Dont know where you got the idea I was a fan of the Niles improvement project. I do not believe I have come out in favor or against this project as of yet. Fundamentally, I’m not a fan. . . . and the more I look at the data, the less convinced I am that ANYTHING needs to be done. . . . . if I read the data correctly, I am betting that the margin of error on the analysis is greater than the difference between Niles Canyon and state-wide averages. . . . . but, my uncertainty on this point is precisely why I haven’t come out one way or the other.

Having said that, I am amused by those who want to generalize *ALL* “trucks” as “unsafe” in the canyon.

I think I have access to the same “data” you have.

Proponents of this project have supplied some information which indicates an accident rate ever so slightly worse than state-wide averages. Those same proponents have indicated to our local newspaper “reporter” that it is the “smaller” trucks (not the larger multi-axle semi vehicles) that contribute disproportionately to the rate of accidents in the canyon.

WHERE the substantiating data is for that statement, I dont know – but, as I have previously said – I’m going with the notion that Artz knows his source and has confirmed them as reliable before making his claim.

Ergo – the larger multi axle vehicles being eliminated from traffic in the canyon would do nothing to improve the relative “safety” as measured by Cal Trans.

P.S. – as loudly as you whine about the need for data, I still haven’t heard a rationalization as to why, based on what, you (or anyone else) could rationalize a ban of multi-axle semi trucks.

Of the two of us, I think *I’m* the one in this dialogue that’s much closer to a “do nothing” stance on this project – - – you on the other hand are suggesting a ban on all trucks over 9,000 lbs and I am simply (continuing) to ask “based on what ?”

There’s things I’d rather see our money spent on. But, when the opportunity to improve your local infrastructure arises, I say take it. Because that money is not coming back to you and I. They will spend it one way or another. That’s what they do.

You want it both ways:
1. The Niles Canyon roadwork should happen to increase safety. The road is unsafe as is.
2. Large vehicles should be allowed because they’re safe.

You have one way to move me away from my position:
1. Show quality statistics saying that passenger vehicles are the heart of the problem, not trucks. You’ve referred to such statistics in vague ways and sent me a bunch of links, but I found nothing. Now put up or shut up.

I’m also amused by your hypocrisy over government waste. This is clearly government throwing away tax money. Clearly, the government is working against the will of most people, which I think you dislike. Clearly the benefits of the widening are few but the environmental impact is massive. Make that last one is something you do like?

Commercial vehicles in CA are those “operated for hire” – which does *not” unilaterally include all rental vehicles where the operator is hauling their own stuff.

California DOT DOES require that any vehicle with a GVW of greater than 10k lbs be registered as a commercial vehicle and thus would be required to stop at a weigh station. There is a specific exclusion to this registration requirement if the vehicle is considered a pickup truck and EVEN IF the pickup has a GVW greater than 10k lbs.

http://dmv.ca.gov/commercial/cvra.htm

A quick look at the U-haul web site indicates that, of the large trucks they offer for rent, a pickup truck, their enclosed van, and even their 10′ box van would all come in under the 10k GVW limit and as such would not be required to be registered as a commercial vehicle. Their larger 14′ and 20′ vans exceed the 10k weight limit.

http://www.uhaul.com/Reservations/EquipmentDetail.aspx?model=DC

BTW for future reference, it’s GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) that is the determining factor here, Jon – - not the “empty weight” which you reference(7860 lbs).

Finally, I *do* think we’ve lost site of the original and important point which is that you would like to see all vehicles over a given weight classification banned from the canyon.

My question continues to be, on what basis would you prohibit large semi’s from using this public highway? According to the reported data, they have not been a contributor to safety concerns in the canyon, so, on what grounds do you tell these guys they can’t use this road ?

Constraining a right to use should only occur in the face of more significant alternative considerations – like safety. In the case of semi’s using the canyon, based on all of the discussion thus far, I’m not sure what that other tradeoff might be – other than someone’s personal preference.

The Caltrans link you gave sums it up nicely: “designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property”.

That means a Uhaul, UPS, and work truck would all fall under commercial. Pickup trucks do, too, most of the time. Either way, a commercial weight limit would probably be the best ban. A 14′ Uhaul comes in at 7860lbs empty. People could still drive their Hummer H1 through since they’re passenger vehicles.