Stark not concerned about town hall meetings

Congressman Pete Stark, D-Fremont, does not plan to cancel or change the format of three upcoming town hall meetings in light of demonstrations at similar forums nationwide in protest of Obama’s proposed health care reform. (Over the past week, other congressional leaders have received threats, called off their town hall meetings or switched to teleconferencing with their constituents to avoid a potential showdown.)

Stark chairs the Ways and Means Committee’s health subcommittee and helped draft major portions of Obama’s plan, which, he acknowledged, could make him a target for protesters. A staff member in his Fremont office said she expects that there will be security at the town hall meetings, even though neither Stark nor his office have received threats.

Saturday’s meetings are scheduled for the following times/locations:

* 9-10 a.m.: Fremont Senior Center, 40086 Paseo Padre Parkway, Fremont.

* 10:30-11:30 a.m.: San Leandro City Hall, 835 E. 14th St., San Leandro

* Noon-1 p.m.: Alameda City Hall, 2263 Santa Clara Ave., Alameda

“If all (the demonstrators) do is come and scream, what can I do? There’s no law against it. You just have to be patient and hope that everybody can be polite and maybe they’ll get some questions answered. Or maybe they can make a point about their belief of how the bill should be written,” said Stark, who has erupted into impassioned speech himself during public meetings.

Read more comments from the congressman in Thursday’s Argus.

Linh Tat


  1. 2 days ago was the first time I spoke directly with the Congressman since declaring my candidacy. I can assure everybody that I have seen with my own eyes he is working tirelessly on our issues. Evidence of it was visible on him. Yet, he remains in a jovial mood and stated the same things to me as he told linh up here. He intends to proceed, and not cave in like many Reps have.

  2. Ishan, don’t confuse the look of tireless dedication with godlessness.

  3. Couldn’t agree with you more, Marty.
    A joke of major proportion.

  4. I’d say Mr. Stark was unconcerned about Town Hall meetings because he is adapt at side-steping direct questions put to him, as witnessed in this morning’s Town Hall meeting at the Fremont Senior Citizens Center. Mr. Stark also loads up the room with his “stooges” who not only support his deceptions and out and out lies, even when citizens read from the proposed HR 3200 Health Care Reform Bill, but those same “stooges” tell citizens who ask real questions, to “Shut up”. This is the M.O. of our Congressman who today, as usual, joins in with those people shouting “shut Up” with his own insults and name calling of his constitutents.

    I was hoping that with the overwhelming response AGAINST the Health Care Reform bill, that we might, for once, get something besides lies and insults from Stark and his “Stooges”, but Alas, I was wrong.

    There were many empty seats at the TownHall Meeting, although hundreds of people waited outside to get in and get a turn at asking the Congressman why he not only supports the Health Care Reform bill, which BTW, he claims to have written and many in the room were asking, if he read what he claims to have written, but why are illegal aliens or foreign nationals eligibile for the same benefits as American tax payers? This is another question he danced around, but clearly stated that illegals aliens will be excluded from Nationalized health care. The room exploded in calling Stark a liar as a Veteran had just read from the proposed HR3200 bill and Stark refuted what the man had quoted.

    It appeared that the Obamabots were bused in and that the Democrapic machine had paid for signs they held up to block opposition voices within the meeting. Those people were some of the rudest people I have seen or heard, but I won’t turn THEM in as Obama has requested that THEY do for people who oppose his scam program of so-called Health Care Reform.

    Why are the Obamabots so angry? IMHO, because they were unsuccessful in helping to pass the so-called Fairness doctrine, which who have outlawed the opposition voices I heard today. And yes, those voices were angry, because they know the policiticans and their “stooges” are pissing on our heads and telling us it’s raining and we KNOW that is just one of their many lies.

    We already have the best health care in the world. If it needs to be tweaked, do it, don’t destroy it!

  5. uh, where are my comments that were written directly after Pete Stark’s TownHall Meeting Saturday Morning???? Apparently someone doesn’t believe in free speech or with the goal of a blog.

  6. Moderation by whom? Pete Stark and his “Stooges” or is the word “Stogges” offensive to them?

    I am offended by those “Stooges” and by Mr. Stark who was unable or unwilling to directly answer any of the questions put to him, even when people were repeatedly calling for him to “answer the question”. Film of today’s event will prove how little respect he has for his constitutents with his usual smug replies to them, for instance “IF you could read…………” NOT IF you WILL, but IF YOU COULD.

  7. Well said, Alice.

    Mr Stark support for government health care shows that he has little interest in improving the life of individual citizens of his district. He is much more interested in increasing the power of government over all of us, at our expense.

    This is the most appalling attempt at undermining our lives I have ever seen in my life. I am grateful that people have stepped up to these fascist bullies at town meetings here and elsewhere. I hope that we will be able to kick these tyrants out of office next year, and that it won’t be too late to restore our lives.

  8. Alice says – “We already have the best health care in the world.”

    What are the measures of effectiveness that you use to make this conclusion, Alice ?

    Certainly it cannot be the medical expense per capita, which in the U.S. is amongst the highest. Which MIGHT be justified IF other measures of treatment efficacy indicated higher-than-average patient recovery or long-term health – but, alas, that’s just not the case. Data confirms we spend significantly more and get less than many other developed nations.

    What is the basis for your claim ?

  9. Can’t people see they’re being led like sheeple to the slaughter? This is pure COMMUNISM.

    The enemy within are doing the same to this country, as they did in Germany, Europe, and other countries. They set the stage, cause dissension, bad health, and disease, get people hooked on credit, create debt, drug them out of their minds, makes them more amiable, easier to manipulate. Opened the gates to impoverished nations… I always thought Americans had some brains, can’t they see they’re being duped?

    I know there are some really concerned people, but there is a better way. Get well, naturally, don’t depend on unscrupulous, greedy doctors, and greedy insurance companies, and greedy lawyers, who all stir up the pot.

    If people demand that health care….why not we educate, train our own doctors, pay them a fair wage when they heal? We need people with a conscience in the medical field. Train with a medicine that heals instead of AMA medicine, that never heals, just puts a bandaid over the real health problems. Go holistic care, natural, the way God intended. AMA medicine is okay only in the emergency department, repairs, and such, but NOT disease. This is not a knock against some people in the health field that think they are doing right, this is a knock against the hierarchy in the AMA, FDA. Also, why isn’t the medical personnel seeing this problem?

    Ask your representatives, does the health care bill include alternative care? No, it won’t, because it’s not under the control of the AMA and the pharmacies. There is not one prescription drug that has healed anyone. The Health field is just a big business, at the expense of human life…it’s sinful, evil.

    I believe this bill is a way to eliminate the elderly, for more reasons, than one. It’s a way to control the population.

  10. Alice, there’s no need to bus in the “Obamabots”; we live here, and many of us have for a very long time. The last I heard, Alameda County (with the 7th highest population in the state) was 57% registered democrat, 16% republican, the widest differential in the state.

    If Matt took any comments off the site, they must have been doozies, because he hasn’t given any indication of having any past problems with obscenity and wingnuttery.

    Obama made it perfectly clear during the campaign that health care reform would be a high priority for him. It wasn’t a big secret. People voted for him, and for his platform. He is doing what he said that he would do. I know folks aren’t used to politicians who say what they’re going to do and then actually do it, but he will.

    All this baloney about socialisim and communisim is exactly what was rolled out years ago about social security, medicare, Head Start, even fluoridation. Apparently there will always be a certain percentage of the population who have to be dragged kicking and screaming into what is good for them and the country.

    As Bruce Bartlett, former senior policy analyst in the administration of Bush the younger, says,

    “In my opinion, conservative activists, who seem to believe that the louder they shout the more correct their beliefs must be, are less angry about Obama’s policies than they are about having lost the White House in 2008. They are primarily Republican Party hacks trying to overturn the election results, not representatives of a true grassroots revolt against liberal policies. If that were the case they would have been out demonstrating against the Medicare drug benefit, the Sarbanes-Oxley bill, and all the pork-barrel spending that Bush refused to veto.

    Until conservatives once again hold Republicans to the same standard they hold Democrats, they will have no credibility and deserve no respect. They can start building some by admitting to themselves that Bush caused many of the problems they are protesting.”


    In case y’all missed it, Obama explained clearly yesterday at his town hall in Colorado how we got here and why we have to fix it:

    “First, I want everybody to understand the source of our deficit, because if you don’t understand that, then my argument won’t make sense. When I walked into the White House, I had gift-wrapped, waiting for me at the door a $1.3 trillion deficit — $1.3 trillion. Now, I say that — and this is not, by the way, entirely the previous administration’s fault. The financial crisis was so bad that revenues plummeted and all this money was spent in making sure that the banking system did not completely collapse. So all the actions that have been taken — the bank bailout, the auto bailout, all that stuff — that did spike the deficit.

    But the problem actually is not that — you know, the extraordinary steps that we’ve taken over these last one or two years. The real problem is much longer. Even if we had had no fiscal crisis whatsoever, we have a structural deficit. We’re spending more money than we are taking in. We’ve been doing it for the last eight years. When we passed the prescription drug benefit for Medicare, by a Republican Congress, they didn’t pay for it. They didn’t want to raise taxes, but they wanted to get the benefit. That just was red ink. That just went into our structural deficit.

    When we fought the Iraq war, we made that decision. We didn’t pay for it. When we cut taxes on some of the wealthiest Americans, we did not compensate by making cuts in programs that were comparable. So what that has all added up to is, we’ve got a structural deficit that over the course of the next 10 years is about $9 trillion.

    Now, I say that because I just want everybody to understand, if we’re going to tackle that problem, the only way we can do it in an intelligent way is if we get control of Medicare and Medicaid spending in some realistic way. If we don’t do that — if we don’t do that, we can’t simply cut our way out of the problem or tax our way out of the problem.

    . . .

    So I just want everybody to understand, if you are a fiscal hawk, if you are — if you are a deficit hawk and you are tired of this crazy spending in Washington and you want to finally make sure that we are looking out for the next generation, then you, more than anybody, should want to reform the health care system — because if we don’t do it, we can’t solve that problem.”


  11. I tried to give careful thought to Louis’ concerns and ideas. There are, indeed, some very good points. Issues of holistic, natural care (for those who choose same) – are worthy discussions. Problems with our insurance-controlled health care system are of concern to all.

    For whatever reasons, Louis feels a need to mix emotional, socio/political rhethoric or just outright fear into the mix with some really good ideas.

    Louis suggests that a preponderance of our constituency has been “duped” into reliance on credit, drugs (good or bad ?), etc., in some kind of an organized attempt to control the populace.

    I personally find this kind of thinking, at the very least, ignorant of the intellect and responsibility exhibited by a majority of our populace; at worst it is paranoid and ultimately it is severely discrediting of the good ideas Louis appears to have.

    THis kind of banter may be someones idea of a curious way to encourage folks to participate in this BLOG – or even to pay attention to “me” – but it is for me, a very ineffective way to lend credibility to seeming good ideas.

  12. One of the points lost on some people is losing the liberty to “choose” the medical care, which if the government ran it, it would eliminate choice, per HR 3200.

    BBox231 You must be the wisest person ever seen on this blog or speaking to the issue of Health Care!!! /sarcasm……. I am suprised you have even lowered yourself to participate in blog comments, but then we wouldn’t know how superior you are, would we? YOU SHOULD BE A POLITICAN!

    If we didn’t already have the best health care in the world, why do people come here from everywhere in the world to get it? Sure, it’s not perfect, but no one is dying on the streets or in the bushes for lack of care, unless they have chosen not to go to a County run hospital or any hospital emergency room, or to a Preventative Care Resource that many hospitals, including Washington Hospital, offer.

    This is also about the economy, foreign nationals, self-responsibility as Lois has said, and a power grab by the Thugs in the White House. Why is it called Obamacare? It’s about Americans NOT Obama, isn’t it?

    It is a complicated issue, but the American people are not as stupid as you seem to think they are and they DO NOT Want government Health Care for whatever reason as evidenced by the many TownHall meetings held across the country. Americans have finally figured out they have been lied to and that does not change because they yell or because they are not as articulate as you seem to think you are. You remind me of the “know it all” (in his own mind) that was in line yesterday at the Senior Center. Also, Mister….I do believe it is Lois, NOT Louis! Oh No, You are not perfect!

  13. Alice, you are part of the problem. I do not think Pete Stark could have said anything to please you. You obviously went to the Town Hall Meeting wearing your “Far Right Attitude”.
    You have NO credibility.
    There are a lot of legitimate questions about health care reform and people like you do not want to address them. Rather, you would rather tell lies, use scare tactics (The Death Board“. Does the Republican Party school you in false propaganda .
    Are Fremont voters dumb enough to fall for your misinformation?

  14. and the same goes to you Lois, are Alice and you partners in False Propaganda, misinformation.

  15. Gosh, Alice –

    No one has claimed perfection here.

    There is nothing in HR3200 that mandates a private solution to those who wish to contract (and pay) for same.

    Interestingly, you haven’t addressed the issue I raised which was a concern for the mingling of paranoia and fear into what should be an intellectual discussion.

    Why is it that folks who are in opposition wish to throw such a healthy dose of fear and emotion into this discussion ?

    Oh – BTW – if you read my message closely – it was I who said that “…this kind of thinking, at the very least, ignorant of the intellect and responsibility exhibited by a majority of our populace…” and it was Louis that inferred that the populace was so stupid as to be duped with drugs and credit in a conspiracy to “..control the population..” – – – so your claim that “..American people are not as stupid as you seem to think they are ..” is an assertion without merit.

  16. To paraphrase a wise person I just heard speaking on the subject, the problem with the current health care reform debate is that those who are going to lose something as a result of health care reform know exactly what they’re going to lose, but the people who are going to gain from health care reform aren’t sure how it is going to help them.

    Where there is uncertainty, fear can creep in, particularly when that uncertainty is fanned by those who fear what they are going to lose. What we really have to fear are the consequences of not reforming health care. The present system is insupportable.

    The debate about health care reform is a good thing. When disagreements arise, let’s be sure we’re disagreeing about issues that are real, not misrepresentations that have not, in fact, been proposed.

  17. Thanks, PM – you summarize the two “fear” factions pretty well.

    There is a tendancy in these debates to give up. To allow those with extreme voices to silence the rest of us. And, therein lies the beginning of the end to our democracy – despite what those same extremist voices would suggest- IMHO.

  18. Well, Alice, people may not be dying on the streets or in the bushes as you mentioned, but that doesn’t mean that we don’t need serious health care reform.

    If you get sick and your health care insurance, which you thought was good, is capped at say $100,000, and the cost of your treatment exceeds that, and you have to go bankrupt trying to pay for the treatment that you need to stay alive, that’s a problem.

    If you have cancer and your health care insurance delays and denies treatment long enough so that your cancer metastasizes so instead of receiving treatment and living, you end up dying, that’s a problem.

    If you’re not feeling well but you put off going to the doctor because the best health care insurance you can get has a $10,000 deductible, so you end up dying from something that could easily have been treated if it had been caught early, that’s a problem.

    If you think you’re perfectly healthy when you get your health care insurance, but later on you get sick and your health insurance company denies you coverage for what you have now because they know now that you had a disease several years ago that you were unaware that you had (a pre-existing condition), that’s a problem.

    When someone who has no health care insurance is treated at a County hospital or Washington Hospital or at any local hospital, we all end up paying for that treatment either from the taxes we pay or through an increase in our premiums. Particularly in the case of County hospitals, who barely have the money to keep adequate staffing levels. The hospital does not absorb those costs; they pass them on to us, and that’s a problem.

    As someone I know who has worked for years in the health insurance industry says, insurance companies are, in his/her opinion, one of the lowest forms of life on the planet, preying on the legitimate needs of people for coverage, frustrating providers with labyrinthine regulations, denying coverage on any pretext, all the while reaping obscene profits; this situation cries out for re-organization and reform.

    As far as people coming to America for treatment, that does still happen, but the trend is starting to reverse:


    Finally, I must say I agree with B – you do lose credibility when you stray from arguing facts. B may remind you of someone you saw in line at the Senior Center, but he’s an individual just like the rest of us. To get respect you have to give it, so let’s all play nice as much as possible.

    BTW, Lois, nobody wants to eliminate the elderly or in any way cull the herd. Health care reform is about keeping people alive so they can keep voting, purchasing, paying insurance premiums and taxes.

  19. Matt, I know you’re on vacation, but I think both Alice and I and possibly some other posters would like to know what it is that causes some posts to be labeled “awaiting moderation”? It seems to happen sporadically. Is it triggered by the length of the post, the time since that person last posted, do you flag certain posters who must be screened, do the use of certain terms trigger modification, what exactly? I can see where the use of the term “moderation” could lead people to believe that the possibility exists for some editorial changes to take place. If any other posters already know the answer to this, please enlighten me/us. thanks.

  20. Thanks back, B. Yes, the problem can be that reason often tends to whisper while fear screams, but that’s no reason to give up. We are indeed fortunate to live in a country where all voices and opinions can be heard. Now if we could only perfect disagreeing without being disagreeable.

  21. Matt, I’d also like to know where my post, which was listed as “awaiting moderation” went? I don’t believe it was any longer than Alice’s post #5, and it didn’t contain anything obscene or inflammatory. What’s up?

  22. Both sides of this discussion might want to check out Joshua Holland’s article on Alternet about what would happen if the currently proposed health care reforms are adopted.


    A segment:

    “Regardless of your place of employment or the kind of coverage you have now, new regulations would take effect in 2010 that would go a long way toward curtailing the insurance companies’ worst abuses.

    Insurance companies could no longer deny coverage to people because they’ve had health problems in the past, nor could they charge hugely different rates for different groups of people (premiums could only vary by age, geography, tobacco use and family size).

    The House bill bans recissions — the insurance industry’s habitual practice of collecting premiums until someone gets sick, and then digging through their histories for an excuse to cancel coverage.
    Insurers wouldn’t be allowed to cancel an individual’s coverage for reasons other than failing to pay the premium.

    Insurers would no longer be permitted to impose annual or lifetime caps on benefits.

    Insurers that sell insufficient, cheapo plans that leave people vulnerable to medical crises would be required to disclose that fact to their customers.

    All insurers would be required to disclose how much of their spending is on health care and how much goes to costs like overhead, advertising, etc.

    The legislation (especially the Senate HELP bill) creates new tools for fighting insurance fraud and abuse.

    Understanding what’s actually contained in the legislation leads to an unavoidable conclusion about the anger we’ve seen in recent weeks: it’s doubtful that at anytime in the history of our nation have a group of people been so furiously opposed to something that would so obviously be an improvement over what they now have.”

    Alice, how do you know Bbox isn’t a politician? There’s a lot of anonymity on the net.

    Matt – how about designating somebody to monitor the site when you go on vacation, so people wouldn’t have to wait for their posts to be “moderated”? For all I know, this post will be “moderated” for hours/days too. Kind of puts the damper on a free discussion, not knowing who else has good points to make out there that are waiting to be blessed.

  23. Seems like the posts asking for clarification on modification don’t get modificated 😉 Why’s that, or will this post get hung up in modification?

  24. F.L –

    I’m not 100% certain – but, I *think* I’ve seen where if I post two messages back to back – – before the first is “approved” by moderator – the last post is the only one that appears in the BLOG.

    Like you – I was concerned about this technical glitch – but it’s happened frequently enough and under the exact same sequence of events that I’ve chalked it up to technical problems which are not under the control of a programmer analyst that wrote the script that runs this BLOG.

    That said – – – – I do not think the problem you observe is one of moderator “filtering”.

  25. bbox231 has no affiliation with current or present political posts.

    bbox231 is a taxpayer working paycheck to paycheck.

    bbox231 has no political aspirations and will not/has not ever run for poltiical office.

  26. Speaking of the House Ways and Means Committee, here’s a dose of reality…

    Members of Congress and their families currently receive health care through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) which allows Members of Congress to choose between 283 private health insurance plans.

    Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) proposed an amendment that would require all members of Congress and their staffs to enroll in the newly created public health insurance plan. His amendment passed by just one vote in the Senate Health Committee.

    In the House, Congressman Dean Heller (R-NV) offered a similar amendment and all 21 Democrats on the House Ways and Means Committee voted it down. Congressman Stark (as already mentioned) is a Member of the House Ways and Means Committee.

    If the public plan is so great, then Congressman Stark and other Members of Congress should be willing to forfeit their private coverage and join the millions of Americans who would be moved into the public plan.

  27. HBox 231, I’m hoping people will open their eyes. We need reform, but not the one that is offered presently. I’m hoping, wanting something better for Americans. I want a system that HEALS…and nothing less. I want alternative medicine offered, or we educate our own doctors to heal…truly heal.

    I do not trust the system. What is being offered is a form of COMMUNISM…you can’t deny it. What this reform is about is caring for illegal aliens. We can’t take in the world, and care for them.

  28. So, Louis – what treatment “heals” is a really interesting study. What is fascinating and distracting is that for some small percentage – any placebo can “heal”. And those that are “healed” by placebo will exhibit all signs of a cure. By any subjective and objective measure – the patient exhibit, in some number of instances, a “cure”.

    Lois is right, those with an ailment should be allowed to paricipate in the selection of their treatment. But should we as individuals be allowed unilateral and unlimited decision making over something for which we each turn to a larger social system to pay for ?

    Here’s a big part of the problem as I see it – since not one of us (in a majority of instances) can afford to pay for the treatment we require, the institution who IS paying – wants to have a say in the choice of treatment as well. And – THAT idea seems to be appropriate from my perspective.

    The question is – How do you strike a balance (efficiently and quickly) between the interests of the patient and the economic interest of whomever is paying for medical services ?

    Hypothetically, Louis – if I wanted to see a local witch doctor as treatment for a burst appendix, would you and all the contributors to my insurance plan agree to allow that to occur ? (Let’s just say that your premiums and the combined premiums of the larger population of plan participants is what pays for MY treatment)

    Would paying my (choice of ) witch doctor treatments be OK with you ? Suppose the witch doctor wanted to charge $3000 a visit – would that be OK ? Suppose that (some) patients swore by the efficacy of this (placebo) witch doctor. What maximum charge for burst appendix treatment services ( if any ) would you impose for witch doctor services ?

    These hypotheticals aren’t the ONLY problems with the current health system – I simply throw these on the table as something for you to consider and perhaps respond to.

    BTW – I took a couple of semesters of study in communism and I dont I understand your connection between a national health care offering (which would also stand alongside individual ability to subscribe to and pay for any form of health care insurance an individual wants) and “communism” – In what way do you conclude that this is “a form of communism”

    I agree that health care (and social security and many other taxpayer benefits) should not be bestowed on individuals who reside in our country illegally.

  29. The disconnected dialogue in this thread alone is reason enough for congress having waited for a bill before hosting these meetings. There’s really nothing to talk about beyond what we agree on -high cost and low access.

    Obama’s website and the 8 page pdf he presents do little to address specifics of his plan. Uprooting 15 % of the GDP deserves more than a pamphlet.

  30. Bbox231

    Personal responsibility for personal health. That’s the 21st century way. Proactive for health rather than reactive to disease. Disease is painful, activity-limiting and COSTLY.

    That’s why another route has to be taken. Ask yourself, who ever elected the AMA medical community to be our medical entity? I didn’t, did you? Do you feel like paying for people who are irresponsible with their health, and the health of illegal aliens? We will ultimately be paying for the world.

    We have to evaluate our own health. We are accustomed to focusing on disease care. Our usual perspective on health is to wait for disease to “strike” then try to combat it. Being proactive, this perspective on health is new to a lot of people. It’s not the perspective of most of the medical community. Most health care is designed to help people control symptoms in order to “get better” or “feel better.” We need the objective to help you understand how you can “be better.”

    For too many years, we, as a nation, have had a tendency to leave the responsibility of our health to others. The general attitude has been, “I’ll just do what I want and let the doctor fix it if something goes wrong” Our health care has been remedial. We wait until a problem crops up, then try to remedy it. We have proved that this system does not work.

    I worked for eight years in the medical field, and I saw some barbaric practices. I worked in two acute hospitals, and one convalescent home. I’ve had to watch young people die of cancer, when I know they don’t have to die. I had a 32 year old man with cancer, he had a family. When I walked into the room, he looked at me, and said I guess I’m going to die. I quickly left the room, and cried. I saw a woman, lose the flesh off her bones, because she said she didn’t know she had diabetes. I saw her legs and buttocks, it looks as though a shark had bit her. I could see her bones. I felt sick. She contacted cellulitus I saw a terminally ill man with cancer…looked no more than 40 years old, deprived of water, was on fluid restriction. I read in my report he would drink his own urine, because of the restriction, then his urinal was taken away. I felt sick inside. I went to the nurse, and told her it wasn’t right to deprive a person of water. She told me, give him water…so I did. Evidently, the man was near death, but was able to sit up in his bed, and beg for water. The man died a short time thereafter. Another instance of barbaric practice was when a steel rod was shoved down a man’s penis to break way so the nurse could put in a catheter. I saw it, and it made me sick. The look at that man’s face was heartbreaking. Several of us had to hold him down. He looked to be no more than 60 years old. He died a little while later. These people should not have suffered and died.

    We need a system that we heal ourselves. Of course, there will be a place for the medical community, regarding emergency care, broken bones, rips, tears, burns, and such, but for disease, which I suspect is the major costs of our health system, we need to take charge!

    We do not need the AMA, insurance companies to take more control of our lives, dipping into our bank accounts through government mandate. This is COMMUNISM. We will end up paying for the world, and their bad habits.

    We can take charge by simple things such as testing our own PH body fluids, alkaline/acid. Check eating the right foods for our blood type. Being active, not sedentary. Watch our emotions…you can’t separate the mind/body/spirit. Emotions can take a toll on one’s health.

    There are holistic clinics to fix those that won’t take charge of their health. I know of one in San Jose, called Choice Healing. They offer great services, BUT, the insurance companies don’t recognize them because they offer alternative medicine. The AMA, the insurance companies, the pharmaceutical companies, all have self interests. REMEMBER THE SICKER YOU ARE, the richer their PROFITS.

    REMEMBER, In politics, nothing happens by accident…

    Besides our taking more responsibility for our own health, we need Godly merchants of health.

  31. We need a government-run health care plan that anybody can join, not just the elderly. Every American should be forced to get insurance that meets minimum coverage requirements. Sliding scale enrollment fees should be based upon income and assets. Then we need to make members pay a significant but bearable share for every non-preventative service they receive. Private insurance can compete, and if they’re more efficient, they’ll beat the government program. Finally all the Republicans and Libertarians can then change their political philosophies when they realize that government usually does a much, much better job of providing essential services than for-profit enterprise.

  32. Jon,

    We need more individual responsibility. You want to be breast fed for the rest of your life. I don’t want to, nor do I want my future generations to pay for bad medicine, and other people’s bad behavior. There is a purpose for government, but they’re not needed here. They need to stay out of the health care. We need people with a conscience, and I don’t think the government has a conscience…follow the money trail.

    God warned us of man’s government…God was right as usual.

  33. Lois, first I’d like to say that I’m sorry that you have had such awful experiences in the health care system. I hope that sharing them with us here will make them easier for you to bear; I know that works sometimes.

    I don’t doubt that there are serious problems in the health care system. However, we can’t abandon the system because of those problems. There are problems with law enforcement, but we don’t do away with the police. There are problems with the educational system, but we don’t close the public schools. Instead, we work to improve those systems.

    You mention personal responsibility, which is a problem. I’ll grant you that life would be better all around if more people were personally responsible; for one thing, they would probably make a greater effort to have health insurance. Granted, some people can’t get insurance or can’t afford it, but there are also those who could afford it but who choose to spend their money in other ways, thinking that nothing bad will ever happen to them.

    The question, for me, becomes what do we do with people who, for whatever reason, find themselves sick or injured and uninsured?

    Do we just let them die at home or on the street? That’s pretty harsh.

    If we take them to the hospital, do we let them or their family go bankrupt paying out of pocket for the treatment they need to live?

    If they don’t have money to pay for treatment, do we let them die? If we treat them anyway, do we pass the cost of that treatment on to taxpayers if it’s a County hospital or to other policy holders if it’s not a County hospital?

    This is why we need universal health care – to get insurance for those who can’t get it now or who don’t think they’ll ever need it, and to eliminate the extra amount that is added onto all of our taxes and premiums to cover unrecoverable medical costs for the uninsured.

    You mention prevention; I don’t know if you were aware that prevention is part of the Obama plan:

    “Most important, we will require insurance companies to cover routine checkups, preventive care and screening tests like mammograms and colonoscopies. There’s no reason that we shouldn’t be catching diseases like breast cancer and prostate cancer on the front end. It makes sense, it saves lives and it can also save money.

    This is what reform is about.”


    It seems to me that acceptance of holistic alternative treatments has increased recently. Of course, it is up to individuals to decide if that is the treatment that works best for them.

    As far as God is concerned, which God are we talking about? Jehovah, Allah, Brahman, Tao, Yahweh, Elohim, Baghwan, Spirit – every religion has their own. Doesn’t God give us the intelligence to make scientific progress, and wouldn’t it be an insult to Him not to take advantage of the scientific and technological advances we have made?

  34. If we don’t need government in health care, what do we do with the VA?

    Also, regarding the money trail – that road leads to the insurance companies, doesn’t it?

  35. My sister has chronic pancreatitis that could kill her someday. Couldn’t work for years, no regular health care. Partially by managing her diet, she’s healed up some and is working again, but no coverage for pre-existing condition for months and months. (She was coached on the diet changes by a friend, a regular MD that has studied alternative treatments, so there’s one for you Lois 🙂

    Another friend has terminal cancer, but has to work full time to keep her coverage.

    In my own family we have a yearly fight with the insurance company about medication approval for my son, every year they force us to spend 2 months appealing their denial of coverage.

    Anyone of us who aren’t on Medicare are one lay-off notice or one serious illness away from bankruptcy. I had military medical coverage when I was a kid, as a parent I look back and I frankly miss the security it offered (though I don’t regret staying a civilian, long story).

    So I look at this ranting about “communism” and I have to laugh. How many of these people will refuse to take Medicare when they reach the age? I just hope the leaders in this country get the job done and set up a program that really covers people.

  36. Speaking of military coverage… I think it gives me some perspective on government involvement in health-care:

    My family got excellent treatment at Navy hospitals, first in Norfolk, then at Oak Knoll. This included several major surgeries over the years. When Oak Knoll closed, my parents were on Tri-Care, the military insurance for retirees who are not served by a base clinic or hospital. In my mother’s last years I managed her affairs, and I >never< had a problem dealing with Tri-Care.

    I’d take Tri-Care over my current insurer and not look back.

  37. Lois,

    It’s been a long time since I was breastfed. I pay a lot in taxes and a lot in health insurance. The former I can handle. The latter is idiotic. We need reform and we need it now.

    Now here’s a good question (thanks, Bruce): how many Republicans, “Constitutional” or otherwise, take advantage of government-run health care? I’m guessing a large number are on Medicare or use armed forces care.

  38. Fremont Lifer

    Good questions…depends on the individual. Simply put, if I were sick with a disease, until I was stabilized, I’d turn to holistic medicine, plus do my own healing at home. I’d seek a holistic clinic (Choice Healing in San Jose), acupuncture, and chiropractic…herbals. At home, I’d eat well according to the Eat Right for Your blood type“ book by D‘Adamo, juice, sleep well, do simple activities, avoid any stresses, as best as possible…and pray. Buy some PH paper 1-800- to check alkaline/acid in body. Take supplements, especially those in liquid or powder form.

    I have a video tape by Dr. Loraine Day about her bout with cancer. She knew that chemo and the other treatments damage the kidney and liver. She healed herself by natural methods…eating well, juicing. I have no idea what she did for body work. She’s a doctor, and she herself would not use AMA treatments for cancer…what does that tell you? My sister-in-law went through bouts of chemo. Today, her brain is fried, a few years after her treatments.

    Our bodies are cyclic. Our bodies are alkaline. The diets, for many years, most Americans eat…is acid. When our bodies are too acid, disease sets in. We need minerals/vitamins to feed our body. We are as a ball of electricity. Our body organ systems each have their own entity, but are not separate. You can’t separate the mind/body/spirit.

    This is a simple overview….Five Element correspondences in Chinese medicine. There are ascending and descending energy. Every body system – kidney, liver, heart, spleen/digestive, lungs….(the energy follows in that sequence). Each has a Yang helper bowel. Balance is what one wants to strive for. Each has a season, yin and yang time, emotion, sense organ, fluid, …Example….
    Kidneys (Yin): begins life and death,

    Season – Winter
    Yin organ time – 5 P.M. to 7 P.M.
    Yang organ – bladder
    Yang organ time – 3 PM to 5 PM
    Taste – salty
    Indicator – hair on head
    Activity – standing
    Emotion – Fear
    Climate – Cold
    Sense organ – ears/hearing
    Fluid – Urine
    Tissue fortified – bones

    I’ll not go into this too deep. For those interested check the book “A Web Without A Weaver” by Chaptuck, and The Herbal Healing Secrets from the Orient by L’Orange. The latter book is an easier read, and has a simple chart to read about the systems.
    In the book Fit For Life…They say are three cycles also that the person has to recognize.
    From 11:00AM to 7:00PM, we are to feed ourselves. (if a person wants to eat before 11:00, they should eat only fruit). The other two cycles, we should not eat…interferes with body functions.

    I say a “health” entity such as the AMA, that lets thousands of people suffer, and die, is EVIL, pure and simple. There is a better way. Why won’t Americans stand up and say no to AMA medicine, and fight for a health system that heals?

    None of us like to see people suffer, but turning to a medical dictatorship such as the AMA is the WRONG thing to do. An example, if a person has had chemo, and poisonous medicine, they have less chance to heal under the natural way because they’ve been burned internally. This is what happened to Steve McQueen and other well know peoples who have died…they went the AMA way first. They later tried to go the natural way, to no avail. All depends on the individual. Chemo and all that treatment does nothing to heal a person. The person healed themselves, the body wants to survive. The AMA strikes an emotional fear in you by telling you have cancer, which tears down the body, lowers the immunity.

    I am passionate about this subject, because I’ve seen too much suffering…

  39. Jon, and Bruce

    Take advantage of government run health care? I’m 70 years old, I’m FORCED INTO TAKING MEDICARE. Ever since I’ve been on Medicare, I pay more. I resent having to take Medicare. When I turned 65, the government automatically takes out Medicare premiums. I called them and said I did not want Medicare, because I have health insurance through my husband’s union. They said I had no choice. So I have to pay for my husband’s union insurance, and Medicare that I don’t want or need. My husband’s union insurance will not accept claims util I receive something from Medicare, and if they approve. This is RIDICULOUS. My choices were taken away.

    I approve of acupuncture, but because of Medicare and their cut, burn, drug medicine rule, Medicare will not pay. Thank God, I got a hold of a woman at my husband’s insurance, that okayed me for acupuncture without a denial from Medicare. The first lady I talked to said I had to wait until a denial from Medicare…That’s like waiting until hell freezes over. My persistence paid off.

    The problem is Americans don’t want to or forget to take care of themselves…they’ve been made to feel they must depend on a medical entity. The key is DON’T FORGET TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.

    I do admit Allopathy medicine has good EMERGENCY care, it is needed…but disease, no. The need for EMERGENCY care should be addressed and fairly.

  40. Lois: I realize you are unhappy with Medicare not covering the alternatives you believe in, and that you have your own approach. I don’t buy into your beliefs, but you have to do what you think works for you.

    You may find Medicare is costing more than you used to pay, but you may not always have access to your husbands plan, and I’m sure that without Medicare it would be costing you both a lot more as you get older.

    I also agree that we all would be healthier if we lived a better lifestyle – working on that myself, trying to outlive my father’s life-span.

    I don’t agree that cancer can be cured for most people by alternative therapies. In one particular case, my friend has tried all that, but she would have been dead 9 years ago without the bone marrow transplant she had 11 years ago, and her life is now extended by chemo. Some people have cancer programmed into their genes, and some are exposed to carcinogens just by walking around and breathing. Cancer happens in all families and all lifestyles, just bad luck in some cases.

    Most people want access to main stream medicine (My friend and my sister, for instance), and your frustration with main stream medicine has little relevance to someone who can’t afford to see a doctor or pay for needed medication. Sorry, but that is the way I see it. I wish you good health and success working the system 🙂

  41. Lois,

    I think that, should you get sick, you deserve care whether you are rich or poor, young or old. However, your situation is not nearly as independent as you seem to think. Premiums for the elderly are sky high since elder care is so expensive. The union pension plan cannot afford the full premiums so it must rely on Medicare. His and your contributions towards health care, both for medicare and the pension, are likely long spent, so your union pension plan is probably being subsidized by
    current workers. Your Medicare is definitely being subsidized by current workers.

    So if you don’t want to suck off the teat of society, if you don’t want to live the “Communist” life, then refuse your pension health plan and Medicare. Pay for it all out of pocket. Good luck finding a health insurance plan that will take you, let alone one that you can afford. The “Communist” method is what we had before Medicare, with elderly living without proper care, dying early and in misery. And when you get horribly sick, don’t be a Communist! Only take what you can personally pay for. I hope you’re rich.

    As for me, I prefer spreading the burden. I prefer lower premiums through universal coverage and reducing costs. Like you, I prefer preventative care, though I don’t buy into alternative care like you do. I think that, should you get sick, you deserve care whether you are rich or poor, young or old.

  42. Bruce,

    I pay dearly for my husband’s union insurance, I don’t need or want Medicare, but it is being forced on me. It’s been a hassle.

    The people you say have been healed by the AMA medicine, their bodies wanted to survive, saved themselves, the AMA medicine didn’t save them.

    I don’t want the AMA dictatorship telling me to whom I can and cannot see..and the government health plan not paying for what I choose. Ask yourself, why won’t they okay alternative medicine? I just imagine it’s because they know it works.

    I knew a woman friend that had a seven pound tumor. She did not want to go the AMA route of poison. She heard of a woman that was healed by another method. My friend and I visited this woman and her husband. This woman had been healed of cancer that was throughout her body. My friend decided to go to the Bio-Medical clinic in Mexico. She started their program, and in a time the tumor had shrank to the size of a pea. At that time, she found she had had cancer. Mexico does not talk the word, or says cancer (fear/stress hurts immunity). My friend changed her dietary habits completely. Made her food from scratch. Made her bread, ground the grains. Made it for 11 cents a loaf. This was years ago, she’s still alive.

    I wish your family, and friends, good health.

  43. Lois, I don’t think anyone is going to argue that you don’t have the right to utilize whatever health care methods you believe will benefit you. The problem is that we’re not designing a health care system for Lois, and it’s not likely that the population of the U.S. will choose to live their lives the way you believe they should, no matter how good your advice is.

    We’re trying to reform health care so that it will work for all people, including those who are irresponsible, who eat junk food, who drink too much, smoke, don’t exercise, drive too fast, don’t pay for insurance, don’t think they’ll ever get sick, are too young to even know about health insurance, or who believe that they’re adequately covered when, in fact, they are not.

    We could spend all day debating the relative merits of alternative medicine and traditional medicine, but that issue is not central to health care reform. We need to lower costs, increase availability, have portability, eliminate rescissions, and provide coverage for pre-existing conditions.

    By the way, regarding posts #28 and 31, none of the proposals currently on the table have anything in them that would provide health care coverage for illegal immigrants.


    Which begs the question, what do we do when someone who is here illegally gets sick?

  44. Lois,

    For what it’s worth, my grandfather, a long-time healthy eater and fit man, got cancer. He went wholeheartedly for alternative medicine because he did not like the side-effects of surgery, then ended up dying an unnecessary and excruciatingly painful death.

  45. Lois –

    You didnt respond to my questions – any of them.

  46. Jon,

    The issue I have in regards to national health care….

    The type of medicine is not a sound one for disease. The exception is emergency medicine.

    I don’t want the government making the citizenry pay for a medical dictatorship, a system that doesn’t heal. It also can pick and choose who will live or die.

    I feel this is evil at its core.

    This is nothing more than a road to communism. Why can’t Americans see this? Because they’re so trusting, they’ve been made to be dependent.

  47. Lois: Communism? Sorry, you’ve lost me. Please look up “Barney Frank” + “planet” on youtube.

    ‘Nuff Said

  48. Hbox231

    Good question….

    Becoming more responsible for one’s own health, will take time…I know it won’t happen in my lifetime. None of us can stand behind everyone, discipline them for their bad habits, or the lack of caring for themselves…. Perhaps if people knew they wouldn’t get care unless they absolutely TRIED to take care of themselves, I think people may rethink. But, in essence, this is what is going to happen with the health reform plan…let the older ones, who have been dependent on the AMA system, did not take more responsibility for their health, let them die….give them counseling before hand.

    As far as an appendix burst. First of all it can be prevented. This again, is using preventive medicine.

    We have to reverse this trend of being dependent on others for our health. Granted, we are up against it, when it comes to food supply, chemicals, electro magnetic fields, that weren’t around a few years back.

    Again, if there is to be a government run program, we should train/educate our doctors, only accept people with a conscience. Pay them a fair wage, pay them to HEAL. Keep the greedy doctors and insurance companies out of the mix. If we do this, we could fix the problem. Also, teach people on preventive care. Until that time, we continue to pay premiums. I don’t want a government mandated system, that once in place, will never try to improve, and people will continue to dependent on the government.

  49. Perry Masonry..

    By the way, I like your name…

    As far as illegals, I say have a contract with the country from which they come, bill the country for the medical bills. AND SHUT DOWN THE BORDERS!!

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