Move Over Monta?

An interesting debate arose out of Steph Curry’s historic performance against the disgusting Los Angeles Clippers. You know the numbers by now: 36 point, 13 assists, rebounds.

Curry is the first Warriors rookie to post a triple-double since Chris Webber in 1993. He was the first NBA rookie to post at least 30/10/10 since Kevin Johnson in 1988. He was only the sixth rookie ever to post at least 35/10/10 – the other five being Jason Kidd, Michael Jordan, Jerry West, Oscar Roberton and Elgin Baylor.

The Warriors scored 132 points, tied a season-high with 36 assists, set a season-high with 62 percent shooting, including a season-high 13 3-pointers (7 by Curry, 3 each by the Anthonys – Morrow and Tolliver). Of course, all of these numbers are against a woeful Clippers team, and many of them came when they game was out of hand. Still, it is hard to notice the Warriors’ offense just look more productive and efficient without star guard Monta Ellis.

For the record, I DO NOT believe the Warriors are better without Ellis. I DO NOT believe the stats that show the Warriors are more efficient offensively without Ellis, considering the Warriors have hardly been without Ellis and the statistics don’t account for the opposing defense’s ability or effort. NBA players, and teams game plans, ramp up for big challenges against noteworthy players. Conversely, players relax when all they have to do is contain third, fourth and fifth-best players.

But what is undeniable, the Warriors are inconsistently efficient when Ellis is there, and not as potent offensively as they like to claim. And when he’s not, the ball movement is better, there are more open looks and the pace is faster.

What seems to be apparent is that the Warriors’ offense needs to transition from Ellis being the facilitator to Curry being the facilitator.

RONNY TURIAF (after the game on the offensive performance): “Just a bunch of guys trying to play for each other. It was an amazing experience. … That’s what you call a team effort. It was cool. It was fun.”

No one said it Wednesday — in fact, they went out of their way to not say it — but the offense runs better without Ellis or Maggette than it does. But I don’t think that’s the fault of Ellis and Maggette. I think this is about philosophy and rotation.

Ellis is the most-talented scorer on the team. Maggette is right behind him. The Warriors’ offense is built around those two. But the manner in which they use them is to give them the ball, have them create, and have other guys move around them to create alternative options.

Whether it’s Ellis or Maggette, the Warriors are primarily isolations, pick-and-rolls and post-ups. The problem with going through them, having them create the plays, is their strength is in creating offense for themselves, not for others. They usually pass only after their opportunity for a shot has been thwarted. In Ellis’ case, that takes some pretty stern defense, because he can get his shot off and convert well in traffic.

The whole process just promotes standing around, it promotes stagnation. What’s more, it increases the degree of difficulty.

What you saw Monday, with the ball in Curry’s hands, is the ball being passed up the floor, instead of Ellis or Maggette coasting, trying to set up a quick burst by their defender. What you saw is the hockey assist, where one pass was made not to get the assist, but to cause the defense to react, which opens up another pass (Keith Smart is always preaching about how the more times you move the ball, the higher the percentages go up for the offense). You saw other guys getting touches early and often, developing a rhythm and confidence.

How many times have you seen Morrow or Watson go minutes without touching the ball, so when they get it they jack it up knowing its not coming back? Wednesday, Morrow was able to develop a rhythm, Watson got into the distributing end and took only smart shots (he was 5-for-6). Turiaf got a lot of touches.

This doesn’t happen often enough when the Warriors are relying on Ellis and Maggette to go one-on-one or one-on-two 75 percent of the time. Check out this Q&A with Curry. You gotta read between his answers, but you get the sense he knows what’s best, but he will never disrespect his vets.

How different is your role when they’re out?

CURRY: “I have the ball in my hands a lot more. That allows me to make more plays for myself and for my teammates.”

“What got lost in my performance was Tolliver with 29 and C.J. and Anthony Morrow playing well. Even Ronny. He was a distributor as much as I was, getting the ball to the open man, dumping it down and finding the guys on the perimeter.”

Does a game like this show you maybe what this team needs to do more of when Ellis and Maggette are back?

CURRY: “I mean, yeah. They play their style. And you’ve got to cater to that. But as a team, you can always move the ball, you can always find the open guy. That’s just good basketball.”

“I think when we come back on Tuesday, we’ll watch film on how we played this game and try to mimic that against the Lakers.”

The stats are that you are way better offensively when Monta’ s not playing. Any reason you can think of for that?

CURRY: “I’m not sure. I mean, he averages… he gets his numbers up. The ball’s in his hands a lot, so he needs that to be productive.”

“So I don’t know, when he’s out, everybody has to pitch in. There’s just that feeling. Even though we had 7 players, everybody’s got to work together. It’s just that thing, where everybody keys in Monta a lot because they know how great of a player he is. So when he’s out, everybody has a chance to make plays.”

You talked about catering to Ellis and Maggette’s style. But do they need to maybe cater a little bit to what you guys did tonight?

CURRY: “No. I mean, that’s why they’re the players that they are. They’re All-Stars in my book. For us, we have to work around them. They’re going to get their touches, get their shots, and we have to figure out how to be productive around them.”

“They’re not going to be selfish ballhogs trying to jack up shots all that stuff. Corey likes to push in transition, get to the basket, sometimes it looks like it’s a crowded spot, but he gets to the foul line 15 times a game. So you can’t hate on that. With Monta, he’s averaging 26 and almost 6 assists. So obviously he’s working. We just have to figure out how to play defensively more than offensively when they’re on the floor. I think offensively we’re right there. We just can’t stop anybody. That’s not on them, that’s just on the team of defenders. Something was different tonight, though.”

The difference was, well, one, the Clippers were awful. But also, they were a multi-pronged attack. The Warriors can’t afford to be two dimensional. Now, that doesn’t mean Ellis is any less of a factor. I think its a mistake to think it means Curry running the show means Ellis takes a back seat. All it means is the Warriors have to be more creative and versatile with how they get Ellis opportunities. I think versatility will save him in the long run.

Having Baron run the show didn’t hurt Monta in 2007-08, when Ellis averaged 20.2 points on 53 percent shooting. Having Billups run the show didn’t stop Richard Hamilton from shining during the Pistons recent glory years. The Blazers are versatile in how they get the rock to Roy.

In addition to pick-and-roll, Ellis should be posting up. He should be coming off screens. He should get isos from various spots, instead of just bringing the ball up the court. There should be plays that are designed to get Ellis easy looks where he doesn’t have to work so hard (kind of like the lob off the inbounds they hardly do any more). LeBron, Carmelo, Durant and Wade all average more points in fewer shots than Ellis. Roy, Granger and Joe Johnson aren’t too far behind with significantly fewer shots per game. Clearly, there is a more efficient way.

Ellis knows he is unstoppable scoring. He knows he can get by anyone. He knows he can finish from multiple angles and despite defenders. He will always be his first option. The Warriors need someone handling the ball who has a broader view of the game. Someone who knows when to call his own number, when to find the hot man, when to go at a guy who has foul trouble, when to get a guy going who hasn’t been involved. Someone who is comfortable giving the ball up early, who won’t kill breaks while they saunter up court (drives me crazy!).

Certainly, Curry will have his struggles. He still gets too cavalier with the rock at the wrong times for my liking. But he’s the best the Warriors have as a floor general. He should not be a glorified spot-up shooter. Nellie sounds like he agrees, if you read between the lines, anyway.

Monta and Maggette are obviously good scorers, but can you explain how your team scores so efficiently tonight with them out?

NELSON: “Well, you know, since we don’t really have a post-up game without Maggette, we have to move the ball more. And that’s a factor. And we don’t have a go-to guy, so there is more ball movement. But there were a lot of openings, too. It really helps to have Morrow on the floor because they don’t leave him and that really opens up the middle for our rolls. They were coming off of our 4-man and tonight our 4 made jump shots. So they were between a rock and a hard place on how to guard our screen-and-roll. And then Curry is a terrific assist man. He can find creases and areas where he can make the pass and we had the screen-and-roll game really going tonight.”

How do you duplicate that kind of performance by Curry when Monta’s back on the floor?

NELSON: “(Laughs) Well, I don’t know. He’s the point guard and actually I’ve been looking for a point-forward for how many years now. Even when we had Karl the idea was to get both those guys moving off of screens and being more as a shooter.

Point guard, when you initiate a play you don’t get it back oftentimes, unless you’re running the screen-and-roll. Tonight we kind of did that with C.J. He can a lot of the offense and opened up some shots for Curry.”

Could you see a time even in the near-future where Curry is more of an offensive focus for you than Monta?

NELSON: “Well, Monta’s an offensive genius, like scorers, so that’s what he does.”

But does he bog you down sometimes?

NELSON: “You can be the judge of that. I think they’ve done a pretty good job of playing together this year. Doing a good job together. It’s worked a lot better than most people thought it would. When we don’t have Monta, which isn’t often, then Curry gets to handle the ball that much more.”

Marcus Thompson

  • Whack-A-Dub

    And Charlotte won’t have anyone to run their offense off of

  • dan

    Curry is a younger version of Monta, an undersized SG. Curry should not be asked to handle the ball but the W’s has not other choice. They need a strong/biggger PG to play next to Monta or Curry. Curry is a better outside shooter while Monta can get to the hole quicker.

  • earl monroe

    Hey Dan,
    Curry may be younger that Monta and maybe both are undersized but unlike Monta, Curry has a desire to pass the ball, and a desire to rebound.
    If Curry is asked to play exclusively at the 2 then I think he becomes an undersized scorer.
    Although not as great a driver as Monta, Curry’s skills as a whole make him a better team player.
    Curry is a 1, albeit not a super quick one, once he improves his decision making he is going to be very special.
    Not many rookies around getting triple doubles, why? not many with all around skill like Curry.
    Unfortunately for Monta he is a 2 in a 1′s body, the idea to make him a 1 last year was a good thought except Elllis doesn’t have the vision or desire to
    make the players around him better. I actually think these two can play together.

    Curry needs to handle the ball because he is making those around him better, and I agree with you, in an ideal world they would have a big guard playing
    next to Curry.

  • jsl

    Some SATILL don’t get it about Curry: the kid’s gonna be a first-rank one in this league, and real soon, too.

    He’s extremely smart — in both senses of the term (i.e. IQ and BBall). He’s got about a perfect temperament, never losing his cool, always picking himself up after getting nailed, keeping his shot going even on off days, etc. He’s the best passert I’ve seen around here in a generation — BD was/could be an excellent passer, but he pounded the ball WAY to much, something Curry rarely does. He’s ALWAYS moving — which means after he sets others up, he’s flowing to space where, if he gets the ball back, it’s an open two or three — and he did that a lot in the Clips game.

    He now also defends very well — taking BD out of his game entirely and even going toe-to-toe with the much bigger Tyreke in the recent Kings game. And recall how Nash took him to school in that first Suns game? Didn’t happen again, and in their last tilt Curry was getting the better of Ol’ Steve, until the Suns wised up and pulled Nash for fresh legs. What we see now is teams trying to drive him out of the game by putting bigger guys on him in hopes of fouling him out — but he’s starting to pick up on that, too.

    He is, of course, a brilliant shooter — but what sets him apart here is his incredibly quick release. Does anyone get rid of it faster?

    But the secret, of course, of his growing point guard prowess, which flows from his smarts, is his court vision: he seems to know where all nine other players are, and where the ball should go. And he’s extremely fast pushing the ball up the court with passes. Sure, he still makes too many sloppy, one-handed passes, but, Heck, he’s a 21 year old rook. And he learns from his miscues. (Recall how lost he looked on D the first two months; not now.) The only other local I’ve ever seen with better “vision” in the last 30 years was Montana in his prime; even Steve Young only approached this in his last few years. Who else around here has such broad vision?

    Why people failed initially to see the point guard potential in Curry is understandable, given his college career as a big-time scorer. But even then, Bobby Knight called him the best passer in the college game. Given the chance to run the team, he’s quickly excelled, and will only get better. And we see the steady improvement.

    Enjoy this kid while you can: we’re extremely lucky to have him, because he’ll play a team game, even with a coach who’s all and only about SNSB and that stupid, stultifying iso offense crap. Imagine how good he — and we — could be with a REAL coach, one who understands that defense is half the game.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    If Curry can get tow or more of those 35/10/10 games he will be considered one of the greatest of all time. Trust me, Curry knows his ability and upside is way past what he did wednesday, but everyone loves it if you have second-many rookie triple doubles to the Big O.

    Curry is Akron born and has Lebron’s vision and team playing ability. None of his teammates will ever have as much fun as they did Wednesday.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Just watched something interesting…

    Watch the game vs Oklahoma City at home. Look how many shots the Warriors (beside Curry) make on first-chance oppurtunites (i.e. without an offensive rebound).
    They go at least 11/34 in the first half. Curry in the 1st quarter was 4/5 and had 3 fouls. Morrow was 2/2. The first half, when the Warriors had the lead. I think I know why what happened Wednesday happened. Look at the shooting 80% the first quarter and 61% for the game.

    The Warriors need guys that can MAKE shots. Like they always have had. Chris Mullin, Antawn Jamison, Chris Webber, Mookie Blayloc, Mitch Ritchmond, Tim Hardaway. why isn’t this obvious? Nellie is incorporating Ellis and Magette into a system that relies on offense when you have guys that can’t make shots, and end up relying on boards when you have a team with 2 bigs. What the hell is Nellie thinking?

  • earl monroe

    Triple doubles are great, but if you get 20 points and 10 assists on a regular basis from him, plus his propensity for making big shots down the stretch you have the makings of a very special player, but like everything else, time will tell.

    Playing him off the ball makes very little sense on a team that needs assists, his style of playing induces team play. Its not so much that Monta is a bad player, he’s not its just that its not second nature for him to make the right play all the time. In fact Monta is showing rare and special talents too.

    But like many have said here, its not a Monta vs. Curry thing, its a what is best for the team thing. With Curry feeding him Monta will still get his 25 in fact it may be easier for him.

    Its about decision making, some have it, some don’t.

  • overdue

    WRONG – Monta will not figure it out. We created a monster by annointing him an unstoppable scorer. Sure he has some nice finishes, nut more often than not, the defense collapses on him and he is going 1 on 5. HE IS NOT A WILLING PASSER. Not to mention his bball IQ is about half of Stephs. Its no coincidence that we played like this with Steph running the show. He has a nack for making bad teams good. See Davidson in 2008. He makes scrap heap players good. Because face it, most players in the d-league or up are going to hit open J’s. Steph finds the open man despite what kind of game he is having. He can be 10-10 from 3 and still be a willing passer. Monta is not that player and never will be. Lets get some value for him and send him packing.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Yes, the best thing for the team is to Start Morrow, bring Magette off the bench of get rid of him, and limit Monta to 20 shots a game. If Monta goes 11/30 for 25 pts, its just not worth it. and Magette is unpredictable, some nights he’s completely off sometimes he makes nearly every shot

  • Ken

    Hey – I’ve been following this for over a year now.

    ** When Monta has the ball with less than 24 seconds left in the quarter, the Ws have never scored. NEVER. Check it out if you don’t believe me. **

    He will stand there dribbling for 15 seconds, and then run into the paint, and always loses the ball or passes it to someone who is tightly covered, because everyone was standing still for 15 seconds.

    When the Ws stand still and play slowly, they never succeed.

  • jsl

    Ken: I believe you. Seen it too many times.

    He should NOT have the ball in his hands — except where he’s worked free to take a pass and the shot — when the shot clock’s off.

  • earl monroe

    Until very recently Ellis could only do one thing-take a shot- lately he has been making moves and actually giving himself the option to pass instead of being one dimensional, not being a true point guard, its difficult for Monta to visualize a play at the end of quarters or halfs etc.
    Ellis needs to be given credit for the adjustment to his game lately though, at least he is looking to pass perhaps its contagious, now if only
    Magette would look to do that

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Magette must be traded. Too many shots and too many shots missed.I wouldn’t mind if he took 100 shots and made 75, but 3-22…is that a reason to feel sorry for him or what? Nellie needs to treat every player like a d-leaguer and realize just because someone lasted 10 years in the league does not mean they will make a huge positive impact volume shooting. Why are the warriors dying because people are volume shooting?? What a stupid thing to let go of and ignore. Nellie is definitely out next year.

  • Perry

    3 way deal:

    Toronto gets: Monta Ellis; Yi Jianlian

    New Jersey gets: Anthony Randolph; Ronny Turiaf

    Golden State gets: Chris Bosh; Brook Lopez

    Pros for Toronto: With Turkoglu and Calderon struggling to find their way offensively this season, looks like they can use some scoring help in Monta Ellis. They don’t risk losing Bosh for nothing if he walks.

    Cons for Toronto: They lose the face of their franchise.

    Toronto goes with:

    1. Calderon/Jack
    2. Ellis
    3. Turkoglu
    4. Jianlian
    5. Bargnani

    Pros for New Jersey: They acquire a young, talented 4 in Randolph, but what really makes the deal plausible is Turiaf…….giving New Jersey some toughness and defense.

    Cons for New Jersey: Brook Lopez was drafted higher than Anthony Randolph in the same draft class…

    New Jersey goes with:

    1. D. Harris
    2. C. Lee
    3, C. Douglas Roberts
    4. A. Randolph
    5. R. Turiaf

    Pros for Golden State: We build a team in the model of the Lakers……. a skilled 4 like Bosh rivals Pau Gasol and pair that with a talented young 5 in Lopez… rivaling Andrew Bynum.

    Cons for Golden State: We lose a prolific scorer in Monta Ellis…who tecnhically at 24, is still young, still with a lot of room to grow and learn how to win games.

    Golden State, when healthy, goes with:

    1. Curry
    2. Azubuike
    3. Maggette
    4. Bosh
    5. Lopez

    Pretty good 2nd unit:

    1. Watson
    2. Morrow
    3. Radmanovic
    4. Wright
    5. Biedrins

    With Curry, Bosh and Lopez alone……that should give us 50 wins and a playoff spot………

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Perry, we’d be better off trading Biedrins, Wright and Randolph, maybe throw Magette in. Magette slows down the offense, so we can’t actually run and gun. And why isn’t Morrow staring? look at how much better he is and how mcuch better off the Warriors are with him starting. Put Azukuike at the 2, Morrow at the 3 and switch it up every so often. Bosh, of course is staying at PF. I like Lopez at the 5, and Why is Vladamir there? He has a player option to stay next year. but Bosh kind of needs a set offense to operate. Honestly, I don’t like everybody slowing down just for him. We did it for Magette. We do it for Monta. We suck at it and it kills us. Why do it?

    I don’t understand why Magette is still here, along with Nellie

  • Wilson

    Once in a while everybody on a team gets hot. The fact that it was a poorly motivated Clippers team was a factor, but it could just as easily happened that no Warrior got hot. The Clippers got discouraged early from all the threes Curry was hitting and put up little fight. So drawing conclusions from this game about how the team is better without Monta is dumb.

    What we can conclude from this game is that Curry is a real, live, breathing point guard – Baron Davis with better basketball IQ and shooting, or Steve Nash with better defense and rebounding – and he will be our point guard for the foreseeable future. Details remain to be worked out, and maybe that won’t happen until Nellie is gone, but Curry at the point and Monta at shooting guard has the strong potential to be one of the best backcourts, if not the best, in the NBA in a year or two.

    The issue of Monta and Curry getting along is probably not as big a deal as many of you are suggesting. Monta is a little sulky and ego-driven, and it would be a problem if Curry wasn’t such a sweet, non-confrontational guy. Monta may feel a little jealous of Curry, but when a team is winning, everybody gets along and when the Warriors turn the corner, it’ll be a joy to watch and to play in, and everybody will do what they can to help the team. Besides, the Warriors have both guys locked up for years. Let’s not be so quick to screw up what I believe will be a great backcourt in years to come.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Wilson, the Clippers are a playoff calibur team with a veteran point guard and and All-star center. Curry is definitely better than Davis. The way the game works, especially for veterans, is that they like to come back and shut down younger teams that make rookie mistakes. Baron Davis and the Clippers would eventually win. their team is designed to break down a monta-type of team. The Clippers had a great option with Baron posting up, if that didn’t work, they could go to Kaman. Monta, with his attitude, would keep trying to come back at them on his own. We would soon see a 10 point lead turn into a back-and-forth one possesion game, and it would eventually turn into a 19 point lead for the clippers, as it has every team. It would end as the warriors being “unfortunate” that Monta couldn’t win as he drops 48.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    and that’s 48 on 23-45 shooting

  • Wilson

    Whack, 23 of 45 is better than 50% FG. Not bad. Take that any day. For the Clippers game, by the way, Curry was 11/22, a slightly worse percentage than what you guessed for Monta.

    Nice for you that you can predict exactly what would have happened if Monta had been there. Very impressive. You must be wealthy from betting on games.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Wilson, 45 shots is not worth the whole team taking the hit for a bunch of Monta layups. Curry’s 11 for 22 its mainly outside shots. he missed 4 threes, a couple of floaters, a couple of shots, etc. And if the Warriors win by 40 and have that many assists, is that any better than Monta getting great hype for shooting an unrealitically high fg%, when he would normally shoot 19 of 45 from the field and 3 of 10 from 3. Monta is a voume shooter on a team that needs consistent shooters like Curry. Monta taking 39 shots for 36 points is sad for someone not in a league with no handcheck. But Curry shooting 50% and having a triple double as the Warriors blow out a team that beat them easily earlier in the season after going cold for the last 9 games, and making the team chemistry better…is unreal. Curry is a genius, that kid can play. Monta’s ego “willing” the Warriors to an unfortunate loss after taking 40 shots and having 10 turnovers is unreliable, bad for Monta’s value and nobody likes it unless for entertainment. If Speedy Claxton had to lead for a game and had 36, 13 and 10 against the nets, what would you say? Well, Speedy can play a solid point? If we blew out the Nets by 30 in that kind of game, would we consider keeping Speedy at point? No. We would put him on the trading block, because against the Nets everyone has those games. But the fact is that Monta would never have a triple double. Ever since Jackson left, Monta has kept a good attitude we he WANTS OUT. He wanted to show he could lead the team..how many games has he lost for us? Yes, it’s great Monta is such a good catch and shoot player in the clutch. Then why is Nellie letting him handle the ball every time down? Turnover after Turnover, exactly what hapend against Dallas. Monta threw it right to Westbrook over and over. The guy can’t even tell if someone is denying the ball, why is he even given that option? If Nellie wants to end his career on a good note, then he should intruct Monta to catch the ball, go straight to the basket, or just shoot from wherever he is. 23 of 45 shooting is great, but along with that I can add in 5 rebounds, 7 assists and 11 turnovers and a solid L.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    volume, in a league with no handcheck, he WANTS OUT,

  • Harp’s Dubs

    Perry, there’s no way the Nets give up Brook Lopez unless they get our 1st rounder this year.
    More likely scenarios:

    Trade Monta to Memphis for Rudy Gay and Jaric’s contract.

    Then send Maggette and Randolph to Minnesota for Kevin Love and Mark Blount (expiring contract).
    These moves clear serious salary space and provide us with an excellent, young frontcourt to match with Curry and one of the top picks in the draft (Evan Turner from Wisconsin looks like the perfect 2 guard).
    Next year’s Warriors:
    PG – Curry/Steve Blake (sign as FA this summer)
    SG – Evan Turner/Anthony Morrow (re-sign him this summer)
    SF – Rudy Gay (sign to big contract this summer)/Kelenna Azubuike
    PF – Kevin Love/Brandan Wright/Tolliver (re-sign to minimum 2 year contract)
    C – Biedrins/Turiaf/Hunter (re-sign him to minimum 2 year contract)

    That team is next year’s OKC Thunder – exciting and built for future success. Plus, imagine the marketing for a GayLove forward tandem here in the Bay Area!

  • Harp’s Dubs

    Evan Turner form Ohio State, not Wisconsin – my bad!

  • Whack-A-Dub

    No way. We need Demarcus Cousins. Drafting Turner is dumb, since Minnesota will probably get him anyway.

  • http://baysportsblood.wordpress.com http://baysportsblood.wordpress.com/

    Harp I love your moves, but you are talking about major pieces to up and coming franchises. Kevin Love would be amazing, and I think that Minnesota has a monta ellis/stephen curry thing between him and Al jefferson because they do similar things. I would push for Ryan Anderson from Orlando. Local kid from Cal who is a legit 6’10 but shoots from the outside and can rebound not horribly. Don’t resign these D-leaguers to any kind of contract. The only reason they are here is because we can’t keep anyone on the floor this season. They are taking bad shots or not doing anything with their size, and that will become glaringly clear when/if we ever start winning. I say you almost have to move that draft pick if you can shed major contracts and get a star in return, but if new ownership comes in I could see a ton of moves being made.

    Consider this though… The CBA is up in 2011(after next season), so if you deal some big contracts for a star with 2 years left on his deal then if the CBA isn’t restructured and there is a lockout you don’t have to pay that salary. Meaning you dumped a couple big contracts, and just opened up some big time cap space. This upcoming summer is going to be a big one once the Warriors get sold, but I think finding a coach is the first step. Van Gundy maybe? Brain Shaw? Flip Saunders? Mike Brown?

  • Harp’s Dubs

    @Whack: Did you see Turner’s near triple double today? How would drafting that guy be dumb? He’s the perfect complement to Curry. Also, who’s to say Minnesota will have a pick before us? Right now, we’re both tied at 14 wins. A Curry/Turner backcourt would be awesome for years to come, especially with a frontline of Gay/Love/Biedrins.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Harp’s, yes I saw it. But look at Cousins,putting up great numbers on a winning team. If we could trade Magette and Monta away for a first round pick and get Turner and Cousins/Favors it would be perfect. But since we only have one pick I would go for the PF pick. We need a PF presence badly. Randolph is not a PF.

  • http://notaproblemwithellisorcurry..theproblemiswithnellie.. fillmoe mike

    The problem aint ellis or curry its nelson..he need to be fired like yesterday

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Mike, they won’t fire him until the end of this year or whenever ellison buys the W’s. The main problem for now is Ellis

  • http://notaproblemwithellisorcurry..theproblemiswithnellie.. fillmoe mike

    How is ellis the problem if he’s just doing what the coach ask of him….nelli always says “we need the ball in eliis hands in order to win”….if nellie was smart he would find more creative ways for monta and andris to score….if the ball shud be in currys hands then I don’t think monta would mine because he’s still goin to get his…..

  • http://notaproblemwithellisorcurry..theproblemiswithnellie.. fillmoe mike

    I like wesley johnson more than evan turner in the pro game…also the warriors don’t need to draft another big man..we need swing players that are ready to step in and play…if we get the first pick I would select wall and quincy pondexter with the first pick of the secoumd round…I think pondexter is a slepper and could be a lockdown defenderfor us next season,also he has a nice all around game…..

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Fillmore, big men are what we need. Less bigs like Andris biedrins and more like Brendan Haywood and Zach Randolph. And we should just go ahead and trade monta and magette away to some sub .500 team and grab an extra 1st rounder. Washington would love to foster Monta, who would be a great 6th man as well as Magette, a good post presence for them. Draft Favors with the wizard’s pick and our pick can go for Turner. I don’t know about Wesley Johnson. The guy is explosive and athletic, but why do we need to give up a guy like Evan Turner with excellent basketball IQ and great size. Turner is bad as a big, but great, just put him at the 2. Curry at the 1, Turner at the 2, Randolph/Morrow at the 3, Favors at the 4, Turiaf/Biedrins at the 5. With Ellison buying the W’s there is a high chance he will get a big name soon.

    Washington would want Monta Ellis and Cory Magette for a first rounder and a couple expirings.
    they get a great player in Monta Ellis. It will be perfect considering that not only are the Wizards trying to trade Monta Ellis (at least they may believe it)and they don’t have to commit to a draft pick this year because they just started the rebuilding process.
    We get a ton of cap space and a draft pick for two high-shot, low production guys that just slow the pace of the game down. Curry will get the fortunate oppurtunity to develop in a winning team rather than a long 5 years with “Mr.Turnover”, “rebuilding” more.
    Favors(or Cousins)/Turiaf
    Biedrins/Turiaf/(hunter as a backup)
    And room to sign a big name.
    What a great, high IQ, efficient backcourt. People will be proud to be a W’s fan. And as for Favors and Randolph, their ceilings are too high althought their basketball IQ’s are still developing. As for Morrow, if he can average 20 and 10 every game, we can be a contending team out of nowhere. I don’t know about Biedrins. He’s not as agressive as Turiaf is and rebounds, but how many of those rebounds are just tips off the glass?

  • Whack-A-Dub

    HAHAHAHA cleveland signed Coby Karl

  • deano

    Whack-A-Dub: I agree with you on the need for a POWER forward. Considering his size, and how well he has done in his first NBA games, Anthony Tolliver is the type of player we need. He hustles, pushes, rebounds, plays defense and shows the potential for an outside shot. Right now Tolliver is a solid NBA back-up. With more experience, he might be a solid starter. He is on my roster for next year. If I had to choose between Cousins and Turner as need draft picks right now, I’d go for Turner.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Definitely. Sign tolliver to a two-year minimum.
    GET TURNER. He’s efficient, He’s defensively minded, He’s not too athletic, he’s not too flashy, high IQ, needs to develop an outside shot, which he can and will. He knows how to score. He’s the most efficient player in college ball. If he can give us 20-25 off minimum touches, we can win well with him. We will have a solid backcourt defensively, and if we do get Favors, We will have a shot-blocking core. Turiaf, Randolph, Favors. When we need a shot, or we want to rely on on-the ball defense, put morrow in at the SF. As Morrow improves on defense and Randolph hopefully gets closer to his ceiling (or at least in the right direction) we can have ellison hire Byron Scott or Avery Johnson, or maybe a coach with a defensive philosophy. Either way, Turner is the perfect prospect.

  • Whack-A-Dub
  • Dgrad

    Great analysis, Marcus.

    Curry especially is a player who needs to be involved in the game to produce. He plays better when he is moving and in the flow. He thrives off the energy of the team: this is part of what makes him go. It’s a guess, but I suspect you’ll find his worst shooting nights are those when he largely stood around.

  • Dgrad

    If Curry scores more off the ball, it is largely when the team is moving or the ball has been passed around a few times and the defense loosened up.

    When Monta runs the half-court offense, he pauses to freeze the court, check the defense, and find his slot. Then he either drives for a lay-up or looks for a player to kick it out to. It is the play, in fact, of the franchise star.

    I’m not criticizing Ellis because he does this very well, as we have all seen. But it does set the defense and makes it harder for the player he kicks it out to to score. In Curry’s case, much harder. He has to work harder to find his jumpers and it is much more difficult for him to find a slot to drive.

    I think what I’m asking is that I’d like to see a more dynamic offense and see if Monta could find a way to play in it. Imagine what kind of team we might have seen if Ellis had played in place of Watson last Wednesday, same scheme.

  • Dgrad

    Last thought here. Everyone talks about Ellis vs. Curry. To me the most impressive thing about Wednesday’s game is that our bigs scored 23 points — surely a result of this offense. I know, the Clippers, but their bigs are quite big.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Yes, and Kaman is a shotblocker, but couldn’t do anything. Deandre Jordan was the best Clipper on the floor. It’s hilarious how a year ago Morrow had 37 in a win…but this is insane, 36, a triple double, and a blowout without any of your “star players”.

  • http://www.gmail.com raju

    Monta is probably not going to be traded. Magette is. Ellis is not a good scorer if he takes 39 shots and has 36 points. Ellis’ role on this team is bad. Curry is the 7th rookie or so in NBA history to do what he did, and Curry makes the team better. When did Tolliver have 29 with Monta in?

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Thats my point, raju. As soon as we get Evan Turner the Monta era is over.

  • Jerry

    What a great idea, take the ball out of Monta,s hands. He doesn’t pass the ball and he doesn’t trust his team mates at all. He believes that he must force up a shot in order for the team to score. I have watched him game after game this year just make stupid plays because he won’t pass the ball. I watch Morrow and CJ as well as other’s just standing around and watching Monta force shots and then make a stupid foul because he didn’t get a foul call when he drives to the basket. And all of the CHARGES he gets is really STUPID on he part. He needs to grow up and learn how to play as a team mate. I BELIEVE THE BEST THING TO DO NOW IS TRADE MONTA AND BEDRUIS AND TRY TO GET A STRONG CENTER OR POWER FORWARD, THEN DRAFT A CENTER NEXT YEAR. The team we have when all are healthy can be a playoff team if we can trade these two guys or get a good draft pick next year and get a big man to help Turiaf. Then I think this team would be fun to watch and should be a good playoff team…………………

  • fillmoe mike

    Why are you people so easy to give up on a proven efficient scorer that’s not even 25 yet….I’m not saying monta is perfect but that’s the beauty of it..he has room to improve…the warriors shud let curry run the show and setup ellis…as far as the draft goes….the more and more I see demarcus cousins the more I like him…he’s big and he has real solid post moves…we shud really thinking about taking him he 7’0 tall 275!!!trade biendris asap…

  • D-Ball

    Totally overlooked by all is that the Warriors now rebound a lot better with Biedrens and Turiaf healthy and Tolliver in the lineup. That allows them to push the ball and not have to rely on the half-court sets with Monte or Corey trying to create. Tolliver is key here as he actually boxes out – if he does not get the rebound and outlet quickly, then it helps a guard get the rebound and take off down the court.
    Both Monte and Magette will benefit from that. Last night they had as many rebounds as Sacto when they were totally outrebounded in previous games.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Fillmore…he’s a bad decision maker. He averages 4 turnovers a game. Rookies don’t average that much.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Anybody notice that if we get the #2 pick and land Turner, we can build the franchise off Run TMC?
    (Turner-Morrow(not Monta)-Curry)
    2-Turner (give us some size at that spot, finally)
    3-Morrow (2-0 at that spot)
    And next year, we trade Monta, Corey, and Biedrins for whoever gets the #1 pick. And then we get Hassan Whiteside

    4-Turiaf/Wright(Wright if we’re facing a european team and can afford no muscle)
    5-Whiteside (who is the next bynum-howard guy)/Turiaf (the only thing we have close at this point.
    We need a steal in this draft, I wish they traded somebody like Monta or Magette for a pick… minnesota has 3 first round picks this year
    one lottery, we could have used picks later in the draft,and gotten Aldrich or Patterson

  • Perry

    Any starting 5 that features Ronny Turiaf would be well-suited for the “All Homeless” team of the Bay Area Red Cross chapters……..

    Turiaf has absolutely “0″ offensive game yet “Whack-A-Dub” wants to start him at the 4 against guys like Gasol, Stoudemire and Aldridge.

    I wouldn’t start Turiaf in a Church League……

    Teams like the Lakers, Denver, Portland, San Antonio, Utah and Dallas would laugh at your starting 5 “Whack-a-Dub”……..

    I want to improve this team, not depress it further…….

    The problem is that this organization has no foresight to see a good thing comin’……..

    Where was Riley in the Carl Landry sweepstakes………..was he anywhere to be found?

    Isn’t Larry Riley supposed to be aware of situations like that and aggressively pursue them?

    All we got was the Ellis/Mayo offer from Memphis?

    Come on, Larry, how come Sacramento was able to swing a scoring, rebounding front court player in Landry and we’re still sitting here with our dicks in our hands?

    Even the Camby deal makes sense for the Clippers…..they add a veteran PG in Blake and couple that with a hard-nosed, scoring role player in Travis Outlaw……

    Where were the Warriors with Caron Butler and Antawn Jamison?

    The Riley/Nelson tandem is as bad as when Nelson was GM and Coach in his first stint with the Warriors in the mid 90′s………it’s as bad as St. Jean and Twardzik………

    We have made 0 improvement and have regressed even further.

    Yet some of you guys want to start a bunch of rookies and Ronny Turiaf…..I just don’t understand it.


    nice Perry, whack-a-dub seems to be following the kool-aid PR dept model…

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Perry, Turiaf at the PF is not for scoring. If we ever have a scoring big, it won’t be anyone we have on this roster now. Turiaf is at the PF for a shotblocking presence. And so is Whiteside. Who would you rather have at PF, a guy like Turiaf to throw off the soft PFs in the league like Gasol or Nowitzki and actually guard stronger players like Scola and Garnett.
    And yes, I think we should start a bunch of rookies…
    we’re just starting to play Stephen more and look at what he is bringing to the game. Turner is a much better SG than Monta, an undersized, turnover prone, stephon marbury type of player. Even for his minutes…
    4 turovers a game is inexcusable for someone 5 years into the league. And Maggette, goes around, committing turnovers, screwing up the chemistry, volume shooting, and those “invisible” missed layups that Nellie never complains about aren’t hurting the Warriors? Are you serious? We’re better off starting Turner next year, he is a VERY effecient player and I think we need to give him the same experience Stephen had, instead of playing them limited minutes. Morrow at the 3 spot has put up great numbers.

    I’m tired of signing unreliable, inefficient players, looking to use the W’s as a cooldown in their career(i.e, the Webber retirement program), but the fact that Riley said Monta is untouchable is complete bull. Get rid of Ellis and Magette, anyone that thinks starting Morrow and Curry is “depressing” us is just underestimating this team’s chemistry without Fagette and Monturnover.