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The Wall/Turner Debate

Was having a pretty good discussion over on Twitter (http://twitter.com/gswscribe) about who the Warriors should draft.

The assumption, or the hypothetical situation, is that the Warriors get the No. 1 pick in the draft (which they have a good chance of doing, considering they have one of the worst records in the league). What should they do? The most popular options in the discussion were the following:

* Take the guy considered far-and-away the best player in the draft, Kentucky PG John Wall, and create room for him by trading guard Monta Ellis and/or Stephen Curry

* Trade the pick and get a player at a position they need more, such as Ohio State swingman Evan Turner or Kentucky big man DeMarcus Cousins, and run the risk of passing on the player many expect will turn out to be one of the greats

* Draft Wall and play him with Ellis and Curry, creating an explosive-yet-tiny perimeter

For the record, if they get No. 1, I say cash in on the Wall hype and get the No. 2 plus whatever you can. Then with the No. 2, take Evan Turner.

Some think that’s crazy. How do you pass on John Wall? How do you risk walking away from the guy predicted to be the next great, great point guard? Stephen Curry is how.

From my end, the Warriors have a good young point guard. That position is set for years to come. Is John Wall an upgrade? Possibly. He is certainly physically and athletically superior. But he is that much better to justify discarding Curry? I don’t think so.

Among other things, the Warriors need a playmaker at the small forward or shooting guard positions, especially someone with size. They need another guy who can make plays from various spots on the floor (the top, from the wing, from the post) and facilitate the offense when they have a mismatch. Stephen Jackson was that guy. Evan Turner might wind up even better than Jackson. At 6-foo-7, 205 pounds, he has all the tools. Put him at SF, you can have Curry and Ellis, or even Morrow, on either side of him. You put him at SG, you have the backcourt of the future with him and Curry. A traditional backcourt. And a cheap one for the next three years.

Of course, that means moving Monta Ellis. But imagine what you could get for Ellis (with four years, $44 million) if you tack on the No. 1 pick. Obviously, it all depends on who get No. 2. But do you think the Knicks would do a sign-and-trade with David Lee for a chance at John Wall? Would Minnesota give up Al Jefferson?

Here is my thinking: You don’t have to have the best point guard to win big. You just need a really good one. If you already have one, why grab another one? The times where teams are burned by passing up the best available player is usually when the back-up plan is a relative stiff or a project. If you get a pretty good player, passing up a great one is not so bad. People always talk about how Portland blew it because they drafted Sam Bowie over Jordan. No one talks about how Houston, who had the No. 1 pick, also passed up Michael Jordan. Because they drafted Hakeem Olajuwon.

Did Toronto blow it by not taking Dwyane Wade at No. 4 in 2003? No. They got Chris Bosh. Oklahoma City passed up Tyreke Evans just like Memphis did. But Memphis drafted Hasheem Thabeet and Oklahoma City, which already had Russell Westbrook, drafted James Harden. Did OKC make a mistake? I don’t think so.

Evan Turner is, by most analysis I’ve read and from what I think in the few games I’ve seen, is going to be pretty good. If you walk away from the draft with Curry, Turner and a third player as a result of trading Wall (and maybe Ellis), that is a respectable route to take.

Of course, if Turner turns out to be a bust and Wall a star, the Warriors would never hear the end of it. But I history would be harsher on the franchise if it gave up Curry for Wall, and Curry turns out to be a star while Wall turns out to be a bust. That is just the risk of the draft.

I am not a fan of the small backcourt. To me, it doesn’t produce championships, which is the ultimate goal. Therefore, any backcourt combination of Wall/Curry/Ellis is not ideal. It creates too many problems on defense, since neither are taller than 6-foot-4, and defense is necessary for true basketball success. Sure, they would be explosive and exciting and fun to watch. But they won’t win big. Because in the end, you have to defend Kobe, and Brandon Roy, and Manu Ginobili, and J.R. Smith, and O.J. Mayo, and Kevin Martin, and, eventually, Marcus Thornton.

I think Wall is a beast. But you don’t have him to win. Curry is turning out to be really good, and is better than Wall in a way that pays big dividends. What do you hear about just every PG who comes into the league? He needs to learn to shoot. Well, the Warriors have a PG who can shoot. I think it is way too risky to give up that guarantee you have in the bank, for – essentially – more athleticism and physical dominance at the position.

I will say this. I am certainly not opposed to drafting Wall and trading Curry and/or Ellis. If the Warriors decide to go with Ellis at shooting guard for the future, they need a solid PG next to them. I wouldn’t be mad at all if they drafted Wall and went with him and Ellis. Because of Wall’s athleticism, and size, I think those two have a better chance of excelling as a small backcourt than Curry and Ellis. I still think Wall would have to be the undisputed point guard and Ellis would be the SG.

My only concern is at the end of the day, unless you parlay Curry into something really good, you only have two positions addressed – the same two positions you already had addressed. Even if you are now better in the backcourt, you still need to address the frontcourt. If you roll with Curry as your PG, and trade down for Turner (especially if you include Ellis or even Anthony Randolph), you can potentially fill a third position for years to come – whether it’s SF or PF or C. And maybe cut money while you do it.

Of course, none of this matters unless the Warriors get the No. 1.

Marcus Thompson

  • TownLove

    I like Cousins attitude. He usually gets pissed off when he is not playing well. Never at his teammates, but usually at himself or hes messing with a crowd booing him. Atleast he cares about playing well.
    He would add some attitude to this team. Like Stephen Jackson did B4 he went crazy. What is Cousins 19? He’ll mature. IMO, the low bar for him would be Al Jefferson.

  • Bleep

    Hey MTII, what do you mean by planned foul on twitter? It certainly didn’t seem to be planned by Nelson.

    Arg. What a frustrating ending.

  • some guy

    poster 41. yup. on the TNT broadcast, you can actually hear Nellie say “CJ what are you doing?” then goes on about how they could still get the ball back with 3 seconds left in the game.

    “Obviously, it all depends on who get No. 2. But do you think the Knicks would do a sign-and-trade with David Lee for a chance at John Wall?”

    the Knicks no longer have their draft pick. Utah does (it’s unprotected).

    what the warriors really should do is see if they can’t pick up another high pick by taking back one of the horrible contracts of the bottom rung teams like Arenas’ or Brand’s or Dalembert’s or one or more of the Detroit contracts.

    the owners of teams are all losing tens of millions this year & have been forecast to lose more in the next few seasons. not having to pay a top pick’s salary along with saving on contract dollars & years would probably be very appealing. unfortunately, Cohan/Rowell would never allow that to happen to the payroll.

  • Italy 415

    LET’S JUST HOPE AND PRAY THAT THE WARRIORS CONTINUE TO LOSE AND MINN. TO WIN A COUPLE MORE GAMES.THAT WAY WE HAVE SOMETHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO THE DRAFT!!!! OH,BTW WAY WHO GIVES A SH** ABOUT NELSON’S RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Dan, do you actually think we’re getting the 1st pick?
    Draft Turner, and possibly Cousins…

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Townlove. If you have bad body language about yourself, it’s called pouting. It’s not a good thing…
    but Morrow kind of has the same thing. This offseason, we need to make some big moves…really big moves.
    They announced on TNT Nellie is coming back to coach next year-hopefully Riley isn’t that stupid to let him back just because he wants to come back.

  • The wise

    If the warriors get the first pick I think they should draft Evan Turner regardless. We have Montae and curry. Curry is a baller… He can pass, shoot, and he’s only going to get better on D as time goes along. We have many trade pieces so we really don’t have to trade montae to get something good in return. We can trade Biedrins, Magette, Bell, Azuibuke, Wright, Watson,Radmanovich… Trust me we don’t necessarily have to get rid of montae. But I wouldn’t mind Having a big team adding turner to the 2, and trading montae to the pacers for granger who’s 6’9 moving him to the three and going with a starting 5 of Curry, Turner, Granger, Randolph, Biedrins. Or if we get lucky Curry, Turner, Granger, Randolph, Stoudamire.

  • The wise

    Turner averages 20-10-6 a game… C’mon son! and he fills a need. Im hopin for turner all the way.

  • Aperacer

    Turner hit a deep buzzer beater today, I’m sold we need someone who can finish a game like that!

  • Whack-A-Dub

    All I can say is that whoever goes #1 and picks John Wall out of the hype is going to regreat for YEAAAAARs to come. Wall is good, but not NBA ready. He’s going to end up like Derrick Rose or Tyreke Evans- Needing a PG to sit next to him and facilitate what he’s doing-
    While Turner, with a mid-range game that’s so advanced that even Kobe can’t shoot the % he does, will be a superstar in the league. There’s a reason he’s POY

  • Paul

    Somewhat agree Whack-A …
    Wall is NBA ready, but teams don’t ascend with ball-dominating lead guards who don’t make their teammates any better.
    He’ll put up impressive fantasy league numbers and challenge for ROY because few in the league will be able to keep him out of the lane.
    But I’d rather have a Chris Paul-Deron Williams running my team any day.
    I’ve been pining for Turner for weeks, so I consider this a no-brainer.
    The real dilemma is whom they covet if they can’t land Turner.
    Greg Monroe is the best fit for their system, but I don’t think he ever emerges as a team’s No. 1 player. Tremendously gifted, but like Garnett, not a take-charge type.
    Derrick Favors is intriguing, but he gives basically the same things Biedrins does. And the jury is out on whether he’ll develop a mid-range game, cuz all he does now is rebound and dunk.
    While DeMarcus Cousins is physically imposing, he has major maturity/work ethic issues and could easily peak as being Erick Dampier.

  • Legacy510

    Biedrins is not the answer to be the starter at the 5 position period! Turiaf is a good back up 5. I say draft Turner to play the two or three, either way he fills a need at either spot. At the two he gives us a bigger body who can guard the bigger and stronger 2 guards in the league. At the three he gives us a legitimate scoring threat.

    At that point I would package Monta for a 1st round draft pick and select Cousins.

    I like a starting team of Curry, Bell/Buike, Turner, Randolph, and Cousins. All of that of couse if we cant land Boozer or Bosh in the off season. Or a trade of Biedrins and Bell for Stoudemire.

  • Legacy510

    Bottom line is the Dubs gotta pullout all the stops this off season. Riley claimed that a player like Bosh is out of our league. Then go after Boozer hard during free agency. Get Turner and Cousins in the draft through a trade of Monta and Biedrins for a second high 1st round pick.

    Imagine a starting 5 of Curry, Turner, Randolph, Boozer, and Cousins. Watson, Bell, Morrow,Magette, Wright, and Turiaf off the bench. That sounds like a playoff contending team to me that rebounds and plays defense.

  • lobo

    as long as we have the scmucks upstairs and the ones coaching the clown act whatever the team does will be the wrong thing…..and if it turns out they get wall fatso the coach will screw with his head like he has done with everyone else on this team….i don’t know why i wasted electricity and keystrokes on this post

  • lobo

    i spelled schmucks wrong…deserving of an edit as that is the best way to describe those dopes

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Paul, yes- Turner is the only thing that isn’t fool’s gold in this draft…

    Favors will be a smaller Greg Oden that may or may not be injured…

    Wall will be another Rose/Evans that no analyst is willing to explain anything about why they can’t win or why they have to play with other point guards (Udrih and Hinrich)to facilitate…

    Monroe may be the steal of the draft…maybe trade Monta/Magette and surprise everyone by drafting him with the 6th or 7th pick. Yes, he’s talented, and he would compliment Curry very well.

    Now Cousins…his work ethic may leave his as a heavier Thabeet, so I’m not so sure…unless we had a pick that gives us Turner, then we basically have no options. We have to pick one flop or another.

    Isn’t it ironic how this year’s draft was supposed to be virtually empty because of Blake Griffin being so much better than everyone else. Yet, this class will probably be the best of the next five years.

    I say if we get multiple picks, but they are away from the area of where we can get Turner, which wuld be unlikely, I say bundle the pick, Monta and Magette, and try to go for Blake Griffin or someone that could
    be a Stockton/Malone frame for Curry. Even if we do get Turner, there is a chance that the Clippers or some team see a lot of value in Ellis and Magette, and possibly Biedrins with them as well.

    But seriously, we need Turner. Everyone else is a high-potential bust.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Lobo, Nellie isn’t actually coming back…

    he’s leaving…right Riley?

    Where’s Larry Ellison? Was it just another Cohan decoy for us to have hope?

  • mwlx

    Lotta gamblers on this blog. Curry is a sure talent. Ellis is a sure talent. Wall has great potential, but could be a bust. No way would I tinker with our sure things to gamble on potential.

  • Paul

    My dream scenario has the W’s drafting Evan Turner, then trading Monta and a big (preferably Andris, but presumably Randolph) to Minnesota for Al Jefferson, whom the Wolves seem compelled to move because he and Kevin Love won’t work together.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Paul, if this was youtube I would make twenty different accounts just to +1 you that many times.

    That’s exactly what we need to do, along with fire Nellie.

    Trade Monta, trade Magette, trade Biedrins. They’re all cancers. Trade them for future first round draft picks. Watch them bring down multiple teams. We get three or two lottery picks in the upcoming draft. So a solidified backcourt in Curry, Turner…i shouldn’t say solidified, that’s a championship backcourt.
    Then three lottery picks we can gamble with…whoever does bad in this tourney (preferably Greg Monroe and/or Favors) will stay, though I doubt Favors will.

    And then Harrison Barnes or Hassan Whiteside…idk

  • jsl

    Good analysis, MT. Very convincing arguments.

    And I understand why Turner; but why NOT Cousins?

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Jsl, he has a horrible work ethic. Curry has an effortless offensive game. Cousins is also effortless-as a player. He’s a no-hustle, no-work, lazy player with a high bust potential, and despite him having moves advanced for his age of 19, look at Turner at 21, who has the best all-around game I’ve seen in a long time, not to mention a mid-range game that is as advanced as Kobe’s…RIGHT NOW, if not better than he is…NOW, after 14 years in the NBA.

  • The wise

    Trade Monta, trade Magette, trade Biedrins. They’re all cancers. Trade them for future first round draft picks. Watch them bring down multiple teams. We get three or two lottery picks in the upcoming draft. So a solidified backcourt in Curry, Turner…i shouldn’t say solidified, that’s a championship backcourt.
    Then three lottery picks we can gamble with…whoever does bad in this tourney (preferably Greg Monroe and/or Favors) will stay, though I doubt Favors will.

    —————————

    Sorry but that would then make us an college team. I say trade magette and montae for granger a three with range to put alongside curry, turner, and randolph. Get what you can for beans and splash on stoudamire. But the thing with trading montae and the rest is finding teams that can soak up the salary cap.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Sorry but that would then make us an college team. I say trade magette and montae for granger a three with range to put alongside curry, turner, and randolph. Get what you can for beans and splash on stoudamire. But the thing with trading montae and the rest is finding teams that can soak up the salary cap.

    ———————————————————

    No, it would not make us a college team. Curry and Turner are far beyond the NBA level of play. Yes, it would be hard to operate without veterans. But look at OKC. With good defense and a bunch of “college players”, they’re doing better than Brandon Roy is right now.

    And the guy that can soak up the salay cap is Jefferson, and possibly another FA…trading Monta, Magette, and Biedrins would leave us with over 30 mil of cap space, I’m pretty sure Amare would want that.

    I remember people saying not too long ago how Curry is too frail to play in the NBA, almost like he was a deformed child with a weak heart.
    Evan Turner and Stephen Curry are a hell of a backcourt nonetheless, and their basketball IQs mean a fast adjustment to the NBA.

  • earl monroe

    Wall/Turner, that sounds like a law firm

  • earl monroe

    I am thinking the Warriors trade down to get Edwin Eubilis of Siena

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Lol who the hell is Edwin Eubilis
    Oh wow, he actually exists.

  • earl monroe

    Yup, Eubilis exists, look at his numbers from last years tournament.

  • earl monroe

    You trade down a la Bill Walsh because you need more talent than one player.

  • earl monroe

    That would be Edwin Ubiles of Siena

  • Whack-A-Dub

    No, that’s okay. If we need more than one player, then we trade off someone like Monta or Biedrins for an extra pick rahter than do something Riley would do anyway

  • TownLove

    Whack-A,

    I dont understand you sayin Cousin has no work ethic when Calapari stated that he has never need a play come as far in a short period of time. Thats high praise from Calapari who has a lot of really good ‘one and done’ players.

    I wasnt impressed with Cousins in HS. But the guy has literally developed a go-to low block moves in 9 months.

    The Thabeet comparison makes no sense. Thabeet was always mostly a defensive player. Thabeet was sent to the DLeage to specifically work on his offensive nives. He never had the offense of Cousins.

    How you stop a 7’0, 270 lbs player, with offensive moves and can make freethrows. You dont.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Townlove, the reason he doesn’t run any plays for Cousins is because Cousins is workmanlike center.
    Remember Bill Cartwright for the Bulls? He was valuable because he played off the ball.

    Cousins is shorter than Randolph but bigger, has no mid-range game, and a terrible work ethic and gets winded easily, and the thing that is alarming for someone with his size and dexterity is that he isn’t a shotblocker, in fact, he plays limited minutes because of fatigue and foul trouble.

    The point is Cousins is being seen as a high-bust player…he definitely isn’t near the level of dominance Shaq was at… Yes, he scores more, but he isn’t the wildcats’ go-to guy down the stretch or at all. If it wasn’t for Wall and Patterson playing and allowing him to work under the water, Cousins would probably stay for another 3 years or so…but Cousins lack of a fullcourt game just solidifies that he won’t be as valuable as underrated players like Monroe or Turner that this organization needs so badly.

  • The wise

    Monroe is a beast. 23-16-8 average.smh

  • The wise

    What makes that stat line even more intriguing is the fact that college quarters arn’e as long as the pros. So he’s putting up numbers like that in short time.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    The Wise, I agree. I wish we had multiple picks.
    We should draft Turner, then wait to see who the lose are in the free agency and then try a trade for Monroe or Cousins. This draft is like a gold mine. So many skilled players in one draft. I’m pretty sure Cousins or
    Solomon Alabi will be flops, yet Cousins is fired up in the tourney so far, and the main reason UK is winning.

    In fact, if this continues and Turner and the buckeye keep winning, I think it may be possible for Wall to drop to the #3 pick overall. We don’t need John Wall.
    Even if we do get the 1st pick, we should just draft Turner. There is no point in buying into the hype that wouldn’t do well without Cousins anyway.

  • The wise

    Yea if we don’t get turner, I’d like to see us take a look at wesley johnon also. He’s long can shoot and runs the floor at a nellie tempo. On the W’s we lack a true 3. Im sorry but maggette is not a 3, and he’s a ball hog. I wouldn’t be upset if montae stays but Magette and beans nearly have to go in my mind. And if we get rid of those 2 contracts it should be easy to sign amare, we’re set at pf with wright and randolph and turiaf at backup C so the whole cousins and monroe thing doesn’t seem like that big of a need. I just want a real 3 who can shoot and play team ball. And don’t forget the t wolves want to move al jefferson badly. Maggete and biendrins maybe enough to get it done.

  • jsl

    Whack and Town: I’ve not seen a ton of Cousins, but what I HAVE seen is VERY impressive. If he’s a head case, I wouldn’t want him. But he’s got so much dexterity and athleticism it’s hard to see him as a potential bust.

    But, I’ll defer to those who’ve seen him more than a coupla games.

    Now, why has Adlrich’s stock dropped? That kid looks like a demon on defense — a HUGE Warrior need. And he seems to be pretty smart, too. Could be a nice fit working with Curry.

    Any thoughts, Whack, Town or others?

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Haha, that’s hilarious. Drafting Johnson would be the worst move this organization can make, especially with a high pick. We are obviouly going to get rid of Magette.
    Lol, we need a big time presence down low, and none of our bigs fit that role at all. Calling Biedrins, Wright, and Randolph a legit frontcourt is like putting Dirk Nowitzki in a bout against Floyd Mayweather.

    There is a reason Cousins is projected 3rd overall- he is 6-11 270, and very dominant.

    There is also a reason Wes Johnson ha only been mentioned by you in this whole thread.
    He doesn’t rebound even for his insane length. He doesn’t defend well one on one. He doesn’t have a mid-range game. That sums up all our bigs and Wes Johnson.

    Seriously, not drafting Cousins or Monroe because we have too many “bigs” is like the Rocket not drafting Olajuwon because they had Ralph Sampson.

    Drafting Wes Johnson is an even stupider idea for a team that already doesn’t play any defense and has had oversized shooters over the years.

    Thank god you’re not our GM…try watching college basketball, maybe you’ll learn that Johnson is an inactive, lazy player with a horrible upside, and will probably be the oldest in the draft.

    Meanwhile Cousins is 19 and has some moves that Shaq didn’t have until he learned to utilize hi strength.
    He is a rebounding machine, but with a bad work ethic could be a flop. But he is what we need-a big man. A real big man, not the sub 200lb randolph or wright, or the soft, unwilling Biedrins.

    And Turner’ mid-range game and scoring ability is so advanced I don’t think Kobe has some of the moves he has. Not to mention his dominant rebounding ability and defensive ability.

    Monroe is a flexible, running PF that can rebound and score well. His fluidity, coachability, baketball IQ, and versatility in terms of the fact that he can shoot make him a very underrated prospect, not to mention he has a great upside at 19 years old, meaning he ha not grown into his frame yet.

    Again, draft Turner and then trade for Cousins or monroe, maybe both…then use the money to sign an FA whether it be Amar’e or Granger, whatever.

    But Turner is a must, Wall is an untouchable on draft day unless we now some team would want to buy into the hype.

    Then Cousins and Monroe should fall into our hands as teams want Ellis/Magette/Biedrins…

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Re:Jsl

    Well, Cousins is good, but for some reason, they don’t run any plays for him. It’s really odd that it’s Wall’s choice to get him the ball if he ever gets it in the post. With Cousins’ quickness, footwork, and dexterity, he should be raved about being a polished player. But he’s not. If you watch Cousins compared to Shaq in LSU, he was assertive and posseive of the game, and as a freshman at 18 years old, naturally had the sense to take over the game. Now look at Cousins. At 19, he still hasn’t found his role on the team. He knows when his teammates need him to score, but he is not nearly as much of a furbished scorer as Shaq was. In LSU, people would try everything they could to stop Shaq when he started to get rolling. And he knew it, yet he knew how to adjust. It’ just some things as a big man- intesity and dominance- that Cousins does not have. Scouts see him as sort of a childish player because they believe that even with his ability, he has not taken full advantage of what he can do.

    As for Aldrich, I asked myself the same thing: why is he becoming so invaluable? It’ because he is
    a)21 and therefore has filled most of his frame
    b)NBA bigs are expected to improve their game year y year, and he has not done that.
    c)He is best as a role player: while people are going crazy over Cousins having too much of a limited role, Aldrich is playing in his role. He’s not a go-to scorer, he’s a pick-up C, and that kind of player isn’t what you would want in the lottery, where crappy teams like Philidelphia and Detriot badly need a centerpiece to rebuild on…

    Jannero Pargo is a good example: He was a talented player that ended up a role player. Same with JJ redick.

  • The wise

    Naw I just believe we can trade for a big or sign one in free agency. And if we did go for a big I’d take monroe over cousin because he works harder, and he’s a beast.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    The Wise, thumbs up.

    But draft Turner if we get the 1st pick, everyone who saw the UK/Mississippi game knows bledsoe and patterson are the reasons UK won.

  • Jeremy

    Spot on here MTII. Turner is a much better fit for the Warriors. If the Warriors got Lee or Jefferson + Turner and Azubuike back at full strength the turnaround would be swift.

    Since usually the Warriors have the worst luck possible, they’ll probably end up at 6 in a perceived 5 player draft. If that’s the case, I’d love Ed Davis to come to Golden State.

  • deano

    After watching yesterday’s Kentucky – Miss. State game, I am even more sure that MTII is right about cashing in on the John Wall hype — if we get that lucky. The Cousins – Vanardo match-up was interesting. Cousins looked better at the end, but he played only 26 minutes compared to V’s 40.

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Deano, are you retarded? If you really matched Miss st. and UK, you would realize bledsoe, patterson, and cousins are the main reason UK wins-the role players.
    Whereas what Turner is winning with is phenomenal. It’s almost as bad as what Curry had yet Turner is killing in the big 10. Kentucky is such a vulnerable team it’s sad. If Wall did not have Cousins and Cousins did not have Wall, they would both suck.

    Turner is so underrated that it’s not even funny that MTII is talking about “cashing in” on the next raw, overhyped physically dominant player with no fundamentals and no coachability

  • mz

    Wall has not shown yet that he is the next Lebron. The dude is averaging 16.5 PPG on 45% shooting in college, EXACTLY what Steph is doing as a ROOKIE IN THE NBA. (Steph only averaged 21, 25 and 29 his three years in college, btw.) Wake up and stop drinking the John Wall koolaid. The Ws already have 2 exceptional guards in Monta and Steph, only the best statistical backcourt in the NBA, and Curry is turning heads so much that he may end up even money to be rookie of the year. You cannot teach the kind of court sense and vision he has, and if they are going to have the chance, trade down for Turner or better yet, Cousins…the Ws problem is not at the 1, 2 and 3. With Curry, Ellis, Morrow, Watson, Azuibuke and Maggette (yes Maggette should be a three and would be for any other coach than Don Nelson) the Ws are fine at the smalls. What they have is a very good # 2 center in Turiaf, a #1 center with the worst touch in the league and two underachieving, overhyped, rail thin and injury prone fours. Trade for Cousins and sign and trade for David Lee or get Al Jefferson in a sign and trade and Turner, get a decent coach, and, oh while you are at it, sell the team to Ellison, and the long national nightmare will be over.

  • slimman

    This is what Warriors fans are reduced to by March; pipe dreams of winning the draft lottery. I’d trade the whole team and the next 5 years draft picks for a new owner.

    That said, why draft a PG if you have one? If they are lucky enough to win the ping-pong then trade Wall to NJ or Min for Lopez/Jefferson and their pick, then take Turner or Cousins. If it is Turner, then look to move Monta for some beef at the 4 who can score. Next, get rid of the Magette contract, which will likely cost a good cheap player. congratulations, you have a team that can make it to but not through the first round of the playoffs, which is a start. Sadly, as long as those assclowns Cohan and Rowell are around none of this matters.

  • PJ

    Nice piece by Marcus Thompson. In contrast here is a look at some of the recent schizophrenic thinking from Kawakami on the backcourt and last years draft:

    In his most recent article he declared Stephen Curry a future all-star. Nevermind that he ripped the Warriors for drafting Curry because he “can’t play with Ellis.” And not just during the draft but quite recently. He also declared that Jru Holliday was THE player to pair with Monta Ellis. When Holliday started looking like a bust Kawakami began the, ‘injuries don’t matter – Monta Ellis is not that good’ and needs to be traded for Kirk Heinrich campaign:

    “Just last summer I proposed many alternatives for their draft pick, the main trick of it trying to find the right mix of talent with Monta Ellis, if he was the team centerpiece. It aint easy and I admit that I don’t think any of us quite got that one right, including the Great Rowell.”
    http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2010/02/10/if-cohans-prepping-for-a-sale-is-ellison-virtually-the-warriors-shadow-owner-now/

    Monta Ellis’ peripheral stats, spelled out (B-A-D)Posted by Tim Kawakami on January 26th, 2010 at 2:08 pm | Categorized as NBA, Warriors
    “…The Warriors are going to have to split the Ellis/Curry backcourt at some point. I’d hope they realized that from the beginning, but I know they didn’t…Anyway, back to Ellis: You can argue that he’s fun to watch, but you cannot argue that he is a dominant player in any way the actually leads to the Warriors winning games this season. 1) They need to pick between Ellis and Curry because that backcourt does not work in the real world, only in Don Nelson’s imagination. 2) Ellis’ evident talents have not translated to the Warriors being any better when he’s out there, as opposed to Name Your D-Leaguer….”
    http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2010/01/26/monta-ellis-peripheral-stats-spelled-out-b-a-d/

    Yes, the Warriors should trade Monta Ellis (but I doubt they will)
    Posted by Tim Kawakami on February 14th, 2010 at 10:28 am Categorized as NBA, Warriors
    “…The Warriors would be much better served to keep Curry and find a way to land a big guard who could move without the ball and defend top-flight perimeter scorers. They’d have a lot better mix. They’d have better chemistry. They’d highlight and emphasize their strengths, instead of jamming similar players together in the frenzied desire to sell tickets….From the day they drafted Curry, I’ve thought that Curry and Ellis were too similar physically and stylistically (both need the ball in their hands) to work well together….”
    http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2010/02/14/yes-the-warriors-should-trade-monta-ellis-but-i-doubt-they-will/

    Where might Monta Ellis end up? Let’s scour the field: Philly, Miami, Memphis…Posted by Tim Kawakami on November 18th, 2009 at 9:54 pm | Categorized as NBA, Warriors ”
    “…1. PHILADELPHIA: Either for Samuel Dalembert straight up (UNLIKELY) or for a package including Jrue Holiday, Thaddeus Young and salary filler (or Louis Williams)….
    …2. MIAMI:The Heat could offer Quentin Richardson’s expiring $9.4M contract. …
    …3. CHICAGO: Straight up for Kirk Hinrich…”
    http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2009/11/18/where-might-monta-ellis-end-up-let-me-take-a-few-wild-guesses-philly-miami-memphis/

    Warriors draft: The case for Jrue Holiday (final argument)
    POSTED BY TIM KAWAKAMI ON JUNE 25TH, 2009 AT 7:35 AM | CATEGORIZED AS AT-LARGE
    “* Best option: UCLA G Jrue Holiday, who is the final case.
    A team that wants to get better wants a tall PG like Holiday (6-3, with Ben Howland-coached toughness), who has a lot of room to grown, who likes to play defense, and who could lead a team in a year or two. Kind of like Russell Westbrook last year, who was the off-guard with Collison at UCLA, left school early, and zoomed to the fourth pick, taken by Oklahoma City, and is now a potential future star PG. Let me expand on the way I put it in the column:
    -Other than No. 1 pick Blake Griffin and possibly Ricky Rubio, Holiday is the player in this draft who fits best both with the Warriors’ current Nelson/Ellis power base (because Holiday can defend 2-guards Ellis can’t and can run the point alonside Ellis if Ellis will let him);”
    http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2009/06/25/warriors-draft-the-case-for-jrue-holiday-final-argument/

  • Whack-A-Dub

    Why do we even have cohan or rowell…why is stern letting them be owners of a franchise that is the definiton of a faliure. No all-star in a decade. One playoff appearance in 16 years. it’s your f*cking team, Stern. F*cking do something about it.

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