Health risks are high within one mile of rail yard
By Matt Artz
Saturday, January 15th, 2011 at 8:56 am in Uncategorized.
This was emailed to me late yesterday.
Tracking Harm: Health and Environmental Impacts of Rail Yards
3) … The California Air Resources Board (ARB) created land use guidelines that include “Avoid siting new sensitive land uses within 1000 feet of a service or maintenance yard.”12 The guidelines also stated that: “Within one mile of a rail yard, consider possible siting limitations and mitigation approaches.” Thus, the state agency recognizes that within one mile of a rail yard, the health risks are high. These guidelines should become mandatory – and should work in “both directions.” That means that a new rail yard should not be allowed to be sited within one mile of sensitive receptors.
http://hydra.usc.edu/scehsc/web/Conference%202007/Rail%20Issue%20Brief.pdf
[You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.]
January 15th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
” Kathy McDonald said…I don’t know that a railroad yard will be such a tremendous impact to us as residents”
What an absolute stupid thing to say.
I don’t know about the city officials, but if there were only a single railroad track that runs through Nummi then WHY are there 2 railroad bridges at Grimmer, 2 sets of tracks at both Warren and Kato ??????
January 15th, 2011 at 7:55 pm
I doubt UP doesn’t know about this or thinks it applies.
January 18th, 2011 at 10:23 am
Another example of the Fremont Mayor and City Councils, and Fred Diaz the City manager are INCOMPETENCE
January 18th, 2011 at 10:24 am
Incompetent
January 18th, 2011 at 10:45 am
As Roseanne Roseannadanna would say, it’s always something! If it’s not one thing, it’s another. Either they’re trying to build a baseball stadium near your house, bringing crime and traffic, or they’re building a freight yard, bringing diesel fumes and toxic chemicals. If they fight off the yard, which is a big if, then they’ll have to face something else.
January 18th, 2011 at 11:59 am
A switching yard w/multiple sidings (which already effectively exists in and around the existing NUMMI plot), does not a freight terminal make.
The fragmenting of the existing and proposed parcels would make a high-volume surface/rail terminal very inefficient.
West Oakland represents a terminus for rail, trucking *and* sea-borne freight which makes it an extreme and, thus, poor example of what Fremontians might expect.
Much more likely there’ll be increased humping activity and incremental sidings of idle rolling stock . . . but if there is any increase in trucking activities I’ll speculate it will not exceed that realized when NUMMI was running full steam.
January 18th, 2011 at 1:50 pm
My very unscientific and non-exact research, using Goggle Maps, concludes that there probably thousands of housing units (single-family, condos, apartments, and mobile homes) within a one-mile radius of each parcel (north of NUMMI/Tesla and south of NUMMI/Tesla, respectively). Additionally, there are at least two elementary schools (Warm Springs and Weibel). If UP insists on making this a rail yard, I would expect this matter to be tied up in the courts for a very long time.
January 18th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
SJ Mercury writer says we should embrace UP: http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_17128760?nclick_check=1
January 18th, 2011 at 5:32 pm
#1…If we’re in the business of giving away our prime real estate, why give it to baseball.”
-Kathy (Choo Choo) McDonald
We should also consider the “tremendous impact” this is going to have on sale of fortified wine when the railway yard becomes a hobo haven. Face it Kathy, if not for you and your “700 raged out bully mob” Fremont would be on the way to building baseball stadium …so much for jobs, tax revenue and civic pride.
Without a doubt the baseball stadium would have had a tremendous positive impact to Fremont. Wonder if the anti-baseball mob has any regrets?
January 18th, 2011 at 9:16 pm
Box #6 … there’ll be increased humping activity.
Yes, many will get railed. Hopefully not in the caboose.
January 19th, 2011 at 3:36 am
Having the A’s come town sounds pretty good right about now. Thanks all you Warm Springs CRY BABAIES enjoy the trains!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 19th, 2011 at 7:25 am
Wow!! you cry babies are still stuck on the ballpark.If anybody is to blame it’s the people who voted for backdoor dealing Bob W-ass-erman and his city counsel cronies.
January 19th, 2011 at 8:24 am
charlie, smalls, worble, You guys are in desperate need for THERAPY.
You seem to have a fixation on something that was never going to happen.
How about dealing with reality and do something, instead of constantly crying over the ballpark.
Become local activist, get out and make change!
January 19th, 2011 at 9:17 am
West if you read my post I have never been for the ballpark or W-ass-erman. this was a backdoor deal that W-ass-erman and his cronies tried to sneak past the people of Fremont without a VOTE.
January 19th, 2011 at 9:30 am
Worble, you are right, I apologize.
I wonder if people are upset enough for a recall of the Mayor and Council Members.
Seems as thou they love playing developer with the tax payers money
January 19th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
West, I think you’re biases lead you to believe one is an “activist” only if they fight with you in favor of your pet causes. Many of us are active in promoting our visions for Fremont, the state, country etc. An online presence is only one extension.
January 19th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
“Many of us are active in promoting our visions for Fremont, the state, country etc. An online presence is only one extension.”
Marty, besides sitting on this blog 24/7, how are you being active in Fremont, state, & country?
January 19th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
Thanks for asking, Robert. I am a member of a few advocacy groups and attend agency meetings here and there.
January 19th, 2011 at 6:54 pm
…and for someone who dutifuly replies to my posts within 20 minutes, you have little to say about time spent monitoring the TCB!
January 19th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
#13…West, isn’t your mantra “STOP WHINING” about the baseball stadium? Thanks to (your gang) Fremont didn’t get a baseball stadium but we are about to get a railway yard …so you and ( your gang) can take pride in hearing the train whistle WHINE for the betterment of Fremont. I suppose you would say this is preferable to a base stadium? In retrospect do you think (your gang) has any regrets? Again here’s what (your leader) Kathy (Choo Choo) McDonald recently had to say… “I knew that the railroads were here before I moved here, I don’t know that a railroad yard will be such a tremendous impact to us as residents. West I think it’s time for you and (your gang) look in the mirror and cry yourselves a river!
January 20th, 2011 at 4:31 am
Did I really think Baseball would have come here? No The A’s used Fremont to get what they really wanted and that is to move to the San Jose Market lets get real.
West I am sorry that you want to re-call everybody that sees the world in a different light. The fact of the matter is we all stuck with a rail yard and there is nothing the City staff can do about it like em or not.
January 20th, 2011 at 8:22 am
SMALLS,
Bingo, you get it. Lou Wolf was using Fremont as a Pawn, did you now that Lou Wolf owns a major hotel in San Jose. Plus property around Dirdon Station the future Stadium of the A’s
I am suprised Charlie, et al do not get it. Perhaps Charlie can landscape the rail road yard with Lemon Trees, the whine variety.
As far as out Mayor and City Counsel, my complaint is they are incompentent to run a city like Fremont!
January 20th, 2011 at 9:42 am
As I remember, Lew Wolfe purchased about $80 million worth of real estate surrounding the Auto Mall site. Quite an investment in a “pawn”.
West, when you’re ready to curb your emotions and use your brain, I’m ready to listen.
January 20th, 2011 at 10:08 am
Yes, Lew Wolf owns property around Auto Mall, He got it cheap and remember Lew Wolf is first and foemost a DEVELOPER or have you forgotten. I bet he makes a fortune off the land he owns at Auto Mall
January 20th, 2011 at 10:37 am
According to him he lost 30 mil in market value. I believe him. Nevertheless, nobody puts up that kind of money on a pawn.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
Wolff doesnt talk much about his net worth. .. .but, his partner John Fisher is worth (according to Forbes) about $1.8B.
SO – for the sake of discussion, let’s assume Lou has a comparable net worth – - $30Million as a percentage of $1.8Billion is 1.88%- – -
Putting these things in the context of the average Joe and Jane, who have an “average” net worth of $450k – — that $30Million represents as big a dent in Lou’s world as some orthodontia for little Susie Q . . . or around $8500 to you and I – - – the price of a used car or a semester at school . . .
Now, this is certainly nothing to sneeze at, but, remember that the “loss” Lou took is – like all real estate investments – ever changing in its value and likely to be recovered at some future point in time.
All of which is to say that the notion that $30M couldn’t have possibly been “..a pawn..” because of it’s relative economic significance, is simply ignorant of the economic stratosphere in which folks like Mr. Wolff reside.
BTW – news choppers were circling for the last hour or so . . . SOMETHING made the news . . . somewhere.
January 20th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
Damn calculator – RPN gets me every time –
. . . shoulda been 1.67%
Which would be $7500 to you and I.
January 20th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
Bbox and West why do you even respond to post #25 he can’t see past the smoke from his pipe. At least with U.P we won’t have to put up with all the drunks and scalpers and all the crime and other crap that comes with the ballpark. AND YES I’M VERY PROUD THAT I AND ALOT OF PEOPLE STOOD UP TO W-ASS-ERMAN AND HIS BACK DOOR DEALINGS. YAY NO BALLPARK IN FREMONT!!!
January 20th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
Bbox here’s the reason for the choppers.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/26561730/detail.html
January 20th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Wobble, you make me laugh. You just traded baseball for lung cancer. Something to certainly be proud of!
January 20th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
Might be true, Marty. . . . but – goodness – old news, dontcha think ??????
The story about rail yards (and choo choo trains) in and around Fremont and NUMMI are hardly “breaking” news – - – I would think that a seasoned Fremontian such as yourself would know that history.
Just contemplating the immediate NUMMI parcel for a moment – there are at least three separate “yards”, with associated sidings, rolling stock, and attendant activities in and around the NUMMI parcel at present.
The additional 160 acres purchased by UP, appears to (round numbers here) roughly double the existing space used for these same kinds of activities – that is IF -UP turns this all into active sidings . . .
What has been far more entertaining than the continued lack of involvement by our City management in these kinds of civic developments, has been a rather obvious attempt by someone or something to make dramatic this very well established and pre-existing Fremont condition.
Musta been a VERY slow news day/week/month.
January 20th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
Wow!!Marty you must be fortune teller can you look into your crystal ball and tell us when you will get cancer. You can and will get cancer from alot of other things also. You speak like you can see the future. Wow!! that’s some good stuff. Maybe we should change your name to knower of all. LIKE I SAID I’M VERY PROUD. HA HA
January 20th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
I can tell the future, Wobble. I see freight trains loading loud metal boxes on to diesel trucks all day and night at the parcels north and south of NUMMI.
Think of the bright side, none of that scalper crime… and the foam fingers littered about town.
January 20th, 2011 at 9:35 pm
Here’s another website with good info:
http://theimpactproject.org/
This organization is the author of a previously quoted study titled “Tracking Harm: Health and Environmental Impacts of Rail Yards”. Fremont ain’t the first to deal with this issue.
As for the A’s and Lew Wolff, water under the bridge. Time to move on. I don’t seem to recall who sold UP the land…
January 21st, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Charlie is right. Lew Wolf had already secured $500 million to spend on the Stadium. Alameda County approved the purchase of the land from NUMMI for several hundred million. MLB said that the A’s should move to Fremont. The city was just about to get a ballpark and have the entire NUMMI area renovated.
Then a few FCN members spoke at a council meeting and killed the entire project. Marty spoke in favor of it but was unable to stop the powerful forces of FCN. (That last part was a joke. Marty does not go out in public.)
January 21st, 2011 at 4:08 pm
“Then a few FCN members spoke at a council meeting and killed the entire project.” Wow, what influence these few people must yield! A mega-millionaire businessman with MLB approval, Alameda County approval, the $500M secured and the deal about to be signed, sealed and delivered; then the powerful FCN steps in and stops it dead in its tracks. Maybe these same few could use their power on the UP deal?
January 21st, 2011 at 6:46 pm
Well, the secret’s out – FCN is a dark cabal of working moms and dads, middle-class power brokers of varied age and ethnicity, who conspire to pull the strings of the rich and powerful by posting on blogs, showing up at public meetings and putting a few signs in their yards. As a group, they’re about as spooky as the PTA or a Little League meeting. Better be careful, one of them might be living right next door!
I don’t believe that the Alameda County Board of Supervisors ever approved any funding for land acquisition for the stadium complex. When I asked the Board members about it, shortly after the Council-produced conceptual plan was made public, those Board members who responded (a majority of the five members) stated that they were unaware of the conceptual plan and its assumption that Alameda County would foot the bill.
January 21st, 2011 at 7:35 pm
Fifty years from now, some people will still be whining about the ballpark.
The people who are not whining will be going to the ballpark on Bart, Next stop Dirdon Ball Park, San Jose
January 22nd, 2011 at 7:37 am
If any of you can PLEASE go visit the Oakland Rail Yard
and take a look at we have to look forward to. There are so many semi truck’s waiting for freight to be loaded or unloaded parked on the city streets. The oil stained streets and the trash all over the streets are amazing.
January 22nd, 2011 at 2:32 pm
I also am interested in the federal money wasted on investigating the development of NUMMI. Coupled with Solyndra, Fremont is becoming a case study in Obama’s wasteful economic recovery policies.
January 22nd, 2011 at 7:00 pm
#22 West …Thanks to YOU and your gang Fremont is already passed the point of no return. . Our fate was sealed when YOU and the (anti baseball gang) falsely WHINED & WHINED & WHINED on & on & on about how the ”greedy owners” and “overpaid cry-baby players” where going to be the ruination of our cities economic future when in truth revenues generated by professional baseball coming to Fremont would have benefited us all including greedy owners, overpaid cry-baby players and the REST OF THE CITIZENS OF FREMONT! So, I will ask you again…do you have any regets in your opposition to the stadium? In retrospect it would have been nice to have the jobs, tax revenue and civic pride for our community a professional sports franchise would bring. Instead we are getting a railroad yard full of toxic goo and broken ripple bottles. Admit it…the pooch has been screwed!
January 22nd, 2011 at 10:43 pm
I didn’t catch Lifer’s post downplaying the FCN role in all this. By god, after Wolfe bounced they projected themselves as THE political force in Fremont. They issued self important press releases on the Bacon and McDonald endorsements. In fact, McDonald’s council bid is all you have to consider to understand the delusions of grandeur emanating from those glorified stamp lickers.
We’ll never know how much impact the FCN had. Even if they had no impact, the fact remains that they fought a passionate and organized effort against the ballpark and got exactly what they wanted.
January 23rd, 2011 at 9:38 am
Marty, Charlie, Give it a break. Major league for Fremont is not possible. We all know that Fremont is not a Major League City.
San Jose is a Major League City, they will benefit from a baseball stadium downtown. Hell, Fremont does not even have a downtown, how could we have benefited, no , no , no please no do not give me that same old crap again, about how Fremont would have benefited.
How about you guys actually do something about Fremont, it is a mess now!
January 23rd, 2011 at 1:15 pm
West, I dont live in Fremont. I live in Niles. This rail yard problem is all yours.
January 23rd, 2011 at 8:37 pm
#43…Look! Look! Oh, look, I’ve spotted the loons!
West, you and your leaders (Choo Choo) McDonald/Vinnie and your gang should get together in some railroad yard and have a toast (may I suggest a fine fortified WHINE… Ripples a good choice) ankles deep in toxic goo to celebrate your gangs glorious victory over the evil (developers) who wanted to bring major leauge baseball to Fremont. Hot Damm… Fremont is about to get a switching yard! I guess you have NO regets? I agree this rail yard problem is all yours. Thank for all your good work!
January 24th, 2011 at 7:37 am
Charlie,Marty,Smalls, like I said your welcome. If you and your ballpark friends want to blame somebody blame your backdoor dealing mayor and the city council. If this project was brought to the people with a clear plan and a vote you might have your ballpark. FCN did not stop this project Lew used Fremont it was all just a dream so you guys can all wake up. IT doesn’t matter what happens to the space these three will always CRY FOR THE BALLPARK.
January 24th, 2011 at 8:40 am
Charlie, It is league, not leauge. I am tired of commenting on this subject, I have moved on!
January 24th, 2011 at 11:09 am
Interesting – Niles has apparently seceded from Fremont.
I never had the impression that FCN thought they were THE political force in town, just that they wanted to be A political influence in town. Any grassroots group has to find a middle ground that a majority of members can support. Taken as a group, I’ve never thought that FCN’s positions have been irrational – can’t say the same for some of the positions taken by those in charge at city hall.
I’ll be interested to see what position, if any, FCN takes on the rail yard situation.
January 24th, 2011 at 11:25 am
A FCN Press Release from 1/2010 follows. You can draw your own conclusion on how influential they thought they were at the time.
“NO MORE POLITICS AS USUAL IN FREMONT!”
Fremont, CA (Jan. 25, 2010) – The Fremont Citizens Network (FCN), a fast-growing grass roots organization (www.fremontcitizensnetwork.org), created as a forum to foster education, debate, and discussion about City-wide issues, announced a development that will change politics-as-usual in Fremont.
FCN President Kathy McDonald explained: “In light of recent events, including the City’s surprise expenditure of $100,000 of our tax dollars to prepare a sales pitch for Major League Baseball; the proposed near-quadrupling of the Redevelopment Fund cap during this historic recession; and the lack of proactive and comprehensive economic development outreach to the business community, we have concluded our efforts for City-wide reform will be more efficiently accomplished by directly engaging in the political process.”
By consensus, the leadership of the Fremont Citizens Network has decided to run two highly-organized and well-funded candidates for this Fall’s City Council elections.
“This will be the first time, in a long time, that Fremont will have viable candidates who will not blindly vote with the Mayor,” stated Mrs. McDonald.
The “talk on the streets” and blogs has also included the possibility of FCN placing an alternative land use proposal on the Fall ballot. If true, this would certainly shake up what many have complained about for years – that of an entrenched political machine, not serving the interests of ordinary Fremont citizens very well, according to the very diverse people of FCN.
The Fremont Citizens Network Steering Committee also announced it will continue to provide further documentation of several interrelated issues of vital importance to Fremont residents and taxpayers. FCN leadership has said it will reveal exactly how the government of Fremont prioritizes the spending of citizens’ tax dollars, promoting indiscriminate development, and diverting property taxes to the mysterious Redevelopment Fund. They, and others have feared this fund is often overused to essentially create “pet projects” for the City Council at the expense of services to residents and schools. In addition, FCN will post on its website (www.fremontcitizensnetwork.org) current academic research on the economics of sports stadiums built across the U.S. to expose the economic burden that they have become to their host cities.
“The City would prefer these facts get glossed over with a lot of fluff and hoopla that they think sells, but the increasingly inquisitive citizens of Fremont are wising up fast,” said Glenn Lee, FCN’s VP of Communications<. “We hope the media will stay tuned for all the facts that follow the fluff,” he added.
January 24th, 2011 at 11:27 am
I can’t think of one action item in that press release that came to fruition, so on further thought I have to agree that the FCN was/is harmless. Some would call it ineffectual.
January 24th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
Marty #50,
Are you talking about yourself Marty ?
I have to agree that Marty was/is harmless. Some would call it ineffectual.
January 24th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
Post #24 here lies one of the many problems that Fremont has. I live in Niles not Fremont HA HA I have news for you Niles people YOU LIVE IN FREMONT and the railroad tracks come right through Niles so it is also your problem. Marty you seem like a smart guy why not focus on the real problem (W-ASS-ERMAN, CITY COUNCIL) and stop putting the blame on other people.
January 24th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Fair enough, West. Take an inventory the successes of my positions verses those of the FCN, add the petulance of those who feel obligated to respond to me and you’ll find that I am pretty damn effective for one man.
January 25th, 2011 at 4:02 am
@Worble you really should go back and read my post and what i really said about baseball in Fremont. I would have rather seen a stadium or a another shopping center with the condo’s compared to a rail yard.
January 25th, 2011 at 6:40 am
#54 – it ain’t a matter of whether you get a rail yard OR something else – - you folks need to examine the activity that’s been going on all around the NUMMI perimeter (and throughout Fremont) for decades.
Several hundred acres of rail sidings, idle cars, and associated loading/off-loading activities have existed. In the NUMMI heyday – – this activitity was SIGNIFICANTLY greater than more recent history.
Recent acquisition will likely increase this activity – - – or not – since we dont know what the activity and development will include, speculation about what this means (along w/pretty pictures of the Roanoke, VA yard) do nothing except to fan the flames of . hmmmm. . normally, I’d call it “debate” but, that would infer a level of credibility that many participants herein do not seem interested in sustaining.
Maybe we can “discuss” this once our reporter and City Management get some solid understanding of what UP has planned – - as opposed to generic handouts which are non-specific to anything that might occur in Fremont.
Next non-issue please . . . .
January 25th, 2011 at 7:00 am
…that would infer a level of credibility that many participants herein, [especially myself] do not seem interested in sustaining
There, I corrected that for you, Mr Box.
January 25th, 2011 at 7:22 am
- and I am certain that BANG very much appreciates your efforts, Marty.
January 25th, 2011 at 7:54 am
Box, I have no idea what “BANG” is. But if you wrote it, it must be another brick laid upon the culmination of civil discourse.
January 25th, 2011 at 9:53 am
Marty, you are seriously deluded. You are nothing but a troll who uses rude and mean language to get people to argue with you. It’s sad that you have to resort to such behavior to get attention. In your twisted mind this is being ‘effective’.
Your just jealous because FCN did something real in Fremont politics while you can do nothing but rant on a bulletin board. Your behavior is so bad you can’t even come out in public and talk to people face to face. Sad, very sad.
January 25th, 2011 at 11:13 am
Piter, the FCN really didn’t do much other than collect an email list. Let’s give the back patting a rest.
Thanks for the fee psychoanalysis -I’m sorry we disagree, but that’s pretty much as deep as it gets, chap.
January 25th, 2011 at 11:46 am
I second Piter’s comments. Marty loves to antagonize folks.
January 25th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
FCN organized the Warm Springs residents and got about 1,000 people to come out and protest the ball park at Weibel. Another rally at city hall got about 800 people. You couldn’t get ONE person to come out to anything because you can’t show your face in public. FCN was very involved in the last election. One of the candidates they supported nearly got elected.
Whatever one thinks of FCN at least their out there trying to do what they think is best for Fremont. To claim that your doing something positive for Fremont by attacking everyone who posts here is ridiculous.
January 25th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
We’re both arguing two sides of this Piter. So, the FCN’s work did influence the fate of the ballpark? Can we just get a consensus so we can all move on?
Did the FCN have an effect or not? I say yes they were an important factor. Not the determining factor, but a big piece of the pie. And now that a rail yard will be installed in it’s place, those 1000 protesters owe the rest of Fremont an apology.
January 25th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
Piter and Robert, welcome to the club. Many of us have walked that path before. To our chagrin, you just can’t fix mean and obtuse. If anyone requires further proof, see what is posted in response to this.
January 25th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
Marty, you failed to mention the significance of the local retailers and employers that were opposed to Mr. Wolff’s plan as he pointed out in this article.
SF Gate – 2/25/2009
Oakland Athletics owner Lew Wolff said Tuesday he backed out of plans to move the team to Fremont because he was daunted by the opposition from local residents, retailers and employers.
Merchants at the adjacent Pacific Commons shopping center and officials at the nearby Nummi auto plant protested the plans, saying the increased congestion on game days would severely harm their businesses.
When the A’s considered another site, near the proposed Warm Springs BART extension, neighbors complained about the inconvenience of parking and traffic problems, as well as the potential for crime.
January 25th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
VOR – I said it before, but I don’t think mega-corporations should dictate the image of Fremont. I feel that Kohl’s and Lowes would have to make a few sacrifices to have access to 200,000 consumers.
My ultimate theme through this who debate is that a rail yard was exactly to be expected. It’s land next to an auto factory for christ’s sake. A ballpark was not ideal, but it was the only way anything interesting would ever be developed on that land, and thus should have been investigated. It may have turned out to be best for Fremont to pass.
But the FCN mob made sure a dialogue was never initiated. In that respect, it is satisfying that Bacon and McDonald lost the election and WS is getting a carbon belching rail yard. I will not apologize for that, as many of us warned that this was coming.
(I obviously realize the perceived irony in not wanting mega-corps dictating the image of Fremont while being open to Wolfe Corp coming in to develop. The key is being open to the discussion, not submitting to it).
January 25th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Marty is baiting you fellow bloggers, you should no better then go up against a Master Baiter
January 25th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
In my opinion, the project was dead when the land owners at Pacific Commons said no. Trying to continue with the ball park was a futile exercise that even Wolf got sick of quickly. FCN protested against a hastily conceived plan that was full of problems.
As for Kohl’s and Lowe’s, it is all Catellus’ land and they didn’t want to do it. Are you now arguing for eminent domain?
FCN owes no one an apology. You are buying (or pushing) the line that there was some utopian project just on the horizon that was stopped by the evil FCN. Please explain how things would have happened all for the better if FCN had never existed. Make sure to include the part about NUMMI happily giving the necessary land over to the city to build something they didn’t want right next to their factory.
You are caught in a blatant contradiction:
#50 – … “I have to agree that the FCN was/is harmless. Some would call it ineffectual.”
#63 – “Did the FCN have an effect or not? I say yes they were an important factor. Not the determining factor, but a big piece of the pie. … those 1000 protesters owe the rest of Fremont an apology.”
#66 – “But the FCN mob made sure a dialogue was never initiated.”
If FCN is ineffectual and harmless why do they owe Fremont an apology? If they were able to stop the dialogue all on their own that is pretty danged effective.
January 25th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
There’s another player in this story, the MLB sanctioned commission that was reviewing Oakland’s proposed new sites, the Fremont/NUMMI site and downtown San Jose. The commission never reached a decision. The Fremont/NUMMI proposal was on the table and MLB didn’t bite. They’re inability to make a decision is just as much of a factor in what went down after Toyota decided to shutter the plant. The FCN was one of many players in this saga. My personal opinion is they were not the force majuere that killed the deal.
January 25th, 2011 at 4:46 pm
Piter, I realize the contradiction. That’s what I meant when I said we’re arguing two sides of the issue. Just as you facetiously stated that…
Then a few FCN members spoke at a council meeting and killed the entire project.
…followed with your hailing of the Weibel protests as a tour de force.
Regardless, I think it is conceivable that a rail yard wouldn’t be in Warm Spring’s future had the FCN never existed. I obviously believe FCN was a major player, or I wouldn’t have started a blog critical of them.
January 25th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
Wonder if Marty get’s paid to sit on this blog 24/7? What do you think?
He’s talked about his living in Niles and that he has kids. So, is he a stay at home dad? Or, a paid lobbyist? What do you all think?
January 25th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
Thanks for admitting that your contradicting yourself. I never argued (except as a joke) that the FCN protests stopped the ballpark. My point was that FCN built a real movement of many Fremont citizens. I’m glad you agree that they are a ‘major player’ in Fremont politics.
You say “it is conceivable” that FCN is to blame for the railyard. Yet you can’t explain how the ball park idea would have worked because you know it was unworkable. Please tell us some of the details like how they would have acquired the land.
One thing I know for sure is that this discussion will not change anything in the real world. Your blog is a petty, vindictive rant. To think you have any influence over a single person is laughable. You bait people into arguments and somehow think that makes you important. That’s just pathetic.
I’ll leave you to be the boss around here. I’ve had my fun for now.
January 25th, 2011 at 7:35 pm
Well, thanks for playing then, Piter. Let’s take an inventory of this thread-
We both contradict our opinions on how influential the FCN was.
Both FCN candidates lost the election, Kathy got her ass handed to her, and her ego likely cost Vinnie the election.
The FCN in it;s present form is a half dozen housewives sharing an iMac.
There will be no ball park.
The risk of lung cancer for Warm Springs residents is about to increase by a magnitude.
And, I live in Niles, where all the redevelopment money has gone.
Cheers.
January 26th, 2011 at 8:43 am
Since you admit to being contradictory would you care to go back and tell us which of your statements were true and which were false? How can we trust anything you say if you admit to contradicting yourself?
You were the only one who contradicted himself. Can you give an example like the one below? (My post #35 was obviously sarcastic.)
#60 – “Piter, the FCN really didn’t do much other than collect an email list. Let’s give the back patting a rest.”
#70 – “I obviously believe FCN was a major player, or I wouldn’t have started a blog critical of them.”
The reason you were caught contradicting yourself is clear. You want to attack FCN anyway you can. You want to say they are weak and can’t do anything and also want to say they have done all sorts of bad things. For you being mean comes before keeping your story straight.
January 26th, 2011 at 9:32 am
Piter, you obviously don’t have much capacity upstairs. I’ll attempt this one more time for the sake of closure-
In post 35 you infer (with sarcasm!) that the FCN was harmless. Then in post 62 you infer that they were a force to be reckoned with.
We’re doing the same thing, chappy. The only difference is that like all the other hypocritical puds who’ve come before you, you only take issue with these argumentative caveats when they don’t work in your favor.
January 26th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
#47 …West, again do YOU have ANY REGRETS that Fremont is getting a RAILROAD YARD instead of a BALLPARK? Would you agree the FNC mob use intimidation to to get their way? Since you will not answer my questions maybe one of the 800 to 1,000 FNC mobsters would care to comment/answer? I am tired of YOU dodging the question. Fremont deserves an answer!
January 26th, 2011 at 10:06 pm
I started to respond to your questions and then realized I couldn’t since I didn’t qualify. There weren’t and aren’t any mobsters in FCN nor did FCN intimidate anybody.
January 26th, 2011 at 11:39 pm
#77 R BLUE.. Can you please answer the question? Are you saying you have NO REGRETS about opposing the ballpark in retrospect? The railway yard is most certainly the consequence of the ( FNC intimidation. You got your way and stopped the ballpark alright! Now Fremont is going to get the” tremendous impact” of toxic railway yard.
January 27th, 2011 at 7:10 am
The originally proposed location of the ballpark in Warm Springs, after the PacCommons deal fell apart, was on the vacant property sandwiched between I-680, Warm Springs Blvd. and S. Grimmer Blvd.
The NUMMI site was not in the plan. Toyota then announced the plant closure and COF came up with the alternate location for the stadium on the north corner of the NUMMI lot.
If the stadium had been built on the original WS site we could have wound up with both the ballpark AND the rail yard.
January 27th, 2011 at 8:29 am
I think the most hypocritical comments Here are by Marty. He spent over a year attacking Vinnie Bacon, Kathy McDonald, and FCN going as far as writing a blog about them. Now he says FCN is defunct and ineffective. Marty loves to argue to try to show how smart he is, but when opportunity presents itself (improv), he hides at home.
Truth be told – FCN is an interest group in town and has some relevance in local politics. People like Marty gave FCN too much power while simultaneously vilifying them. They were never that powerful, and they are not ineffective now.
January 27th, 2011 at 8:47 am
I cannot believe that when Fremont residents get together to protest something that is important to them, that they are attacked, called a mob.
I call it Democracy in action. I am so proud of what FCN did.
There are people who sit on there asses and complain, criticize and do not contribute a damned thing.
We all know who I am talking about.
The bitterness shown by some people, who supported the Ball Park, is borderline mental illness.
January 27th, 2011 at 8:53 am
I cannot believe that when … residents get together to protest something that is important to them, that they are attacked, called a mob. I call it Democracy in action.
What are your thoughts on the Tea Party?
January 27th, 2011 at 10:21 am
Sootless said: “The railway yard is most certainly the consequence of the FNC intimidation”
That’s a lot of non sequiturs in one sentence.
As VOR pointed out, the original WS ballpark land is NOT the land that UP bought from NUMMI.
Also, NUMMI opposed the original WS ballpark location, back when NUMMI was still making Toyotas, and saw a stadium traffic as incompatible with NUMMI’s operations.
Meanwhile, the funding for the ballpark (residential development at Pacific Commons) evaporated with the financial meltdown. The opposition from NUMMI and FCN was moot.
All of this provided convenient cover for Lew Wolff to pursue a San Jose ballpark, which is what he wanted in the first place.
Pretty much all of this was outside the control of Fremont government and Fremont residents. We were all just pawns in a much larger game.
Remember, Lew Wolff is a real estate developer. The stadiums are just a mechanism for convincing local governments to rezone his land in a way that increases its value.
January 27th, 2011 at 10:52 am
MikeTeeVee #83,
Very well put, but you have some idiots here that refuse to look at the facts, so it is not worth reponding to those people, with hate distorting there thinking, such a shame. I wonder if they even voted?
January 27th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
Didn’t read through all the comments, so I apologize if I’m being repetitive…
I was frustrated at FCN for opposing the ballpark. Their response was pretty much immediate after it was announced that the alternative Warm Springs ballpark site would become the preferred site. Still, I could somewhat understand where they were coming from. The ballpark was going to be in their backyard, not mine.
With UP setting up shop on the same site, we’re going to have lots more trains rolling through town and Fremont needs FCN to step up and oppose this project with the same, if not more, vigor as they opposed the ballpark. Seems like a no-brainer. The fact that they are taking a wait-and-see approach and their leader is saying she doesn’t see a problem with the railyard leaves me scratching my head. Putting the blame of the ballpark issue aside, the big question is why such a different response to the railyard? I am somehow not understanding the motivation of this group.
January 27th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
John10, the railyard is not on the same site as the ballpark proposal. The WS ballpark was going to be alongside 680, about 300 feet from the nearest house.
The new railyard is about half a mile away, the same distance as the existing railyard and factory. Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t?
Who would FCN complain to? The city is coming out against UP, but with no power to do anything about it.
January 27th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
The new railyard is about half a mile away
From the title of this blog post:
What could FNC do? Off the top of my head… How about organizing a protest? How about a story on the FCN website explaining the health hazards to local residents? How about at least expressing concern about the railyard when giving quotes to the press?
January 27th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
A very nice case study in how incomplete information masquerades as “news” and is fanned by emotional rants into a wonderfully blazing hot mechanism for generating increasing numbers of “eyeballs” and maybe a little Google Adsense revenue. . . .
In the meantime, our City fathers continue on unchallenged on multiple fronts.
Facts as to what is planned and what will occur in our community are largely non-existant. Involvement or lack of involvement by our civic leaders is largely ignored. Opinion, inflammatory commentary, and anecdote rule the dais.
Who could possibly benefit by a debate of such interminable duration ?
Who would benefit from the redirecting of thought away from certain facts (if there were any) to fears imagined and the calumniation of various discussion participants ?
January 27th, 2011 at 2:36 pm
Historically railroads have been impervious to municipal, county or even state complaints. They just point to their federal shield and claim government protection. I think FCN folks are intelligent enough, though some would disagree, to understand that. It would be, excuse the expression, like pissing into the wind. Could the federal government intervene? Possibly, and from what Martz has reported the COF is considering that move. It’s really the only card that can be played. UP holds a pretty good hand.
January 27th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
VOR #75, Mike #85, I believe the two of you are wrong.
I’m pasting a link from Marine Layer’s blog with a pic of Fremont’s conceptual plan. You will see that the ballpark was to be located at the corners of Grimmer and Fremont — precisely the same north lot UP just purchased.
http://newballpark.org/2010/01/10/fremonts-conceptual-plan/
You’ll find Matt’s map (pdf) linked below, where he described the land UP bought as the land within the blue borders north and south of NUMMI. It’s the same land.
http://www.fremont.gov/DocumentView.aspx?DID=3309
January 27th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
If there is one common theme among grass roots organizations, it’s that if a fight is going to be tough don’t bother. Especially when the issue at hand is something as trivial as the health of local residents. Maybe FCN disagrees with the CA air resource board?
January 27th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
Marty, It’s a sign of defeat when you have to resort to calling your opponent stupid. Real men stick to logic and reason. “not much capacity upstairs”, “hypocritical puds”? Why do you always have to be so mean and derogatory?
It’s not contradictory to say that the NUMMI site ball park project (especially the post-NUMMI plan) was doomed from the get go and that FCN became a significant player in Fremont politics.
I’m just happy to have you admit that you contradicted yourself. That totally discredits everything you write. When your only defense is “Well you did it too!” your really floundering. Your goal is simply to attack attack attack. If being hypocritical helps you attack more you have no problem being hypocritical.
Charley, I don’t have the time (or the interest) to address your question at length. Two quick points. 1) FCN has a constitutional right to express their opinion about a ball park. You and Marty both act like speaking out against your local government is a crime. I’m sure Marty would be up in arms if they tried to put something in Niles that would hurt his property values. 2) Your assuming that a ball park would have been good for Fremont’s economy. It’s quite possible that a ball park would have really hurt our city’s finances. There are many stories of ball parks becoming financial nightmares. (Have you ever heard of Mt. Davis? The county is still paying for that mess.)
January 27th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
Sorry Marty, but the site from Marine Layer is not the original location proposed. It was the still vacant lot east of Warm Springs Blvd. right next to I-680. That is why FCN got involved due the proximity to single family housing directly across the freeway. They even had a slide presentation up showing its location. When Toyota closed NUMMI Fred Diaz had city staff draw up a new proposal at the cost of $100K on a rush basis. It used property north of the NUMMI plant and that is the plot plan Marine Layer had up. There were actually several variations of the same piece. Gus Morrison had suggested this piece prior to Diaz’ proposal as a way of moving it farther away from housing and possibly appeasing FCN.
January 27th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Marty, re: Matt’s map. The original ballpark site is situated inside the yellow NUMMI Site Project Area. It is the vacant lot to the right of the BART station.
January 27th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
Piter, if that was a requisite for being a “real man”, then the Tri City Beat commentariat is filled with women (or fake men).
I’d say that a real man exhibits the same actions he expects from of others, and is man enough to admit when he has taken a misstep. I have succeeded at both of those concepts while you have failed miserably. In that respect, you fail not only to be a “real man”, but a human all together. More appropriately, a weasel. That is you.
January 27th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
VOR, I don’t remember the FCN contributing to the discussion of where within the NUMMI site the ballpark should be located. Rather, they just opposed the whole damn thing. Nor do I remember them backing off once it was slated for Fremont and Grimmer.
Nevertheless, MikeTV’s statement of the park being located “300 feet” from his home is and had always been fear-mongering fiction, and unfortunately was much of the basis on which the FCN was operating.
January 27th, 2011 at 5:00 pm
The basis for my original comments in #70, was if the ballpark had been built on the original site proposed for Warm Springs the UP rail yard was still a possibility. It was not a case of we get a rail yard or a ballpark. There could have been both based on the property originally considered for the stadium. It didn’t have anything to do with NUMMI land north or south.
January 27th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
NO Rail Yard Facility at NUMMI!!!! Sign the Petition!!!!
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/fc503874/petition.html
January 27th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Marty, I don’t live in Warm Springs, and I’m not a member of FCN.
I was responding to John10′s comment about the “same site” and why FCN might be responding differently to the ballpark on one site vs. the railyard on a different site.
I used the Google Maps Labs Distance Measurement Tool to see how far it was from the westernmost Warm Springs house across the freeway to the land where the WS stadium was originally proposed (shortly after the 2008 election). It’s about 300 feet.
I used the same tool to measure to the NUMMI property. It’s about a half mile.