in college but the kid has unreal athleticism and huge potential …he’s a project but get him in!!!

  142. La Milicia Negra Says:

    Yirh! The Battle of Copenhagen! lets kill those F©K’ers!

  143. Exlaraiderseasonticketholder Says:

    Ha Ha, Stuart Schweigert got cut! lol

  144. Native Says:

    Thanks Al for putting another pee-wee roster together (and basically firing the coach even before season started)GOOD LUCK KIFFY ON YOUR FUTURE ENDEVOURS!

  145. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    terrapin; who is moore?

  146. Native Says:

    SAME BS ROSTER WILL = SAME MEDIOCRE RESULTS!!
    21ST CENTURY NFL PASS LEAGUE in case you haven’t got the memo! raiders should join ARENA LEAGUE all they have is a center and 2 guards!

  147. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    SIMMS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

    I’d take McClown any day of the week over SImms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  148. 408RAIDER Says:

    Yeah Baby!
    My boy Chaz is an OAKLAND RAIDER!! Ufck yeah! Congratulations Chaz now step the ufck up and represent that #81 like your suppose 2…..

    Morning NATION

  149. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    what’s up 408.

    i’m dead tired… drinking coffee and trying to get my bearings for my ffl draft in 16 min!

  150. La Milicia Negra Says:

    Jim CT..

    Dre Moore, DT - Rookie =)

  151. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    thought we were looking for a wr?? though, we do need a dt but a studly. We have mediocres.

  152. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    we need ANY wr help we can get

  153. 408RAIDER Says:

    LMN

    your boy Branch is gonna be a stud I’m happy he’s an OAKLAND RAIDER…

  154. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    EXCUSE ME…. BRANCH IS MY BOY!@ UCONN HELLO!

  155. 408RAIDER Says:

    Jim

    Im still drunk from last night.. Staind concert was cool.. My daughter wont let me flirt with the ladies tho :(

  156. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    hahahahaha

    i used to tell my step daughter to call me “uncle” when around other women (it was a joke). :)

    damn kids! That’s what closets are for! lol

  157. 408RAIDER Says:

    Jim your boy!!! and ours also

    Raider ON! I”m so freakin ready for the donkey game!!

  158. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    how many fingers am i holding up?

  159. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    i think i’m picking westbrook w/the 3rd overall pick of the ffl!

  160. La Milicia Negra Says:

    408..

    yeah Branch is a keeper, I’m really happy for him, I think we all will very soon, when he gets off his cast, he will be even better..

    Scott just needs some lbs and he’ll be okay too, not a beast.. I had this weird idea of him being a LB, he is fast as hell, but then it would be a completely new position for him again, a bit of a stretch =)

    Schillens looks great too, I like his height and his speed, I like him better than Shields..

    Im glad Holland is gone, I don’t remember was Chris Johnson cut? what about Bowie?

  161. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    bowie is ir and i believe johnson made it

  162. 408RAIDER Says:

    The cold part about it is the ladies all tell me how cute she is and we get to talking then the princess starts hatein…

    Oh well what are you gonna do?

  163. La Milicia Negra Says:

    jim CT..

    you probably don’t need any help, but as your backup TE, i will suggest Fasano, he is in miami, with chad as QB, he’ll get a lot of catches =)

  164. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    yes! use your kid as bait! You’re becoming my hero. I used a cockerspaniel but a little girl works better! lol :)

  165. 408RAIDER Says:

    wasn’t scott a WR or TE before?

    Jim 1?

  166. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    im shooting for 1. clark which i’m taking prob 4 or 5th (a little early but i’m good a picking late qbs/wr/rbs) and my 10 round back up ZACH THE RACK!

  167. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    I think te and moved to de

  168. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    i feel like i’m waiting for a teleconference to begin. Which LMN i’ve had several w/uk,ge,and the swiss.

    my league is in CT and i’m in MO. waiting for the phone to ring… i have to have a cell phone to my head for 5 hours… is that dangerous? :)

  169. 408RAIDER Says:

    Yes sir! Well I take her everywhere I go and when in crowds she’s on my shoulders. The ladies do seem to think its cool tho..

  170. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    funny thing.. they have me in the east division. gotta go.

  171. La Milicia Negra Says:

    Jim

    okay thanks =) I try to remember football stuff, but my brain is totally occupied with todays soccer game, i fear we will lose, but i fear that every time we play the Fu©kers..

  172. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    well i think it’s admirable that you found this little girl outside your house near a garbage can and taken her to be your own. It must be tough raising her all by yourself. YOu’re a good guy! :) who’s there for you?????

  173. 408RAIDER Says:

    use a blu tooth!!

    I mean if scott can go from TE to DE I dont see why he cant make the move to LB…

  174. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    lb has a lot more to learn. and no practice time

  175. 4evaRaider Says:

    Good Morning 408 good morning NATION

  176. La Milicia Negra Says:

    408..

    yup, Scott was a TE, then DE, and I hope he some day will be our LB, butt as I said in my post, that will probably be too big a mouthful to change position again…

  177. La Milicia Negra Says:

    but, even =) LoL

  178. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    i saw that! i was wondering “butt” ???

  179. 4evaRaider Says:

    Scott would flourish in 3-4

  180. 408RAIDER Says:

    morning 4eva

    had a blast @ the concert last night & the bike thing was also pretty cool…..

    I brushed my teeth twice and my mouth still taste like liquor… :P

  181. ChargersChoke Says:

    ANDRE WOODSON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    BACKUP QB STEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    PRACTICE SQUAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  182. 408RAIDER Says:

    Im gonna have to go to blog rehab Im addicted to this place…

  183. Native Says:

    Its going to be a miserable season just like last year no WR ! Watkins didn’t know which way to turn in the Seattle game??????
    The Raiders beat the Donkeys and chefs last season because both clubs steadily are getting worst not that the Raiders are getting better! Its like the loser who don’t have a GF then all the sudden he does OH wait shes a prostitute! Essentially that is what the Raiders have become they take your money merchandise, games etc and you know they are going to suck and find a way to lose and leave you broke and with nothing to cheer for!

  184. 4evaRaider Says:

    move over 408 we all are!!!

  185. 4evaRaider Says:

    I will never believe that Native

  186. 408RAIDER Says:

    yo Native

    Take all that gloom and doom BS someplace else! Our squad is gonna do big things this year and it all starts next Monday when we smash the ufckin donkeys!!

  187. RaiderNation Says:

    Native, we don’t need recievers.

    We are going to pound the rock 40 times a game.
    Go Raiders!

  188. 408RAIDER Says:

    Native=MR

  189. La Milicia Negra Says:

    I wonder what Oakglenn would say!?

  190. La Milicia Negra Says:

    well i’m off to the most important soccer game of the year..

    the transfer window shots down tonight, we got a striker, a 19 year old Gambian.. (!?) lets hope he has what it takes =)

    173 people arrested prior to the game, lol, this will be so crazy..

    c ya all =)

  191. 4evaRaider Says:

    What about 178 hours or something like dat.WHOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOO.LIKE 408 ALLWAYS SAYS UFCK THE DONKEYS!!!

  192. R8R4FER Says:

    Courtney Anderson is out there maybe he could help block on this line. He’s a big body if anything else.

  193. 4evaRaider Says:

    have a good time LMN

  194. El Dirty Says:

    CHRIS SIMMS!!!

  195. R8R4FER Says:

    Culpepper can’t buy a job in this league but JT O SULLIVAN is a starter.

  196. 4evaRaider Says:

    who does Courtny anderson play 4???

  197. 408RAIDER Says:

    Yo Dirty!

    You ready for the season or what?!

    4eva yup!

    Ufck the donkeys ufck the chefs and ufck the chokers!!

  198. vegas raider Says:

    If I were Robert Thomas, Mario Henderson, or Chris Johnson I wouldn’t get too comfortable. If we sign any guys off waivers, those guys are going to be the ones to go

  199. 408RAIDER Says:

    I think CA plays 4 walmart!

  200. R8R4FER Says:

    the bills let Anderson go

  201. vegas raider Says:

    Culpepper is getting black-balled by the league.

    http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/29/an-open-letter-from-daunte-culpepper/

  202. 408RAIDER Says:

    morning Vegas!

    Kiss concert tonight! Yeah!!!

  203. R8R4FER Says:

    Sam williams gets a free pass?

  204. PA RAIDER Says:

    We’re gonna have a solid “D”. We’re gonna be able to run the ball on anybody and hopefully be able to control time of possession, (wear down defenses) but we will need to complete a third down pass every now and then (Zach Miller). This ball control will then open up opportunities during the game for a big pass play. We should be in every game with this style of play. 10-6 or 9-7 this year!!!

  205. vegas raider Says:

    What’s good 408? Didn’t take you as a Kiss fan. What do you think about Griffen being the only lead-blocking fullback? Unless they pick someone up, lots of one-back sets and a little of Bush might lighten the load for Griffen.

  206. 4evaRaider Says:

    Man 408 you go 2 a lot of concerts!Im glad you take the “princess”,the first concert I took my “princess was Disturbed;she was 10 and loved it!!!

  207. R8R4FER Says:

    We better control the ball this year because I don’t see us scoring more than 17pts per game.

  208. Terrapin Says:

    The WR corp clearly lacks experience and I think Kiffin will be looking for more if any viable options are out there. Maybe after the season begins - its only a few days from now.

    Dre Moore was drafted by Tampa Bay I believe in the 4th round. So if there is anything there - Monte will surely let Kiffin know from what I gather. Tampa already has a stout defense.

  209. El Dirty Says:

    408

    SO FRIGGEN READY!! neighbor across the street is a donkey fan! He got egged at 3 PM Yesterday… got his kid too!! HAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  210. Midwest fan Says:

    What’s with all the bashing already. Game 1 hasn’t been played yet. Ya basing that on the preseason. I know it’s probably just MR getting his licks in before the season starts and we do well and he has to leave this place in disgrace.

    I’d really like to see some pressure this year on D. I think we should give Willie a shot. He used to be good. Not sure what he’s done lately though. I think our WR’s will be better than advertised! I think 8-8 or 9-7 would be a good and realistic season.

  211. Terrapin Says:

    And its not about Sam Williams and Chris Johnson getting “scholarships”. Just take a look at the cuts man - those players are far worse than Williams and Johnson. They are on the team because no one else is there to take their spots.

  212. vegas raider Says:

    Sam Williams will contribute on special teams. He always was a pretty good ST player, but when he was a starter he didn’t play as much ST. Made a few nice tackles this preseason on punt coverage

  213. 408RAIDER Says:

    Vegas

    I’m waiting for us to make a move in regards to the FB….

    4eva
    Yup concerts are fun and my princess just turned 7 and loves to party…

    Dirty

    yeah Dude! got the kid too.. LMAO

  214. Sith Lord Davis Says:

    Kiffin can look at this master plan and learn from it. Alabama looked like a contender yesterday with 14 freshman.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=maisel_ivan&id=3561883

  215. El Dirty Says:

    408

    They deserved it, bastard put visine in my drink a week ago! I was sick as hell for 24 hours!

  216. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    we better control the ball because i picked mcfadden w/the 3rd of the 3rd round!

  217. Sith Lord Davis Says:

    If they can get turnovers from the defense the offense will score more than 17 a game.

  218. El Dirty Says:

    CT

    That’s a good spot to get him, I have 2 drafts today!

  219. R8R4FER Says:

    http://www.profootballtalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/merrimanpftsoup.jpg

  220. Sith Lord Davis Says:

    Its good to see Culpepper get what was coming too him after he dissed JR and the Raiders when they yanked him for good.

  221. Senile Kings' Aricept Says:

    Do any of you remember why the former Soviet Union finally tore down the Berlin Wall ? Gorby correctly reasoned there was no point trying to lock the front door when everyone was running out the back…point being that our obviously improved pass defense will be repeatedly undermined and bypassed by our continued..yet again.. inability to stop the run…

  222. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    mcfadden and westbrook i plan on picking ricky williams in about the 7th (we use defensive players instead of teams so there are 3dl 3lb 3db) therefore, people start filling those slots before #3 rbs.

    ricky williams w/prob start early and then mcfadden.

    although i think mcfadden and westbrook will catch more passes than a lot of teams WR.

  223. 4evaRaider Says:

    wo alabama held clemson too ZERO yards rushing;impressive

  224. R8R4FER Says:

    It has yet to be proven we can score during the pre season Special teams had better be special.

  225. PA RAIDER Says:

    We definitely need to win the turnover battle to have a chance of a good year. We have the talent to take-away, our Offense just needs to protect the ball.

  226. Jim (ct raider) Says:

    221 great analogy. i love that sh##t! need mlb. sorry, i know that’s unpopular.

  227. Sith Lord Davis Says:

    I disagree, I see this secondary being able to produce turnovers unlike the past 5 years and now that Sapp and Scheigert are gone the run d will be much improved.

  228. 408RAIDER Says:

    Dirty

    I thought the visine thing was just a wives tale? Sucks he did that U shoulda used rocks!

  229. R8R4FER Says:

    You always have to watch your back door or you get it in the end

  230. El Dirty Says:

    Unfortunately our run defense is stillsuspect… that sucks

  231. Sith Lord Davis Says:

    Schweigert used to watch the backdooor, now he is teamless.

  232. 4evaRaider Says:

    yeah and culpepper passed on a 1million dollar 1year con tract 2 play 4 the cheese-heads,I mean what a way 2 finish youre carrer,October and November are beautifull in beer city

  233. Sith Lord Davis Says:

    Sapp going on dancing with the farts is fitting. he did alot of dancing for the Raiders, danced right out of the way of the center gaurd blocks to provide a nice ally for the running backs to dance through.

  234. El Dirty Says:

    408

    Yeah it works… Used to put it in guys drinks when they didn’t tip when I tended bar.

  235. R8R4FER Says:

    Always tip your bartender words to live by.

  236. 408RAIDER Says:

    they don’t call em El Dirty 4 nothing folks!

    LMAO again!

    got any flicks 4 me today bro?

  237. 408RAIDER Says:

    We are gonna pound the rock! And the D will be much better because the wont be on the field all the damn time!! Ufck I cant wait till next monday!

  238. Sith Lord Davis Says:

    Or drink bottled beer and only drink the ones you watch the bartender open.

  239. R8R4FER Says:

    Whose going to try and test this secondary when they can dare you to stop the run? Wilson at safety is a good start.

  240. El Dirty Says:

    No having this chat by cell phone… Ni flicks till Tues.

  241. PA RAIDER Says:

    408, we have a great chance to be a dominating running powehouse, with a little sprinkle of pass.

  242. Sith Lord Davis Says:

    Sapp must have been getting in shape for the dancing show last year, no wonder he lost all that weight.

  243. stretch Says:

    ya whats the deal with sapp in his commercials with buc gear on? isnt he still “property” of the raiders since he was still under contract?

  244. R8R4FER Says:

    look for a lot of play action passes and Mc fadden out of the backfield along with Bush. Its going to be Miller time most of the time.

  245. saintkaufman Says:

    I hope the first play on offense of the year is an 80 yard bomb to whoever can run that fast, no matter if the catch is made or not. 3 fly patterns, and put the league on notice that this Jamarcus kid will kill you deep. Then run the ball the next 10 plays!
    I tell ya guys, Jamarcus is one cool looking customer. Give him time in the pocket and he can move the ball with ease. He has exceeded my expectations and it’s time the coaches take the training wheels off and let ‘em play.

    Go Raiders!

  246. 4evaRaider Says:

    sounds great Saintkaufman

  247. R8R4FER Says:

    Looking at the stats from last years Bronco game Javon Walker had a huge game. I hope he has payback in mind for Shannahan and lights up Baily and Bly.

  248. Terrapin Says:

    2008 Season NFL.com Raider predictions:

    Vic Carucci: The awkwardness of Lane Kiffin’s uncertain coaching future could prove troublesome, but it won’t matter if rookie running back Darren McFadden lives up to his billing as a game-changing force and JaMarcus Russell can at least be consistently efficient as a first-year starting quarterback. Prediction: 5-11

    Thomas George: Does coach Lane Kiffin last the season? Is quarterback JaMarcus Russell ready? Was the big offseason free agency spending spree worth it? Too many questions, not enough answers for the Raiders. Prediction: 6-10

    Pat Kirwan: The Raiders will not drift far from the run offense and should be in games to the fourth quarter. Last year the defense couldn’t hold a fourth-quarter lead enough to see how much the Raiders had improved under Lane Kiffin. JaMarcus Russell will struggle at times; he is a year away from threatening the division. Prediction: 7-9

    Gil Brandt: Second-year coach Lane Kiffin seems to be turning the team around, and the Raiders have some good young players on both sides of the ball. The key is improving a run defense that ranked 31st last season. Prediction: 6-10

  249. 408RAIDER Says:

    PA

    yep

    As long as we have the lead were in good shape! I still think the passing game will come along as the season progresses! Jamarcus is just to talented.

  250. 4evaRaider Says:

    grind out smash mouth ball control with screens quick-pitches,middle-floods,a few bombs,will help our defence and kill theirs

  251. Sith Lord Davis Says:

    Who had was the worst defense in the NFL last year at giving up points? The Denver Broncos.

  252. El Dirty Says:

    WE NEED A POWER FB

  253. PA RAIDER Says:

    I agree. JaMarcus is going to be a great QB. He will make plays this year with his athleticism alone. We will eventually have an awesome passing game to go along with our running game. JaMarcus is the real deal.

  254. Mistabrown Says:

    ITS WALTER!!!

    WTF is wrong with some of you ?

    # Lowdown in Beijing Says:
    August 30th, 2008 at 6:45 pm

    What the hell is up with Walters???

    Naked bootlegs?

    Displaying quick feet and agility?

    Suddenly we have two extremely mobile QBs and one Tui (signal caller who sometimes throws but is still not a QB in my book).

    The new Walters had really reinvented himself.

  255. R8R4FER Says:

    Shannahan is on the hot seat over firing their D cordinator isn’t he ?

  256. Senile Kings' Aricept Says:

    Post #239, With all due respect…daring the opposition to run against us makes about as much sense as kicking a bear cub…,then trying to defend the irate mother’s charge with a beebee gun…

  257. R8R4FER Says:

    I,d be mobile too with Henderson blocking for me

  258. saintkaufman Says:

    youtube.com/watch?v=FaDtDE5aypI

  259. R8R4FER Says:

    I was speaking for the opposition

  260. El Dirty Says:

    mista

    sooo are u for Aw???

  261. Mistabrown Says:

    Tui, yes
    Walter, NO
    Simms, NO

    You’re fired as GM go play tiddly winks. Take BHP & OakGlenn with you.

    # El Dirty Says:
    August 30th, 2008 at 7:12 pm

    Drop Tui, trade walter, sign Simms.

  262. Mistabrown Says:

    Yeah we should sign him ASAP. He was a FAILURE in SF. He got run out of ATL. Denver kicked him out. And hes been injured for 2 years.

    Brilliant!

    # Jim Lofton Says:
    August 30th, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    Did SF cut Lelee?…if so we should get him asap.

  263. R8R4FER Says:

    By no means am I daring any body to try and run on us unt il I see runs of 25yrds on third down come to an end.

  264. Mistabrown Says:

    For what ?

    # deezo Says:
    August 30th, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    bring rudi in!!!!!!!!!!!