Comments on: a mile (or 20) in your shoes

By: murphstahoe

murphstahoe — Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:43:39 +0000

i understand the dublin train will empty out (getting pretty empty after
the embarcadero really). but when i instead hop on a pittsburgh train it’s
fairly empty past the embarcadero as well. Instead of 9 and 4, why not 8
and 5. The other issue (perhaps hard to solve with downstream connections)
is that the Dublin train shortly preceeds the Pittsburgh train by a few minutes – such
that the bulk of Daly City to Powell/Embarcadero traffic gets on the 4 car train. The
majority of riders on early Saturday, from my anecdotal observation – is from Daly City
to Powell to get to Chinatown, or to Embarcadero for the Farmer’s Market.

The other effect is that the airport train is 4 cars – making the “luggage effect” more
onerous.

By: Aaron Priven

Aaron Priven — Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:40:49 +0000

I stand corrected re: the additional crossover tracks. I think a dedicated commute-hour bike train between MacArthur and Embarcadero would be a good idea, but only if it could be done without impacting the rest of the service, which I’m pretty sure it could not given BART’s current infrastructure.

By: david vartanoff

david vartanoff — Sat, 24 Mar 2007 04:26:28 +0000

Why four carss to Dublin?–because they will be nearly empty once they leave Bayfair–maybe five riders per car. The other reason of course is that they are rarely full beyond Daly City either.

By: murphstahoe

murphstahoe — Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:29:18 +0000

First – Frequent Amtrak Commuter – please do not let a rotten apple spoil the whole basket. I will take the seats and spread out if the train is empty, if the train is full (rare when I am on BART) I try to be as inocuous as possible. That cyclist on BART is part of the solution – he’s not using up those precious parking spots that people whine about, and he’s not driving. There are definitely jerks with bikes, they are probably jerks when they are not using their bike as well. Last time I was hit, the driver said “You cyclists are always breaking the rules of the road”. I asked her “What rule did I just break? Running a green light? Please hit any cyclist you see run a red light for me, but don’t hit me because you saw someone else run one.”

Anyway, I always do my personal best to be courteous. Next topic.

How typical of BART to not know if the chicken came before the egg or vice-versa.
Cyclists make up only 5% of BART ridership – and that has a lot to do with the fact you
cannot use BART with your bike during rush hour! The cyclists on Caltrain are the most loyal riders Caltrain has – there are racks for 32 bikes on the majority of cars and unless it is piss pouring rain, the 7:59, 8:11, 8:44, and 8:59 trains will see cyclists turned away to await the next train. Build it, and they will come.

I typically only use BART to go to the East Bay on the weekend to ride (Why do they insist on running FOUR CAR trains to Dublin on Saturdays, and NINE CAR to Pittsburgh! Why not spread the load – I know the Pittsburgh trains are not filled, and if I want to go to Dublin I have to board at the Embarcadero instead of the Mission – the cars are too full to even imagine taking a bike on – then they empty out at Powell).

By: Frequent Amtrak Rider

Frequent Amtrak Rider — Tue, 20 Mar 2007 22:46:47 +0000

I hate to pick nits but having a bike tire rub against you is like having someone wipe their feet on your clothes. I’m really not anti bike but the bikers who insist on riding during the commute and sprawling all over the place give bikers a bad name.

It’s nice to hear from someone who is courteous. I’ve seen courteous bikers on BART, the ones who aren’t make the lasting impression.

By: Brian T

Brian T — Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:41:47 +0000

I concede the point that bikers can take up two seats with themselves and
their backpack. On fuller trains they should stand next to the door
opposite the station platform. That’s what usually I do, but then I think of
myself as more courteous than most.

Bikes on trains during rush hour shouldn’t even be an issue. They aren’t
allowed on trains in the peak direction (from/to SF). Though the Fremont/
Richmond trains can get pretty full.

In general, the tires are not “dirty” or encrusted with dirt and mud,
unless the rider was doing some serious off-roading right before getting
on the train. The seats are just as dirty when people put their feet on
them (but that’s another issue). You would have to get real cozy with a
bike to get grease off the chain. A solution to this, or another common
courtesy tactic, is to turn the bike around to face the chain side away
from the aisle.

By: Frequent Amtrak Rider

Frequent Amtrak Rider — Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:06:39 +0000

By the way, I’m talking about BART travel during the commute hours, not midday travel.

By: Frequent Amtrak Rider

Frequent Amtrak Rider — Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:05:29 +0000

There is a little bit of denial going on here about how bikers take up both disabled seats on BART cars for themselves and their bikes. I’ve even seen bikers take up to four seats, but that is not typical. Rolling luggage doesn’t compare to a bicycle. They just dont’ take up as much room. I’ve watched bikers get on trains, take up two seats with themselves, their bikes, then they unload their backpack on the seat next them. Anyone disabled would have to stand up because I’ve never seen a biker yield to disabled persons or seniors. I’m sure some have, I’ve never seen it.

Also, I’m not as likely to stand as close to a bike with a greasy chain as I would be to stand by another person. That’s why I maintain that bikes take up the room of three people. No one wants to cozy up to a bicycle. I’ve also had a bike fall on me when I was standing and bike wheels bump against me when I was sitting. I’d be less concerned about the bumping if bike wheels weren’t dirty.

People coming from the airport offer up the same problem as bikes. People get into the seats that have a pair facing each other and just take up the whole section with luggage and maybe two people.

I’m glad to hear that BART is looking at this issue about bikes and luggage. The luggage issue was raised when SFO was in the planning stages and BART didn’t want to deal with it. People should be able to bring bikes on BART but the trains need to have appropriate accommodations for them.

By: Doug Faunt

Doug Faunt — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:19:53 +0000

The Portland MAX streetcars have pegs a bit above my head height that allow hanging a bike by a wheel, so it takes much less floor space. I’ve seen people on BART actually hold their bikes vertically to make more space, but I personally don’t feel stable enough to keep me and the bike vertical, and falling over wouldn’t help matters at all.

Perhaps something like those hangers could be added to the bike space to allow more capacity.

Perhaps because I can and do stack my luggage vertically, even the extreme case of two large rolling pieces of luggage, a backpack and a briefcase seem to occupy less space than a bike. But I’ve also seen people occupy three seats with themselves and their luggage, on commute-hour trains- you know, the ones they don’t allow bikes on.

By: Capricious Commuter

Capricious Commuter — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:48:03 +0000

I just spoke to BART spokesman Linton Johnson about the bike issue, and he had this to say:
“We’re already in the process of configuring cars where weve removed some of the seats to make room for bikes,” and a bunch of those cars are already in circulation. The system is also in the process of redesigning cars to hold more people and find better ways to accommodate bikes and luggage.

As far as a bikes-only car, he said that cyclists only make up about 5 percent of BART ridership and “there arent that many to justify having an extra car at the end of each train just for bikes.” Contrast BART’s packed-to-the-gills ridership with Caltrain, which “all day carries just as many passengers as BART carries during two hours of the commute.”

I can’t attest to the average Caltrain trip, but I know that on Capitol Corridor’s big double-deckers there is lots of room downstairs for luggage and bikes in addition to the three-bike rack at one end of each car. The bike/luggage car, which I used this morning, usually has room for plenty of both when I ride, but I suspect that it can get pretty full on the earlier trains.