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	<title>Comments on: Van who?</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/</link>
	<description>Getting around the Bay Area with Denis Cuff and the Queen of the Road</description>
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		<title>By: Manfromoakland</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/comment-page-1/#comment-1043</link>
		<dc:creator>Manfromoakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-1043</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hate the van hools. Obviously designed by some engineer who never has to ride busses. Seats facing each other? Different elevations? I just want to chill out, not have a staring contest with some stranger looming over me. The killer is that instead of supporting a local bus company, AC transit buys this crap from Europe. Gillig in Hayward makes busses. Our money could be going to support local workers and a  local company that pays taxes- the taxes that support AC transit!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate the van hools. Obviously designed by some engineer who never has to ride busses. Seats facing each other? Different elevations? I just want to chill out, not have a staring contest with some stranger looming over me. The killer is that instead of supporting a local bus company, AC transit buys this crap from Europe. Gillig in Hayward makes busses. Our money could be going to support local workers and a  local company that pays taxes- the taxes that support AC transit!!!</p>
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		<title>By: This weekly is dead to me, part 2 &#124; A Better Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/comment-page-1/#comment-1041</link>
		<dc:creator>This weekly is dead to me, part 2 &#124; A Better Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 21:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-1041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] If you didn&#8217;t read it, here&#8217;s the link, but for those who don&#8217;t want to waste there time, here&#8217;s the deal. Gammon&#8217;s story is about the Van Hool buses, which I (and everyone I know) happen to like much better than the old buses, but have generated some very aggressive complaints from some riders. Although the anti-Van Hool movement, spearheaded by Oakland activist Joyce Roy, can be extremely loud, they haven&#8217;t demonstrated in the past that they can turn out much in the way of numbers. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] If you didn&#8217;t read it, here&#8217;s the link, but for those who don&#8217;t want to waste there time, here&#8217;s the deal. Gammon&#8217;s story is about the Van Hool buses, which I (and everyone I know) happen to like much better than the old buses, but have generated some very aggressive complaints from some riders. Although the anti-Van Hool movement, spearheaded by Oakland activist Joyce Roy, can be extremely loud, they haven&#8217;t demonstrated in the past that they can turn out much in the way of numbers. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The weekly from hell &#124; A Better Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/comment-page-1/#comment-1042</link>
		<dc:creator>The weekly from hell &#124; A Better Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-1042</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] to be loud, and apparently capture the hearts of some reporters, they certainly can&#8217;t seem to turn out big numbers:  I must admit, I have not darkened the door of the AC Transit Board of Directors like a good [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to be loud, and apparently capture the hearts of some reporters, they certainly can&#8217;t seem to turn out big numbers:  I must admit, I have not darkened the door of the AC Transit Board of Directors like a good [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jerry mandel</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/comment-page-1/#comment-1038</link>
		<dc:creator>jerry mandel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 20:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-1038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was a 71 yr old lifetime atheist in fair health until I rode my first Van Hool on the 51 line. Sure enough, I found God and improved my health. Now, when my bus approaches I pray my trip will be safe, and when I exit I drop to my knees and thank God all my bones and joints are ok. The more trips I took the harder I prayed. My dr. says my cholesterol has dropped 35 points since I started walking more. My medical bils are lower, too, except for my shrink who can&#039;t figure out the meaning of the nightmare when, on my way to heaven, Satan thrusts me back left and I reach for something to hold on to and it is not easy to get to, and just as I grab for it Satan suddenly jerks me front right. . . . Then I awake and thank God and Van Hool, too, for having body, at least, in perfect shape.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a 71 yr old lifetime atheist in fair health until I rode my first Van Hool on the 51 line. Sure enough, I found God and improved my health. Now, when my bus approaches I pray my trip will be safe, and when I exit I drop to my knees and thank God all my bones and joints are ok. The more trips I took the harder I prayed. My dr. says my cholesterol has dropped 35 points since I started walking more. My medical bils are lower, too, except for my shrink who can&#8217;t figure out the meaning of the nightmare when, on my way to heaven, Satan thrusts me back left and I reach for something to hold on to and it is not easy to get to, and just as I grab for it Satan suddenly jerks me front right. . . . Then I awake and thank God and Van Hool, too, for having body, at least, in perfect shape.</p>
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		<title>By: Inside Bay Area &#62; The Capricious Commuter &#62; busdinistas to rail against Van Hool hegemony</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/comment-page-1/#comment-1040</link>
		<dc:creator>Inside Bay Area &#62; The Capricious Commuter &#62; busdinistas to rail against Van Hool hegemony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 02:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-1040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] The controversy has set records on this blog. I really had no idea people could be so passionate about bus design and procurement. I guess that&#8217;s because I take a train to work most days, and can drive whenever that&#8217;s not convenient. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The controversy has set records on this blog. I really had no idea people could be so passionate about bus design and procurement. I guess that&#8217;s because I take a train to work most days, and can drive whenever that&#8217;s not convenient. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Frequent Amtrak Rider</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/comment-page-1/#comment-1039</link>
		<dc:creator>Frequent Amtrak Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-1039</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the clarification about the double deckers.  I knew I read something or other about them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification about the double deckers.  I knew I read something or other about them.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Krueger</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/comment-page-1/#comment-1037</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Krueger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-1037</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can understand how &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-4363&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Frequent Amtrak Rider&lt;/a&gt; got the idea that &quot;the double deckers in the UK were being phased out.&quot;  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-4458&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pete from the UK&lt;/a&gt; correctly states (and he should know!) that the double deckers are alive and well; however, it is true that the classically styled Routemaster buses &lt;em&gt;have&lt;/em&gt; been phased out in favor of newer, boxier low-floor models.

My wife and I happened to be on vacation in London on the last day of the Routemasters on Route 38, so we rode one of the buses from the beginning of the line in downtown London to the end of the line out in the suburbs.  We were amazed by all of the bus fans who turned out for the event, not only riding the buses but &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.classicbusdepot.com/bus-photos/83_0_1_0_C/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;taking pictures all along the route&lt;/a&gt;.  The Routemaster is, in most people&#039;s minds, &lt;em&gt;the&lt;/em&gt; classic London bus, so it was easy to understand the nostalgia.  The bus we rode had fabric seats with an interesting pattern (custom-made for London Transport, we later learned) and windows that cranked up and down like car windows.  The open platform in the rear has the same sort of appeal as the San Francisco cable cars, allowing the more daring passengers to hang on to a pole as the bus rumbles down the street.

The main problem with the high-floor Routemasters is that they are not wheelchair-accessible, which is why they were all withdrawn from regular service in 2005.  Other reasons cited for the withdrawal are that they require more expensive operation with a conductor (because there is no front door, the driver is not in a position to conduct fares) and that the open rear platform is a liability issue.  However, London Transport has retained two short tourist-oriented &quot;heritage&quot; lines that operate with Routemasters, so it is still possible to experience a nostalgic bit of transportation history in action.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can understand how <a href="http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-4363" rel="nofollow">Frequent Amtrak Rider</a> got the idea that &#8220;the double deckers in the UK were being phased out.&#8221;  <a href="http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-4458" rel="nofollow">Pete from the UK</a> correctly states (and he should know!) that the double deckers are alive and well; however, it is true that the classically styled Routemaster buses <em>have</em> been phased out in favor of newer, boxier low-floor models.</p>
<p>My wife and I happened to be on vacation in London on the last day of the Routemasters on Route 38, so we rode one of the buses from the beginning of the line in downtown London to the end of the line out in the suburbs.  We were amazed by all of the bus fans who turned out for the event, not only riding the buses but <a href="http://www.classicbusdepot.com/bus-photos/83_0_1_0_C/" rel="nofollow">taking pictures all along the route</a>.  The Routemaster is, in most people&#8217;s minds, <em>the</em> classic London bus, so it was easy to understand the nostalgia.  The bus we rode had fabric seats with an interesting pattern (custom-made for London Transport, we later learned) and windows that cranked up and down like car windows.  The open platform in the rear has the same sort of appeal as the San Francisco cable cars, allowing the more daring passengers to hang on to a pole as the bus rumbles down the street.</p>
<p>The main problem with the high-floor Routemasters is that they are not wheelchair-accessible, which is why they were all withdrawn from regular service in 2005.  Other reasons cited for the withdrawal are that they require more expensive operation with a conductor (because there is no front door, the driver is not in a position to conduct fares) and that the open rear platform is a liability issue.  However, London Transport has retained two short tourist-oriented &#8220;heritage&#8221; lines that operate with Routemasters, so it is still possible to experience a nostalgic bit of transportation history in action.</p>
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		<title>By: Capricious Commuter</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/comment-page-1/#comment-1036</link>
		<dc:creator>Capricious Commuter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-1036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Van Hool, where have you been all my life (or short career as a blogger)? This hitherto ignored issue has become the biggest thing to hit the blog since its inception (note to self: 1st anniversary coming up in April). Thanks to everyone who weighed in on this, especially those who have personal knowledge of how these things have changed AC Transit and, of course, Pete, for providing us with some comparative information. Hey, get enough people riled up about this and maybe you&#039;ll make a sale, or two or 50. What with AC Transit moving toward  wholesaling buses to other agencies, who knows where it will lead. I&#039;d just like to know where Van Hool is in this discussion. I&#039;m sure their reps would want to respond if only they were aware of the debate. On the other hand, when you have such a chummy relationship with a big agency like AC Transit, maybe it&#039;s better to keep quiet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Van Hool, where have you been all my life (or short career as a blogger)? This hitherto ignored issue has become the biggest thing to hit the blog since its inception (note to self: 1st anniversary coming up in April). Thanks to everyone who weighed in on this, especially those who have personal knowledge of how these things have changed AC Transit and, of course, Pete, for providing us with some comparative information. Hey, get enough people riled up about this and maybe you&#8217;ll make a sale, or two or 50. What with AC Transit moving toward  wholesaling buses to other agencies, who knows where it will lead. I&#8217;d just like to know where Van Hool is in this discussion. I&#8217;m sure their reps would want to respond if only they were aware of the debate. On the other hand, when you have such a chummy relationship with a big agency like AC Transit, maybe it&#8217;s better to keep quiet.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete (UK)</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/comment-page-1/#comment-1035</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete (UK)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-1035</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can asure you double deckers are not being phased out in the UK.  They are used on urban and busy interurban routes because they provide more seats (75 - 85), and take up less road space than an artic.  Brits don&#039;t like to stand you see.  Here are some London Pictures:
http://www.londonbusphotos.co.uk/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can asure you double deckers are not being phased out in the UK.  They are used on urban and busy interurban routes because they provide more seats (75 &#8211; 85), and take up less road space than an artic.  Brits don&#8217;t like to stand you see.  Here are some London Pictures:<br />
<a href="http://www.londonbusphotos.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.londonbusphotos.co.uk/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Frequent Amtrak Rider</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/comment-page-1/#comment-1034</link>
		<dc:creator>Frequent Amtrak Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 00:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/transportation/2007/01/31/van-who/#comment-1034</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great discussion.  I personally loathe the Van Hools but I don&#039;t ride AC regularly, only occasionally.   Dismissing the accessibillity issue is unfortunate.  Van Hools comply with ADA but that doesn&#039;t make them the best choice.   Buying buses because they are quieter and won&#039;t disturb the neighbors doesn&#039;t make a lot of sense.  The seats are tiny for anyone with a full figure.  Worst bus ride of my life was on a Van Hool from downtown Oakland to East Oakland.   Never do it again.  I&#039;ll keep BARTing and driving, thank you.  There&#039;s no way this bus design could lure me out my car.

Also, I thought the double deckers in the UK were being phased out.  There was something in the press a few months ago about it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion.  I personally loathe the Van Hools but I don&#8217;t ride AC regularly, only occasionally.   Dismissing the accessibillity issue is unfortunate.  Van Hools comply with ADA but that doesn&#8217;t make them the best choice.   Buying buses because they are quieter and won&#8217;t disturb the neighbors doesn&#8217;t make a lot of sense.  The seats are tiny for anyone with a full figure.  Worst bus ride of my life was on a Van Hool from downtown Oakland to East Oakland.   Never do it again.  I&#8217;ll keep BARTing and driving, thank you.  There&#8217;s no way this bus design could lure me out my car.</p>
<p>Also, I thought the double deckers in the UK were being phased out.  There was something in the press a few months ago about it.</p>
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