Fremont rejects Liberty Tree from Republican tea partiers
By Matt Artz
Thursday, July 2nd, 2009 at 4:26 pm in Uncategorized.
There will be a tea party at Lake Elizabeth starting at 3 p.m. July 4. This is the kind of tea party held by people who don’t like taxes and really don’t like the president.
Like all good parties this one will start with the pledge of allegiance followed by the national anthem. There will also be free tea. But don’t expect any fancy brands.
They wanted to donate a tree to Fremont, but that didn’t work out. Click here for their side of that story.
[You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.]
July 2nd, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Every town has its share of people like these. Here’s what they need to realize:
Freedom of speech does not mean that what you have to say has any validity.
July 2nd, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Eyescrustedshut, that is exactly why there are more rainbow rolls in Fremont than there are Rainbow trees.
July 3rd, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Eyes – just wanted to give you a positive message in an effort to counter-balance some of the negativity out there. You probably don’t need anybody to tell you this, but your ideas have value, your posts are rational and thoughtful, and I’m sure many of us appreciate them. In other words, noli nothis permittere te terere.
July 3rd, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Fremont Lifer,
Thanks for that, Good Guy. We sane people do need to stick together! Reading the comment section here could make one fear our ranks are shrinking! I appreciate the literal latin, too.
While we’re at it, you should know that I enjoy reading your erudite and logical comments. You have far more patience than I do.
July 3rd, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Are you two done? The only thing lacking from this kumbaya is bbox puking chardonnay into his KQED tote bag.
July 3rd, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Chard is for weenies.
July 4th, 2009 at 7:15 am
P.S. – lest anyone take offense – post #6 is purely in jest (just as I’m sure was M artzy’s )
A good buttery Chard with tons of Oak in it – while, passe’ in today’s “fruit forward” marketing environment – is pretty good stuff. . . . but my personal preference is always for one of those huge beefy cabs. . . . and I *AM* a huge supporter/fan and listener of KQED-FM – goodness knows, you gotta get your local AND critical news coverage SOMEPLACE . . . right Marty ?
July 6th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Hey, Matt – anyy plans for an update on how Fremont’s tea party went – how many attendees, who the speakers were, photos maybe, etc.
Good article about recent changes in the movement:
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/tea-parties-lose-steam-fringe-conspi
July 6th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
I attended the “Tea Party” in the Park on the fourth and all I saw there were Americans. When you refer to “every town has it’s share of people like these” you must be talking about people who believe in limited government a strong national defence and low taxes. It’s a shame that Fremont doesn’t have more of it’s share of people like these!
July 6th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Yes, it’s a shame we can’t populate Fremont with good Americans like you, John. All that baloney about
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me”,
Who thought of THAT? Probably some big-government, tax-and-spend libural.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
I had no idea who thought of that, Lifer. But from a quick inquiry it appears that the private sector solicited the poem along with other literary and art endeavors as part of a fund raising effort to build the Statue of Liberty pedestal.
In fact Joseph Pulitzer, a champion for the project was said to have criticized the rich for not paying enough, and the middle class for expecting the rich to pay for the whole thing. Kind of mimics the old Republican-Democrat divide in your head, doesn’t it?
July 6th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
John, would you mind telling us what an “American” looks like? I’d love to know.
July 6th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
He said nothing about what they look like.
July 6th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
No, but of course everyone at the event is an “american.” John’s comment implies something else, perhaps “Americans” as opposed to “foreigners.” Something was implied there, or else there would be no need to state the obvious since everyone there (and just about everyone in the tri-city area) is “american.”
July 7th, 2009 at 6:39 am
“…all I saw there were Americans,” makes it clear that John was able to identify those in attendance. I would like to know how he knows that. If you use the definition found in the dictionary they could be a citizen of the United States of America, a native or inhabitant of the Western Hemisphere, or an Indian of North or South America.
I also found it interesting that he used the British spelling of the word defense (defence).
July 7th, 2009 at 9:04 am
You guy’s are entertaining. Your posts read like notes passing between school girls. Fremont Lifer please don’t forget to take your Med’s and Doug you must be a teacher so I promise I’ll try to check my spelling closer. Marty you hang in there. I’ll stand by what I wrote you can make of it what you want.
July 7th, 2009 at 9:16 am
If you stand by your comment, please tell us what you meant by “I attended the “Tea Party” in the Park on the fourth and all I saw there were Americans.”
Weren’t they all Americans? How were the people there different than those you see every day here in the United States of America?
July 7th, 2009 at 9:42 am
John, no need to explain your remark. It spoke volumes.
July 7th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Yes, Doug – I think we already know all we need to know about John. Perhaps Walter can enlighten us on how the GOP views the Minuteman movement, particularly in light of the recent home invasion murders in Arizona.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hWlcz7J8GYrwmiZCR9zlkO9ucL2AD98RFM300
July 7th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Look at you fascists!
“Every town has its share of people like these.”
THAT was the bigoted statement.
How about this, Doug. The attendants looked like a fk’n rainbow, but they all want limited government a strong national defence and low taxes. Does that make you feel better?
July 7th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Isn’t it always the people whose own statements set new lows for human discourse who want to hold themselves out as the arbiters of reason and good taste regarding the posts of others? Perhaps protestations regarding the substantive arguments put forward by others would make more sense if they did were not delivered laced with profanity and the basest forms of baiting.
Somewhere someone must have done a study to determine why it is that the anonymity granted by the internet causes some people to take on personae that are ignorant, argumentative and obnoxious, while others choose to present as open, objective, and logical.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/print/9017938/Five_ways_to_defeat_blog_trolls_and_cyberstalkers
“Trolls
Essentially, a troll is a person who posts with the intent to insult and provoke others, Wood explains. The goal is to disrupt the normal traffic of a discussion group beyond repair. “A group is considered to be cohesively destroyed when two-thirds to three-quarters of the messages are a result of [trolls'] comments,” Wood explains. They often target new users, who are more likely to take offense, hence the term “troll” (as in “trolling” for newbies).
Many trolls are characterized by having an excess of free time and are probably lonely and seeking attention, Wood says. “They often see their own self-worth in relation to how much reaction they can provoke,” he says.
Woods categorizes trolls in the following ways:
Spamming troll: Posts to many newsgroups with the same verbatim post.
Kooks: A regular member of a forum who habitually drops comments that have no basis on the topic or even in reality.
Flamer: Does not contribute to the group except by making inflammatory comments.
Hit-and-runner: Stops in, make one or two posts and move on.
Psycho trolls: Has a psychological need to feel good by making others feel bad.”
July 7th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
Lifer, I post on this forum to assert my opinions. If you disagree with them I encourage you to reply to my posts directly.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:24 am
No response, Lifer? You can sure dish it out but cant take it.
I was really looking forward to your “open, objective, and logical” approach, or at least a continuation of the miniature McCarthy hearing you, Rick and Doug were having in regards to John’s comment.
Do you want to know what *I* find offensive, Lifer? I find it offensive that you accuse people you disagree with of being bigots and racists based on no other information than your own ignorance and bubble born prejudices.
July 8th, 2009 at 8:34 am
Well!Well! It appears that Fremont Lifer is upset! I’ve read his posts on this blog for many months and every time someone, who appears to be a Conservative a Republican or just a little right of center logs on Fremont Lifer and his band of vultures hammer them with ridicule and innuendo. Now he’s lecturing us on the value of civil political discourse because Marty called him a Fascist. Fremont Lifer I’ve read your stuff and I think Marty got it about right. But there’s one more thing that I’ve learned about you. You hid behind long paragraphs of leftist drivel punctuated by dubious links to left wing web sites, you really don’t have much to say.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/112239/internet_trolls_how_to_properly_handle.html?cat=17
“An internet “Troll” is basically someone who comes online to be a little terror. They act poorly, try to cause problems and just plain aggravate anything and everything that they come in contact with.
When these “trolls” come on to chat, they will immediately try to stir up the first amount of garbage that they can. They may say something that is rather racist or just plain ‘stupid’. These trolls are hoping to tick off the first person who reads it and start a fight. Why? Who can rightfully say, they could be some bored kid not being supervised and wanting to see what mischief they can get into before being banned. I will warn you right now, they may say things that will hit you personally – in fact, they may be counting on this probability. ”
————-
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/print/9017938/Five_ways_to_defeat_blog_trolls_and_cyberstalkers
“Five ways to defeat blog trolls
2. DFTT
This is one of the more important acronyms in the blog world, meaning, “Don’t feed the trolls.” “Just like in-person bullies, trolls feed off your reaction,” Tim says. “Under no circumstances should you acknowledge the behavior or repay it with anger or defensiveness. If you don’t react, they’ll get bored and go away.”"
July 8th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Come on F.L. – you gotta lighten up – - this jokin’ and joshin’ is also good for somebody’s career -
“The judges decribes Artz’s blog as “a lively chronicle of a local beat that takes the news seriously, but not itself.”
http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2009-06-04/article/33043?headline=Daily-Planet-Wins-Three-East-Bay-Press-Club-Awards
Dont you agree, M Arty and Doug ?
July 8th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
B – do you think it’s “light” to refer to people with whom you disagree as fascists? Is it joking to create a web page that makes blatantly false statements about a City Council candidate during an elction? Do raunchy limericks now pass as polite discourse?
I am aware that the internet is unregulated, and this site is basically unsupervised. Nevertheless, I come here seeking information and opinions which are different from my own; it’s the juvenile and insulting behavior that I object to. All I’m saying is, DFTT.
July 8th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Oh, Lifer. That’s not the least of it. Please review your post #19 in this thread.
Done reading it?
Good, because I’m going to use some of your own “open, objective, and logical” methods to present a point.
In the late 90′s, the ACLU defended NAMBLA, the National Man Boy Love Association’s right to publish material on how to coerce children to have sex with their members. The ACLU membership is comprised of left-leaning individuals. You are a left leaning individual, so therefore you like to sleep with underage boys.
Do you find that insulting?
We’ll, Lifer, perhaps Walter finds it insulting that you associate him with a racist murderer as you did in post #19.
July 8th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Regarding Lifer’s comment about the Minutemen… I support them 100% in their efforts to secure America’s border(s). I agree with them that U.S. Immigration laws need to be enforced and I do not support any form of amnesty for illegal aliens, which is the GOP’s platform position as well. I am also good friends with many of the Golden Gate Minutemen from the Fremont area, who are very active in the Alameda County Republican Party. I have nothing but good things to say about the Minutemen as individuals and as an organization.
What happened in Arizona was regretful, but I can not hold the entire organization responsible for the actions of a few and you shouldn’t either. To me, that’s just commonsense… but you can’t purchase that on isle four at Wal-mart.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Having been away from this site for a while, it was with a sinking feeling that I caught up today with some of the posts here. It would be difficult to make the case that the general level of discourse here has not experienced a continuous, generalized decline. There does appear to be a full-court press going on from certain quarters to drive out thoughtful, logical, fact-based, issues-driven posters through the use of abusive language, sarcasam, personal attacks, generalized harassment, and thinly disguised profanity. People who make fairly innocuous comments are slammed without justification by what I understand are now referred to as “trolls”.
Ideally, we could and would police ourselves but, given the internet environment in which we meet, the reality is that there is only one person who can enforce a baseline level of decorum. Whether he prefers to be called a site administrator, webmaster, or some other title, Matt Artz is the only person who has the ability to make the changes necessary to the “circling the drain” that is going on here. Matt, do you even read the comments that are posted to your site? Do terms of use exist and, if so, where are they posted? Ask yourself, Matt, is it your goal for this site to eventually reach “Mad Max” status, where only the loudest and most obnoxious voices prevail, because that is clearly the road we’re on. It would be a sad waste, since the enforcement of some simple rules could turn this around.
July 8th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
OK– F.L. – you make some good points, I might even agree with you.
Here’s something to consider – impressive are those who remain to discuss ideas, average are thoes who talk about things, and as for those who only talk about people . . . . my suggestion is move on.
Those who are preoccupied with personality and personal characteristics in the online world (think about it for a moment – we’re talking about a realm where identity is a facade) – - – those who are preoccupied with personality and personal characteristics reveal a motive unrelated to anything of substance.
Who are the significant groups that stand to gain by lathering up participants in this BLOG ?
July 9th, 2009 at 9:03 am
What kind of rules do you want? Which comments do you think were out of bounds? I’m hesitant to impose too many rules that I might not have time to fairly enforce.
July 9th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Marty -
How do you conclude that Lifer “..associates with a racist murderer as did in post #19.”
(see your post number 28)
When all Lifer did was to ask (in Post #19) -
“Perhaps Walter can enlighten us on how the GOP views the Minuteman movement, particularly in light of the recent home invasion murders in Arizona.”
This is a clear inquiry of opinion – which is very different from the claiming of an “association” of the individual and this organization that your statement asserts !
You seriously discredit your position and those of the institutions you claim to support with an emotionally charged and unsubstantiated claim as you make in #28.
July 9th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Bbox, Lifer’s question was rhetorical. “How often do you beat your wife”, etc.
And, box. Can you quit with the ‘discrediting my position’ business. I’m an anonymous poster on a marginal blog, and that’s the only position I am interested in protecting here.
Consider that I am somewhat a conservative in a predominantly liberal region. I was born in the BA, and will likely live in the BA until I cash out my retirement investments another state (but, I’m I young chap so don’t start planning my goodbye party yet).
The short of it -long gone are the days when I subject myself to debating politics with arms-length aquantances.
Coming from the right, you may as well tell them you’re a child molester. It’s simply not worth the stress, and it’s not worth the possibility of discrimination, which I have experienced first hand as a result. This is not to say that I have met many, many left leaning people who don’t fit this role. In fact most of them are reasonable, as most people are. But as a rule of thumb, I decide to take it elsewhere.
So, it’s friends or the internet.
Friends are a different story all together, and considering the natural abundance of libs over conservatives in this area you could imagine the battles that ensue after the drinks are consumed. The wit, and the language, the words you will hear coming out of the mouths of my good friends, a few JC teachers, E.E.s, Ph.D. researchers, unemployed deuche bags with no prospects but inexplicably sexy wives who adore them…
With a few course words under they’d send some of the old-time Propers around here who claim to blow in the gale of intelligent discourse into cardiac arrest.
THAT is good banter.
But, when the topic of politics comes up with most neighbors, colleagues, etc. I nod the head, dip the neck in a “yeah, but” way. I keep it non-confrontational and find myself acting as if I understand their point when in reality I think they’re an absolute misinformed moron for even suggesting it.
So, the internet is quite a convenient place for me to unwind a bit. Yes, there’s been a few instances of not knowing my audience at the TCB (the internet at large is an entirely looser place for some I may add).
Posts elsewhere that would have received LOL’s abound and topped with a reply even more raunchy have created here an apocalyptic cry for morality and sensible posting.
Children of lurking parents were even harmed. I felt horrible, yes I did.
But, maybe there’s thousands of Tri-City lurkers who are die hard Marty fans- South Park Conservatives if you will who pump their fists and grumble a hearty “f*&K yeah!” every time I post.
Perhaps the 3 or 4 TCB Propers who have a hissy fit every time things don’t go their way are not a representative sample but the ENTIRE sample.
I don’t know, box. I’m not all that interested in credibility when you have no idea who I really am. I’ll take my chances and get what I want out of it. I could be a troll or realist, that all depends on whether you agree with me or not (or are old enough to wear adult diapers).
But, I will say that this this is a place where I can say the things I only feel comfortable saying in the presence close friends, so feel lucky.
July 9th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
It *was* a simple observation and Marty, for whatever reason, was incapable of asserting a simple “Yes I did” or “No I didn’t” – - – - enough said.
I stand by my statement and observations of Marty’s cred which is seriously in question.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Oh, sorry there, Bbox. Let me remove all those complicated words for you:
“Bbox, Lifer’s question was rhetorical. “How often do you beat your wife”, etc.”
July 10th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
speculative on your part, Marty.
July 13th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Thank you, Walter, for your response regarding the Minutemen. First, I’d like to say that I do have some sympathy for your position. Most reasonable people who support groups of any type have it cross their mind occasionally what they would do if someone else in the group did something crazy that reflected badly the work of the group.
I see that Minutemen leaders are claiming that Ms. Forde headed a small organization that merely used the Minuteman name. Of course, the same could be said for any of the Minutemen groups, which of late have been splintering like old wood. Of the original Minutemen, there are now many local groups, each linked to the others in a plausibly deniable way. Any of these group members, if caught acting illegally, can be described by other Minutemen as “not a member” of the national organization, since in reality there is no formal national organization.
However, as recently as this January, Jim Gilchrist, co-founder of the Minuteman movement, defended Ms. Forde against more radical Minuteman members, saying “She is a stoic struggler who has chosen to put country, community, and a yearning for a civilized society ahead of avarice and self-glorifying ego. The Minuteman Project is proud to be a supporter of Shawna Forde’s Minutemen(women) American Defense (M.A.D).”
It appears that something in the current climate – the election of an African-American president, the economic downturn, the disorder in the GOP – is prompting a greater number of confused and dangerous Americans to act out in dangerous and sometimes illegal ways. Perhaps the problem is that the movement’s message is attractive to people with ulterior motives. Larger groups may attempt to patrol their membership for potentially problematic people, but they have no power to stop outliers like Forde from using the Minuteman name. As a local GOP Chairman, don’t you think that this nexus between the GOP and the Minutemen presents problems in growing the party?
Speaking of growing the party, I’d also be interested to know your position on the Fellowship Foundation, AKA The Family, who have been mentioned in the recent troubles of Senator Ensign and Governor Sanford.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jiza4LHuq8L26CGWJPa_n_RFK6vQD995VUM00
For those unfamiliar with The Family, an evangelical leader with a lifelong Family affiliation expressed his concerns with The Family’s cultisim, its rejection of the institutional church, and its lack of an organizational structure to provide accountability for Family leaders. Their current leader, Doug Coe, has described in his speeches a totalitarian idea of Christianity, and cited Hitler, Pol Pot, Osama bin Laden and Lenin as examples men who he believed understood the way power should be wielded. Since their membership is comprised of high-level GOP office-holders, it could come up in recruiting grassroots members.
Thanks again, Walter.
July 13th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Matt, I’m not going to try to micro-manage your site for you. You’re an adult, and you know what you want this site to be. You’re also the only person who can take responsibility for what happens here. In my opinion, lacking appropriate rules and supervision, the site is well on its way to becoming a bathroom wall. If that’s what you want, so be it, but it would be a shame.
As Justice Stewart said regarding the threshold of obscenity , “I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description . . . But I know it when I see it.” I don’t know what is out of bounds, but “I know it when I see it”, as do most reasonable people.
As my mother used to say, don’t get the puppy if you’re not willing to do what is required to take care of it. Start shoveling.
July 13th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Lifer, email me which posts you think go over the line. martz@bayareanewsgroup.com.
July 13th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Matt, If you find a post objectional could you forward it to me so I can have a frame of reference? Otherwise I assume this is Lifer’s way of targeting a poster rather than a post in particular.