It seems they, quite typically of them, overreacted to how foolishly they threw money at bad players by now playing way too hard a hardball with the good ones.

That said, in general, the latter is preferable. Just do it with some sense of class.

And, regarding JRich….firstly, the trade was the right move, as we’ll all see more and more as time goes on. At most, keeping JRich would have gotten the W’s beaten badly in the first round and a pick or two later. Who wants that? And really, who wanted to risk not being able to re-sign Monta and Dre?

But the main reason JRich perhaps talked poorly of his experience is because going into the offseason he was told or heard the team had no interest in trading him.

While it’s understandable that after all that emotional investment in the W’s JRich had dashed he’d be upset, the game demands, to get full value, that teams never suggest their trying to trade a guy…position of strength and/or value go down. JRich was cool to be momentarily upset, but ANY objective look at things could see why the trade was made. The team could not risk going into this offseason scrambling around to create the cap space to keep their two young studs, AND Jason played the position easiest to replace, both from what the W’s had already and what is most available league wide, SGs.

I know many of you more shortsighted fans love JRich. Believe it or not, i did too. But since we’re not the Yankees and there is this annoying thing called a cap, it had to be made.

As for Barnes, he is a journeyman. Cool cat, but thems are the facts.

As for Pietrus? I wouldn’t worry too much about the effect what Pietrus thinks about the W’s will have.

As for BD. This is one of those situations where if we could guaruntee ourselves a pretty decent replacement for BD, i’d go for it over the huge risk he’d be to resign. But, that’s unrealistic. Who can do what BD can do for us? Not many.

So, i love to keep him, just not for the kind of deal he’s going to want, specifically, the amount of years. He’s not the kind of guy who’s going to be worth his deal the last half of his deal if it’s for 6 years or something like that. If a player could actually be cool, FOR ONCE, and think about his happiness being linked to winning, and that he could win more if he took a 3 year deal, this would be the time for it.

Think of the team and yourself BD. You ARE getting older and you ARE injury prone and a huge, long deal for you really COULD cripple the team for a long time. (i realize the futility of this kind of thinking, just sayin.)

“i dont think ellis can be a franchise type of player. ellis is a good player like carmelo anthony or michael redd. he is not the franchise changing type like kobe or lebron.”

I completely share that view. Comparing his potential to Carmello is apt. He’s not there yet and he may never get there, but he’s not that far off. In today’s NBA you can’t let that caliber of talent walk.

As a “system” point guard he’d be pretty devastating. Monta on the Lakers or Spurs would be wicked, from the point of view of maximizing his abilities as a system point. That’s the crux of it right there. As a system point for another coach he’d light it up. Nobody wants to see someone with that ability, that much potential and that young leave, even if it means over paying a little bit to keep him in the fold. It’s not that everyone believes Monta is mini Kobe; it’s that losing Monta would be demoralizing to the Warriors franchise in a multitude of ways no matter where you think the ceiling is on his talent.

My last quibble his on his height. I say bunk on the listed stats. Face to face, the kid is 6’4″.

the biggest room for growth for monta is as a PG, which i dont see happening. i think the monta that we see is probably a conservative 85% of what monta ellis will be. i just dont see he will ever be good enough to be a full time PG.

depending on the next w’s coach, he could be a system PG. but if a coach needs a true PG, he’s not going to cut it. like i said, as a PG, he’s not even gilbert arenas caliber.

side note: monta is 22, will be 23. he can’t keep growing forever. he’s 6’3 and is going to be 190. i’ll give you 200 top. anything more is going to ruin his game. look at his frame, he’s pretty much filled.

Overall I don’t disagree with a lot of your assessment, but it would be a lot stronger if you had the facts on Monta’s size correct. Again, Monta is already 6’4 and in person looks to be more than the 190lbs you indicate he’d “top” out at and…he’s still growing. That skewers the nice profile a bit as he’s on the cusp of having the necessary size to man up on the very SG he’s not supposed to be big enough to defend. Other than that, a fairly good analysis although a bit condescending. I wasn’t aware basketball was a team sport, lol, thanks for the insight. (I’m guessing you didn’t really mean it that way, so no sweat).

I agree, he’s not, at this time, a franchise player and he most likely won’t ever quite get there. But to summarily dismiss the possibility is a bit shortsighted especially when you consider how rapidly he’s both, improved his skills and how much larger he is than when he was drafted. He’s come a long way in a short while. I’m not betting on superstardom yet, but he’s already an above average player at both the point and sg. Not too shabby for a guy without a position. Plenty of players have had wonderful careers and never fit the standard positions. With Monta it will always come down to his ability to defend and that is still a question mark. A smart coach will know how to use Monta to gain an advantage. The average coaches will only try to protect against his potential weaknesses.

Figuring out how good a player will be is a tough gig. Nobody is anywhere near perfect at it, and every team has draft busts. But when you have a player who has dramatically improved for two years running, the smart money is that he will continue to get better and better. It would be crazy frustrating to watch him become a top ten player in another uniform.

but basketball is a TEAM game, like the adidas commercial, it’s a game of five. it doesn’t matter how good an individual is, statistics wise, at the end of the day, it’s about wins. look at michael redd for an example. i’m knocking on ellis because of his impact to a team. can you positively say, the w’s can build around ellis and be a winning team.

there are questions with ellis. what position will ellis play? and look at his frame, he’ll top out at 190. he’ll never be strong and/or tall enough to hold off 2 guards in the nba. his size says he plays PG, but his skill sets and mentality say SG.

if he plays PG, he’s going to kill the team offensively. iffy handle, questionable vision, questionable playmaking ability, casual attitude w/ the ball, patience, scorer mentality. can he make plays for others and can he set up the offense? these aren’t skills that you can just “develop.” and really forcing him to play PG is going to take away his best asset. if he can’t even be a PG at the college level, how can he be a PG, full time, in the nba?

(side note: ellis beats ppl with his quickness. that’s why he struggles against quick guards like AI. he is not a penetrator. he doesnt beat ppl off the bounce like tony parker or chris paul. have you seen him weave through traffic? wreaking havoc with his penetration? what!?)

if he play SG, he’s going to hurt the team defensively and compromise the team personnel. how is going to defend the 2 spot? strong guards like the kobes and the brandon roys are going to post him up to death. then the lanky ones like kevin martins and mcgrady’s can shoot over him all day. then if you solve that by pairing him up with a big PG, well how many big PGs are good. and really how many true PGs are even big at all. w’s are lucky to have davis now. but there are more eric snows then there are the baron davis and the jason kidds. what happens when davis is gone? it hurts the team.

ellis is who he is. he’s a scorer and a good one at that. but just scoring isn’t going to help the team win. you have to look at the big picture and at the team as a whole. can ellis lead the team? can the w’s win with ellis manning the starting 1 or 2 spot? can the w’s find the guys that can mask ellis’ weaknesses? and how confident are you that ellis can develop the other parts of the game: handle, vision, playmaking, patience, decision making, etc? to some extent, we’ve said alot of the same things about j-rich, and how much has he improved?

the w’s are at a crossroad, in a sense, they are almost rebuilding. it’s more than just finding a scoring big men. davis is near the end of his career. so they need to figure out if having ellis is better for their long term future. to me, that depends on his contract. at 6-8mil, yes keep him. at 10-12mil, no. so if w’s can get rudy gay or derrick rose by trading ellis, i would do it, esp for derrick rose.

and i cant understand why some ppl, in this board and kawakami’s board, keep talking about ellis as if he’s the next best thing or a can’t miss prospect. to me, i just dont think he is. i dont think ellis can be a franchise type of player. ellis is a good player like carmelo anthony or michael redd. he is not the franchise changing type like kobe or lebron.

just look at the upcoming draft, no team is jumping around or thinking they can build a franchise around jerryd bayless.

Ellis is still a little on the lighter side, not doubt. He’s just not as “small” as I keep seeing him listed on various forums/blogs. Every time I see another poster dismiss Ellis because he’s “only” 6’2”, 180 it makes me roll my eyes. He may never be a 6’6” 240 rock but the playing size he’ll reach by the time he’s 24 of 6’4” 220 he’ll be more than large/strong/quick enough to give most shooting guards fits. Guys like Jamison hurt teams not because they don’t have position but because they don’t play defense. If Monta has a primary limitation to how valuable he can be it’s his defense not his lack of supernatural point guard instincts.

His second season he started playing ball hawking D and making a point of trying to shut down the drive. His weakness at the time was allowing everyone to take him down low and abuse him. Last season he’s made a point of closing off post ups before they happen and overcompensating against bigger guys that look to drive. Unfortunately lost in his current defensive mindset is the attention to closing out of perimeter shooters (Rumor is he’s also been coached to play the boards by lagging off shooters but for now I’ll blame this one on Monta). Because of this, every Tom, Dick and Harry knows they can shoot over him without being challenged.

On the bright side is, that’s the easiest element of his defense to fix. Monta playing just better than average D coupled with his burgeoning offensive prowess is going to be a match up nightmare for opposing coaches even if he is a tad smaller than the average off guard. Where others see only limitations (and I clearly do see them, I was one of the first last year to harp on his D when he started exploding for 30 point games), I focus on the opportunities for his skills to be used for multiple advantages. But I could be wrong, I once thought Marcus Liberty would be the shnizzle.

Hey, can we find out own David West, Paul Millsap, Ronnie Turiaf diamond in the rough? I know, I know Monta and Biedrins were a great finds and Wright/ Belinelli could end up being almost as good but damn, it’s been a few years ya know? We have to do better than Taft, Digou, O’Bryant etc. David West may be a pompous A-Hole but he can be a punk on my team any day because he brings it. It’s funny how often winning and arrogant go hand in hand. I’m not saying it’s the most desirable character trait, just noting the trend.

In honor of this year’s crop of players too full of themselves to respect anyone around them but the guy in the mirror, I give you the 2008 NBA All Attitude Team:

G Chris Paul
G Kobe Bryant
F David West
F Carlos Boozer
C Tyson Chandler
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Coach: Byron Scott

I don’t think they are supposed to be talking about that because it is against league rules. I think they can only talk extension at this point. I think. I’m not sure. But July 1 is when they can get into those talks, if Baron opts out on June 30. I could be wrong. Will find out later and report. Will they still talk about it, privately? Of course. Who wouldn’t? If Baron opts out, you know they have a deal in place, because he’s not walking away from $17 million.

JustPuked,

Monta has definitely gotten bigger. He even looks stronger in person. He is visibly taller than Baron now. He’s still light, which is what people mean when they say small. He’s a feather compared to the other body’s. But he’s stronger, which really shows in his ability to finish.